2023-24 Roster Thread 3: We Three Flyers

[Redpath]

There were no easy excuses to pass on him, no idea what you're talking about there.

You also have no idea what Tortorella's wishes were. The guy is too f***ing lazy to even coach, I doubt he formed any firm opinion on the draft. You're just wishcasting now. Making shit up.

Your invented fantasy flies in the face off the hard fact that everything they've done has catered to him. Your position isn't tenable.

There of course were easy excuses to pass on him, as we saw those excuses play out on the draft floor right before our pick.

“You have no idea what Tortotella’s wishes are?” Then please, never insinuate you know what Tortorella wishes for when you repeat your “Tortorella hates skill” complaint inevitably again.

The most pivotal, long term decision of the offseason goes against the conventional belief of what Tortorella hates. That you can play dumb about that fact is to cater to your fantasies.

 

[Tripod]

Wait, THE DEFENDER is now pimping a guy because he was Montreal #11th best prospect in 2021?

Can't make this shit up.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Any hockey Canada news yet ?

ASF said on his podcast as far the NHL’s end goes it’s in legal posturing with the NHLPA right now. If the NHL suspends players the NHLPA is gonna fight it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There of course were easy excuses to pass on him, as we saw those excuses play out on the draft floor right before our pick.

“You have no idea what Tortotella’s wishes are?” Then please, never insinuate you know what Tortorella wishes for when you repeat your “Tortorella hates skill” complaint inevitably again.

The most pivotal, long term decision of the offseason goes against the conventional belief of what Tortorella hates. That you can play dumb about that fact is to cater to your fantasies.

Your one pivotal event is an outlier. They've taken many actions that go otherwise. That's the only contrary choice. You'll see.

Tortorella has told us he hates skill. He's made it very clear. He hasn't made it very clear that he didn't want them to draft Michkov. He didn't make any thoughts known in any way. It isn't comparable.

 

[deadhead]

Wait, THE DEFENDER is now pimping a guy because he was Montreal #11th best prospect in 2021?

Can't make this shit up.

"Pimping him"? Come on, man, saying he might end up a solid bottom six forward isn't exactly fluffing a prospect!
He's a limited player, but within those limitations Poehling has upside,
For a team with no cap or cashflow constraints, he's a cheap gamble.

 

[tnfrs]

Rumors out of Anaheim that Carlsson will get nine games to show if he can play this season in the show. If he comes up short, he'll be going to their minor league affiliate. Personally, I'd send him back home to finish out the season. We'll just have to see what kind of seasons Bedard and Fantilli have but the best deal for the long term growth of an eighteen year old might be what thee Flyers have going with Matvei. Let him marinate for a year or two and then have him come over when he's fully physically mature. Then let him roll.

ya its crazy some of these guys have already been playing pro for a year and for years before that theyve been playing for junior teams that usually arent their hometown teams and then as soon as theyre adults they ship out to NA and theres even more hockey. and younger players have evenmore expectations waiting for them, another year helps cool off that post draft hype. and theres probably nothing worse for a kid's confidence than playing 9 games because you know that ones probably on you.

 

[Redpath]

Your one pivotal event is an outlier. They've taken many actions that go otherwise. That's the only contrary choice. You'll see.

Tortorella has told us he hates skill. He's made it very clear. He hasn't made it very clear that he didn't want them to draft Michkov. He didn't make any thoughts known in any way. It isn't comparable.

The “one contrary choice” also happens to be exponentially more important and long-term thinking for the Flyers than anything else you could complain about this summer.

Your second paragraph is laughable. “Tortotella hates skills, but we have no idea of his thoughts on drafting an undersized skilled forward with alleged character and defensive issues.” In all other scenarios, you’d be claiming that Torts wants Michkov-types out of hockey. Now you’re feigning ignorance.

 

[Tripod]

"Pimping him"? Come on, man, saying he might end up a solid bottom six forward isn't exactly fluffing a prospect!
He's a limited player, but within those limitations Poehling has upside,
For a team with no cap or cashflow constraints, he's a cheap gamble.

YOU are the one thinking him being Mtl's #11 prospect in 2021 has relevance to the guy we signed. If not, why post it?

Oh I know why. DEFEND!!

 

[Beef Invictus]

The “one contrary choice” also happens to be exponentially more important and long-term thinking for the Flyers than anything else you could complain about this summer.

Your second paragraph is laughable. “Tortotella hates skills, but we have no idea of his thoughts on drafting an undersized skilled forward with alleged character and defensive issues.” In all other scenarios, you’d be claiming that Torts wants Michkov-types out of hockey. Now you’re feigning ignorance.

Well since he has told us he thinks guys like him are bad for the game, what else are we to think?

I'm unsure why you're at war with reality on this. Believe the things these people do and say. Don't ignore their bodies of work and focus on one outlier scenario and declare that is the true real Flyers, not all the other stuff they've done which strongly matches what they always do.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Well since he has told us he thinks guys like him are bad for the game, what else are we to think?

I'm unsure why you're at war with reality on this. Believe the things these people do and say. Don't ignore their bodies of work and focus on one outlier scenario and declare that is the true real Flyers, not all the other stuff they've done which strongly matches what they always do.

dont worry he will learn soon enuf when Torts rolls out a team of old grinders oddly without flash/skill.

 

[Redpath]

Well since he has told us he thinks guys like him are bad for the game, what else are we to think?

I'm unsure why you're at war with reality on this. Believe the things these people do and say. Don't ignore their bodies of work and focus on one outlier scenario and declare that is the true real Flyers, not all the other stuff they've done which strongly matches what they always do.

Torts has told us that guys like Michkov are bad for the game, and then the Flyers went and drafted Michkov anyway. That is not "building around Tortorella." It is strange how you can claim that the Flyers are building around Tortorella, yet inexplicably decided to ignore him only on the largest, most consequential decision of the franchise's direction that is diametrically opposed to his known beliefs. How can that be?

I am believing the things people do. Specifically, the most important, long-term thinking decision the Flyers did this summer, which far, far, far outweighs in importance the short-term depth signings that "appeased" Tortorella.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts has told us that guys like Michkov are bad for the game, and then the Flyers went and drafted Michkov anyway. That is not "building around Tortorella." It is strange how you can claim that the Flyers are building around Tortorella, yet inexplicably decided to ignore him only on the largest, most consequential decision of the franchise's direction that is diametrically opposed to his known beliefs. How can that be?

I am believing the things people do. Specifically, the most important, long-term thinking decision the Flyers did this summer, which far, far, far outweighs in importance the short-term depth signings that "appeased" Tortorella.

How come you're ignoring everything else they did to focus on one single action?

How do you explain all the catering to Tortorella? How do you explain decisions with long-term impact, catering to Tortorella? That happened. That you have to ignore all that stuff seems problematic, doesn't it?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

How come you're ignoring everything else they did to focus on one single action?

How do you explain all the catering to Tortorella? How do you explain decisions with long-term impact, catering to Tortorella? That happened. That you have to ignore all that stuff seems problematic, doesn't it?

the hilarous part is these guys think Torts wont change how MM plays when he gets here..

 

[Redpath]

How come you're ignoring everything else they did to focus on one single action?

How do you explain all the catering to Tortorella? How do you explain decisions with long-term impact, catering to Tortorella? That happened. That you have to ignore all that stuff seems problematic, doesn't it?

Ignoring? I just mentioned the short-term signings (Staal, Poehling, Hathaway, etc.) in my last post. The things that are being done to cater to Tortorella are far, far, far less important than the major thing done in spite of Tortorella.

You still haven't answered why Tortorella's wishes were ignored on the most major decision of the off-season and long-term. Why do you think that was?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ignoring? I just mentioned the short-term signings (Staal, Poehling, Hathaway, etc.) in my last post. The things that are being done to cater to Tortorella are far, far, far less important than the major thing done in spite of Tortorella.

You still haven't answered why Tortorella's wishes were ignored on the most major decision of the off-season and long-term. Why do you think that was?

You're forgetting that they are choosing to hold onto players with longer contracts instead of shipping them out.

I haven't ignored it. Please provide Tortorella's quote proving he did not want Michkov and they went against his wishes. Yes yes, I know, now you'll mention how it's weird that I believe the things he's actually said while not believing this thing you've made up.

 

[Redpath]

You're forgetting that they are choosing to hold onto players with longer contracts instead of shipping them out.

I haven't ignored it. Please provide Tortorella's quote proving he did not want Michkov and they went against his wishes. Yes yes, I know, now you'll mention how it's weird that I believe the things he's actually said while not believing this thing you've made up.

Yes, we've already covered this. You are eager to sell low on Laughton + co. to achieve an arbitrary amount of "minimum draft picks" acquired in Year Zero and are willingly swallowing Jonesy's propaganda leaks to confirm your bias.

You yourself have admitted that Tortorella hates skill and thinks its bad for the game. Why would a hyper-talented, Michigan-scoring prodigy not fit into that mindset of Tortorella hating skill? You're bouncing from generalized "Torts hates skilled players and thinks they're bad for the game" platitudes to "I need an exact quote of Torts denouncing Michkov as proof that he thinks skilled players are bad for the game." Your argument is untenable.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Choosing to hypothetically (an assumption) sell low on vanilla secondary pieces instead of prioritizing top end draft position.

Rebuild lol. Flyers gunna Flyer.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

 

[tnfrs]

Choosing to hypothetically (an assumption) sell low on vanilla secondary pieces instead of prioritizing top end draft position.

Rebuild lol. Flyers gunna Flyer.

briere was trying to move up to draft michkov this year but nobody was budging, i have no doubt in my mind he'll try to do the same this year if he feels strongly enough about anybody in 2024 and itll be easier especially if we still have assets. too many things have to go perfect for us to finish outside 7th again this year and too many teams have improved so i wouldnt worry about draft position right now. worry about it in 2025 when Misa and Hagens are up, 2024 is not the year to be worried about a top 5 pick, its really not. I think Gavin McKenna is 2026 and he looks like Bedard and McDavid all rolled into one. 2024 is not the one.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, we've already covered this. You are eager to sell low on Laughton + co. to achieve an arbitrary amount of "minimum draft picks" acquired in Year Zero and are willingly swallowing Jonesy's propaganda leaks to confirm your bias.

It's all downside to claim a hard date they don't believe in. Setting the team up for failure should have been a thing immediately corrected if it wasn't meant sincerely. On top of that their actions confirm it. Why trade the valuable players when you think you'll need them? Why not cater to the coach you made face of the franchise when you believe he will be here when it turns around? They aren't thinking long-term at all.

Yes. I am indeed eager to see the rebuild begin on a proper timeline. I'm tired of half measures and wasting talent. I'm tired of the same thing over and over.

You yourself have admitted that Tortorella hates skill and thinks its bad for the game. Why would a hyper-talented, Michigan-scoring prodigy not fit into that mindset of Tortorella hating skill?

Prove Tortorella was running the draft. That he even cared enough to provide any real say. He couldn't even be bothered to show up

Why are they catering to him in literally every other thing they've done? Why do you have tunnel vision on this one single thing he ended up being detached from?

You're bouncing from generalized "Torts hates skilled players and thinks they're bad for the game" platitudes to "I need an exact quote of Torts denouncing Michkov as proof that he thinks skilled players are bad for the game." Your argument is untenable.

Look man you're the one making specific claims about Tortorella without proof. I'm sorry that Tortorella said and did the things he said and did, and that's why I make that claim. It's not my claim, it's Tortorella's own. Maybe you should try believing him and stop making up deadheadesque fanfiction about him to pretend everything is different. You're clinging to one action and ignoring everything else. If an addict drinks for five straight days, most people wouldn't look to one sober moment six days prior to say "hey it's fine." That's the equivalent of what you're doing.

 

[Cody Webster]

Yes, we've already covered this. You are eager to sell low on Laughton + co. to achieve an arbitrary amount of "minimum draft picks" acquired in Year Zero and are willingly swallowing Jonesy's propaganda leaks to confirm your bias.

You yourself have admitted that Tortorella hates skill and thinks its bad for the game. Why would a hyper-talented, Michigan-scoring prodigy not fit into that mindset of Tortorella hating skill? You're bouncing from generalized "Torts hates skilled players and thinks they're bad for the game" platitudes to "I need an exact quote of Torts denouncing Michkov as proof that he thinks skilled players are bad for the game." Your argument is untenable.

Sell low on Laughton? Weren't they offered at least a first rounder for him? Someone should have packed his bags and dropped him off at the airport for that deal. As a rebuilding team, that's a deal you take every time, but they aren't truly rebuilding like they say they are

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Look, we all get carried away sometimes. “Sell low on Laughton” given the credibly reported offer is not a framing I would choose.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Well since he has told us he thinks guys like him are bad for the game, what else are we to think?

I'm unsure why you're at war with reality on this. Believe the things these people do and say. Don't ignore their bodies of work and focus on one outlier scenario and declare that is the true real Flyers, not all the other stuff they've done which strongly matches what they always do.

where is this coming from?

 

[tnfrs]

Sell low on Laughton? Weren't they offered at least a first rounder for him? Someone should have packed his bags and dropped him off at the airport for that deal. As a rebuilding team, that's a deal you take every time, but they aren't truly rebuilding like they say they are

guaranteed it wasnt a straight up 1 for 1 offer of a 1st round pick for laughton, it was probably packaged with a contract we didnt want, sometimes the best move is no move but if you can show me something concrete about a 1 for 1 deal Ill eat my hat here

 

[ponder719]

guaranteed it wasnt a straight up 1 for 1 offer of a 1st round pick for laughton, it was probably packaged with a contract we didnt want, sometimes the best move is no move but if you can show me something concrete about a 1 for 1 deal Ill eat my hat here

That's not a risky offer for you to make. By their very nature, trade rumors are not concrete. The report was from Frank Seravalli, on his podcast; if you want to know more, you'll need to look that up, but here's a tweet reiterating the details he mentioned: