2023-24 Roster Thread 2: The Days Get Longer Edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,486
171,190
Armored Train
Tough to follow that strategy when the FO insists on "being competitive" and "aggressively reloading."
Given those constraints, I was happy with Fletcher until his 3rd season, only trading a 2nd and 3rd and Gudas away to make the playoffs.
Then he panicked and started bleeding assets as the team went into a death spiral.

Now whether they should have been trying to compete is another issue - but that's on Holmgren/Clarke/Barber who opposed any sort of rebuilding, and Hextall, who blew his window of opportunity when Snider approved a rebuild.

Fletcher was the front office. He could have taken control, fired all those people, and done what he wanted. He wanted the arrangement they had. And now everyone in the org is used to having influence they shouldn't have, so this team is f***ed long-term.
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
7,249
7,516
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
Fletcher was the front office. He could have taken control, fired all those people, and done what he wanted. He wanted the arrangement they had. And now everyone in the org is used to having influence they shouldn't have, so this team is f***ed long-term.
Fletcher never could have taken control like that. Doing what the Dinos wanted was what got Fletcher the job. Hextall sort of did and was canned. Lombardi and the Dino advisors would have torpedoed Fletcher the same way that they did Hextall.
 

BrindamoursNose

Registered User
Oct 14, 2008
20,395
14,544
Fletcher was the front office. He could have taken control, fired all those people, and done what he wanted. He wanted the arrangement they had. And now everyone in the org is used to having influence they shouldn't have, so this team is f***ed long-term.

Remember when Hextall did that then he got fired, people made up stuff about his draft board, and said he was mean to alumni?

I membaaaa
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,486
171,190
Armored Train
Fletcher never could have taken control like that. Doing what the Dinos wanted was what got Fletcher the job. Hextall sort of did and was canned. Lombardi and the Dino advisors would have torpedoed Fletcher the same way that they did Hextall.

If Fletcher had a scrap of fortitude he would not have had a hard time telling Scott "hey, Hextall wasn't the problem. These guys were. You want to win, they gotta go." Lord knows they agreed with everything else Hextall did, as they changed nothing. And he had ample power But that's not who he is, and he wanted things to be as they are.
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
7,249
7,516
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
If Fletcher had a scrap of fortitude he would not have had a hard time telling Scott "hey, Hextall wasn't the problem. These guys were. You want to win, they gotta go." Lord knows they agreed with everything else Hextall did, as they changed nothing. And he had ample power But that's not who he is, and he wanted things to be as they are.
Maybe you can but I can't see Scott agreeing with anything that Fletcher would propose that the Dinos opposed. It has been reported that Fletcher didn't want to hire Tortorella but the Dinos did. Scott signed on for Coach Torts and here we are and Fletcher is job hunting.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,486
171,190
Armored Train
Maybe you can but I can't see Scott agreeing with anything that Fletcher would propose that the Dinos opposed. It has been reported that Fletcher didn't want to hire Tortorella but the Dinos did. Scott signed on for Coach Torts and here we are and Fletcher is job hunting.

That was after a while of failure though. And if Scott refuses, then resign and save your reputation.

Fletcher's failure was amazingly comprehensive. Encompassing every possible front.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,050
22,221
I think the reason Fletcher panicked after 2020-21 is that he was hired to "aggressively reload," so he doubles down by dumping Ghost and Voracek and adding Ellis and Risto. When he saw that it wasn't working, he was in a tight spot, if he tells Scott they have to rebuild, the Dinos get him fired, if he tries to keep them competitive, it's going to be an exercise in futility, once the injuries piled up. So he tries to walk the tightrope of "aggressive reload," take one step back but show they can still compete in a year or two. At this point he's just trying to hold onto his job and crossing his fingers.

That's why Hilferty embracing the "rebuild" matters, it takes the pressure off Briere to make short sighted moves to keep his job.
He's probably got 3 years of grace, then he'll be judged how the 2026-27 team looks, if it's young and competitive with a lot of upside, he'll have bought a couple more years to finish the job.
 

renberg

Registered User
Dec 31, 2003
7,249
7,516
Lewes Delaware
forums.hfboards.com
I think the reason Fletcher panicked after 2020-21 is that he was hired to "aggressively reload," so he doubles down by dumping Ghost and Voracek and adding Ellis and Risto. When he saw that it wasn't working, he was in a tight spot, if he tells Scott they have to rebuild, the Dinos get him fired, if he tries to keep them competitive, it's going to be an exercise in futility, once the injuries piled up. So he tries to walk the tightrope of "aggressive reload," take one step back but show they can still compete in a year or two. At this point he's just trying to hold onto his job and crossing his fingers.
Your overall analysis is probably spot on. The problem with Fletcher and these moves was not that they were made. The trades were fine; the returns were not, which led to additional moves being made that also fell apart. Whether it was his view of the assets given up/returned or those of the scouts, his errors merely compounded themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BernieParent

dragonoffrost

It'll be a cold day...
Sponsor
Feb 15, 2019
9,006
10,018
Hell
That was after a while of failure though. And if Scott refuses, then resign and save your reputation.

Fletcher's failure was amazingly comprehensive. Encompassing every possible front.
I've said that before and got told no one would resign from an NHL GM job
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
7,170
7,894
I'm going to venture to guess that Fletcher made at least 500k plus a year for being the GM. If you don't have the moxie to tell upper management the truth at risk of being fired you can f*** off.

Fletcher sucks, period.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,050
22,221
All this power the Dino's wielded over Fletch....yet now they will have no say despite every one of them in the same positions.

Huh.
Scott had no clue, he needed Barber to tell him what to do.
The Dino's didn't have authority due to their position (except Holmgren, who hired Fletcher when he was President), but b/c Scott deferred to their judgement.
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
130,486
171,190
Armored Train
Scott had no clue, he needed Barber to tell him what to do.
The Dino's didn't have authority due to their position (except Holmgren, who hired Fletcher when he was President), but b/c Scott deferred to their judgement.

Hilferty has no clue, except that he loves the 70s teams and wants to "build in their spirit."

Yeah, that's not ominous at all. Nope.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,050
22,221
I’m old enough to remember when Hilferty being a “tenacious” Flyers fan meant that he probably looked at advanced stats and things like that.

Welp, that was wrong but that’s just par for the course when things are fabricated in one’s brain in order to cope with the current state of the franchise.
If you ran the Flyers, you'd give lip service to alumni and past successes, you're marketing to your fans, a sizeable proportion of which are in their 50s and 60s (even if the kids go, Daddy buys the STs).

Doesn't mean Hilferty actually listens to the alumni, there's not a single credible report that any of the Dinos have actually talked with Hilferty concerning the team.
 

Columbus Hockey Dad

Registered User
Oct 30, 2018
1,045
1,502
wants to "build in their spirit."
Lol...what does that even mean? It's the same as their other marketing language...build the right way. What is "the right way?" If you want to blame them for something, blame them for being purposefully vague, and filled with marketing research buzz phrases. It means absolutely nothing. What matters is what they do this summer. Let's wait and see.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
79,242
87,026
Nova Scotia
If you ran the Flyers, you'd give lip service to alumni and past successes, you're marketing to your fans, a sizeable proportion of which are in their 50s and 60s (even if the kids go, Daddy buys the STs).

Doesn't mean Hilferty actually listens to the alumni, there's not a single credible report that any of the Dinos have actually talked with Hilferty concerning the team.
Can you please post all the reports of Scott listening to the Dino's in his first few months of being in charge. Or Fletch.
 

Hollywood Cannon

I'm Away From My Desk
Jul 17, 2007
88,305
160,647
South Jersey
If you ran the Flyers, you'd give lip service to alumni and past successes, you're marketing to your fans, a sizeable proportion of which are in their 50s and 60s (even if the kids go, Daddy buys the STs).

Doesn't mean Hilferty actually listens to the alumni, there's not a single credible report that any of the Dinos have actually talked with Hilferty concerning the team.
The point was that him being a fan somehow was made to be some big deal about how he understands the game on a deep level turned out to be wrong.

That’s what happens when you make things up in your head that have no basis in reality.

Again, the fact that we haven’t heard from any of them doesn’t mean anything. We didn’t hear from them (or Scott) before. I’ve said this countless times.

P.S. This stance is VERY ironic considering we had a guy saying that he’s a tenacious fan which was, in fact, lip service.
 
Last edited:

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,050
22,221
Can you please post all the reports of Scott listening to the Dino's in his first few months of being in charge. Or Fletch.
Fletch was hired by Holmgren and he was adamant about it being a consensus process (implying he wouldn't lock out the advisors the way Hextall did).
Barber was Scott's personal advisor, that didn't come out until later, but it probably began soon after he was hired, or at least after Holmgren (who was President), left the scene.

When Hilferty talks about a collaborative process, he has also been clear that Briere has final say on personnel, Jones on evaluating Briere, Torts has major input as the HC, and all three will work with him and Camillo to ensure that the business side is in the loop in terms of what they're trying to do on the ops side (i.e. so there's a consistent marketing message). No mention of advisors in ANY role.

Briere may end up an abject failure, but it won't be because he was pressured to win now or any other strategy, he's been given the authority to run this rebuild in the way he sees fit. He can cross Jones, but only if he's right more often than he's wrong (i.e. failure is not a viable result).
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
193,275
43,648
I would be surprised if Hilferty was involved much, if at all, with the alumni. Maybe there's some right now because he's been so visible, so he's been gladhanding them, but that involvement is going to go to Valerie and Jonsey. If Clarke, or Barber, or whoever come crying to him, he's probably going to tell them to f*** all the way off and that he doesn't have time for their shit.

Running the Flyers as chairman on a full-time basis, whatever that is, was not the central reason Comcast hired him. His job, regardless of whether the right or wrong decisions were made about who or how the process was done, is exactly what he did. The Flyers as a business, is still a business that will still run itself. This was an easy project for him to begin with, which is what new hires in upper level corporate do when they're new. And he didn't truly do anything except do the media tour and greenlight the infrastructure, that other than Jonesy, technically, was already in place. Probably the biggest thing on his plate right now, with regard to the Flyers, lies within his expertise within the health and insurance sectors, and he likely has a central role into making sure all the ridiculous medical issues involving the franchise, which have made them legally liable, are resolved. Other than that, they have a stated plan of a multi-year process, so unless dysfunction among the triumvirate or whatever surfaces, there's going to be nothing from him for a few years and will now likely only be involved when there's an easy opportunity to look good, or resolve said conflict.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad