2023-24 Roster Thread 1: Entering the Starting Gate

[deadhead]

The rebuild is starting this summer, like a lot of teams, they floundered for a few seasons before reality set in. "Breaking up is so very hard to do . .. "
York and Brink instead of Boldy or Caufield.
York is our best D-man, already a solid top 4 with #2 potential. That's pretty good.
Brink? Led the NCAA in scoring at 20 years old. Some questions remain. We'll see.

 

[tucson83]

No no no. We aren’t moving to the direction you’d like to take it.

Briere, the POS that he is was around during Fletcher’s last while as GM. Boy genius was right there. He doesn’t get an excuse when said GM was touted as being collaborative.

The point is. They didn’t do shit to even try to move into a better spot for this draft. Not one damn thing. Kept on with your beautiful dreams of not having to do so.

You think they are going to do so for next season? When hell freezes over. I am just wondering though, did you enjoy how the chips fell yesterday? It was your approach after all. Like I said, it’s been a team for a long time now for f***ing morons living in the past.

we tank and we get 5 or 6th pick, that's fine with you?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

we tank and we get 5 or 6th pick, that's fine with you?

They try to win and they pick 5th, that's fine with you?

 

[FlyerNutter]

we tank and we get 5 or 6th pick, that's fine with you?

Sure.

This idea that tanking for only one year is the magical solution is the problem. You'd think the Flyers would actually have learned that from drafting Patrick would you not?

Question for you though. Is the goal of this organization to win? To build a winning product? Or is it to ensure a Flyer brand is maintained. Their approach has been tried for many a winter, but you still believe in it. Why is that?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Draft picks are overrated in trades, picks in the late teens and 20s are worth half of those from #6-15.
They have value, but not to the extent they're going to turn a franchise around, they're more useful for obtaining solid depth. The solid prospect near to the NHL (thus lower risk), is as good or better.

If you don't blow those high picks with Patricks and Pitkanen's, that's where you get the 3 or 4 players you need for your core, add some complementary players from acquired draft picks and prospects, and hit on a couple picks after the 1st round.

If you just depend on high draft picks, it takes a long time to accumulate enough to make a difference, Edmonton being a good example, and by then you're paying your high picks big salaries.

They are not.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The rebuild is starting this summer, like a lot of teams, they floundered for a few seasons before reality set in. "Breaking up is so very hard to do . .. "
York and Brink instead of Boldy or Caufield.
York is our best D-man, already a solid top 4 with #2 potential. That's pretty good.
Brink? Led the NCAA in scoring at 20 years old. Some questions remain. We'll see.

No it isn't.

 

[Starat327]

Sure.

This idea that tanking for only one year is the magical solution is the problem. You'd think the Flyers would actually have learned that from drafting Patrick would you not?

Question for you though. Is the goal of this organization to win? To build a winning product? Or is it to ensure a Flyer brand is maintained. Their approach has been tried for many a winter, but you still believe in it. Why is that?

If you aren't loyal to the orange and black attack you can get the hell out jack.

 

[ponder719]

If you aren't loyal to the orange and black attack you can get the hell out jack.

The current Orange and Black are going to give me a heart attack, and I will be out, jack.

 

[freakydallas13]

Team trades a boatload of assets to "compete" and ends up being being the 4th and 7th worst teams in the leauge over 2 seasons: "This is fine, we need to fix the culture"

Team could have traded away roster players to gain assets, and in the process draft even higher than they would have in the previous scenario: "This is unacceptable, I am disgusted this team would ever even think of tanking"

This is what being a contrarian does to your brain kids, friends don't let friends be contrarians.

No it isn't.

The "rebuild" is starting this summer.

 

[flyersnorth]

Not really sure what they get out of Couturier & Atkinson next year. The odds would probably trend against them being real impactful next year given their age, injuries, & time off.

Atkinson’s gonna be 34 at the start of next season. He’s already fighting nature at that age then add the extra layer of a serious injury & missing a year. I’d be surprised if he’s anything more than a veteran body that likely gets overplayed next year to be honest.

Agreed. He's getting older, and just went an entire year without playing hockey. I still think he makes the team better - but to what degree I don't know.

Maybe his addition is offset by moving Hayes.

The rebuild is starting this summer, like a lot of teams, they floundered for a few seasons before reality set in. "Breaking up is so very hard to do . .. "
York and Brink instead of Boldy or Caufield.
York is our best D-man, already a solid top 4 with #2 potential. That's pretty good.
Brink? Led the NCAA in scoring at 20 years old. Some questions remain. We'll see.

Isn't this the Flyers mentality in a nutshell, though?

"Why take the *most* talented player when we can get a BOGO on two pretty decent players?"

 

[deadhead]

Boldy was the most talented player, I'd much rather have York and Brink than Caufield, who I see as a one trick pony.

If York turns out to be a #2 D-man, he's as valuable as Boldy, top D-men have a bigger impact than top forwards.

If you win with youth, fine, it means you have more young talent than you thought, a good thing.
If you win with veterans, that's a dead end for a rebuild.
Flyers were led last year by TK, Tippett, Frost, Cates, Farabee and York.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Which is why Scott, CF and the Advisors are gone.

There wasn't much to move at the TDL, hard to make moves with players with term, it's done, but not on a regular basis - the best TDL bait are players in the last year of their contract. Only one we had was JVR, and for some reason he didn't attract a lot of interest.

The real window of opportunity was 2018, but Holmgren nixed that.
The next window was last spring, but Scott and CF nixed that.

The next two years the Flyers will be open for business, but Briere shouldn't panic and just trade players to look like he's doing something - smart GMs wait until the right deal presents itself.

Tanking is so unpredictable, look at Zona, they tried as hard as Chicago to tank, and ended up with #6.
Just focus on garnering assets and getting younger, and let the chips fall where they may.

The advisors are still here, they haven't been fired, so let's not assume the flyers will rightly fire those bums, Arizona had more talent on the ice than Chicago did, they didn't blow it all up like Chicago did, so they did not tank

 

[Beef Invictus]

The advisors are still here, they haven't been fired, so let's not assume the flyers will rightly fire those bums, Arizona had more talent on the ice than Chicago did, they didn't blow it all up like Chicago did, so they did not tank

The whole management group sans Fletcher and Scott (who didn't do anything anyway) remains fully intact. This team's rebuild has to start with management first before they have a prayer of fixing the roster. The rebuild hasn't begun.

 

[FLYguy3911]

@Magua @FLYguy3911

Someone on Twitter proposed: Konecny to the Leafs for Roni Hirvonen (young defenseman), Nick Robertson and a 1st this year (Boston's). I don't know why I'm posting it - just found it interesting. I would rather trade him for Reichel or draft picks, but then I remember the Crisco dirigible.

Hirvonen is a forward. Unless they meant Niemela. I liked both as late 1-early 2nd round draft picks in their draft years. Can't say I've tracked their progress much since but they look like solid middle of the lineup bets. Niemela, projects a bit better, would be preferable. I was a big Robertson fan but he's missed so much dev time recently, he should be viewed as a wildcard and not a headlining piece. Chuck Fletcher would have done worse, but I imagine there are better deals out there. I'd shoot for a pick in the teens as a headliner.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Hirvonen is a forward. Unless they meant Niemela. I liked both as late 1-early 2nd round draft picks in their draft years. Can't say I've tracked their progress much since but they look like solid middle of the lineup bets. Niemela, projects a bit better, would be preferable. I was a big Robertson fan but he's missed so much dev time recently, he should be viewed as a wildcard and not a headlining piece. Chuck Fletcher would have done worse, but I imagine there are better deals out there. I'd shoot for a pick in the teens as a headliner.

It was Hirvonen - I was wrong about his position. Despite the numbers, the game tape, the graphs, etc.

 

[deadhead]

The advisors are still here, they haven't been fired, so let's not assume the flyers will rightly fire those bums, Arizona had more talent on the ice than Chicago did, they didn't blow it all up like Chicago did, so they did not tank

Chicago still had, after the TDL:
Athanasiou, Raddysh, T Johnson, Toews, Dickinson (#29), Kurashev, S Jones,
prospects: Reichel (19) Korchinski D (18)
extra picks next three years: (3) 1st, (5) 2nd, (2) 3rd
They're actually a dreadful team in that while they've accumulated draft picks, they have almost zero young talent - which means Bedard will have no help for years, waiting for those other draft picks to arrive in the NHL (2-4 years from now). If they go into free agency, any big money guy is likely to be on his downslope by the time this team is competitive.

Zona, on the other hand, is building a solid young core as well as accumulating draft picks:
extra picks (1) 1st, (6) 2nds, (6) 3rds
Keller (24), Schmaltz (26), Maccelli (22), Crouse (25), Hayton (22), Fischer (25), McBain (23), Guenther (19),
Moser (22), Valimaki (24), Soderstrom (21), Kolyachonok (23)
prospects: Geekie (19),

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Chicago still had, after the TDL:
Athanasiou, Raddysh, T Johnson, Toews, Dickinson (#29), Kurashev, S Jones,
prospects: Reichel (19) Korchinski D (18)
extra picks next three years: (3) 1st, (5) 2nd, (2) 3rd
They're actually a dreadful team in that while they've accumulated draft picks, they have almost zero young talent - which means Bedard will have no help for years, waiting for those other draft picks to arrive in the NHL (2-4 years from now). If they go into free agency, any big money guy is likely to be on his downslope by the time this team is competitive.

Zona, on the other hand, is building a solid young core as well as accumulating draft picks:
extra picks (1) 1st, (6) 2nds, (6) 3rds
Keller (24), Schmaltz (26), Maccelli (22), Crouse (25), Hayton (22), Fischer (25), McBain (23), Guenther (19),
Moser (22), Valimaki (24), Soderstrom (21), Kolyachonok (23)
prospects: Geekie (19),

So like I said, Arizona didn't go and tank like Chicago lol

 

[Rebels57]

I would not be surprised to see Atkinson traded back to Columbus with Hayes.

After signing Gaudreau, they are going to want to be competitive sooner rather than later. There are already the Hayes rumors. Atkinson loves/is loved by Columbus. They have the cap space to absorb and fill out the roster, especially if the Flyers retain on both and/or take by Roslovic (as rumored).

 

[DAVIDE1333]

I would not be surprised to see Atkinson traded back to Columbus with Hayes.

After signing Gaudreau, they are going to want to be competitive sooner rather than later. There are already the Hayes rumors. Atkinson loves/is loved by Columbus. They have the cap space to absorb and fill out the roster, especially if the Flyers retain on both and/or take by Roslovic (as rumored).

If Columbus considers themselves competing with the addition of those two and the Flyers eat contract, can we get something decent in return? (I'm not expecting the #3 pick)

 

[deadhead]

So like I said, Arizona didn't go and tank like Chicago lol

Arizona has been tanking for years, just didn't land that top pick.
Jersey jumped ahead of them last year so they ended up with #3 and Cooley.
Made the playoffs once in 11 years.
Domi #12, Perlini #12, D Strome #3, Keller #7, Joseph #23, Hayton #5, Soderstrom #11, Guenther #9, Cooley #3, ??? #6

 

[Magua]

I would not be surprised to see Atkinson traded back to Columbus with Hayes.

If that were to happen, I don't think that's a summer move. They have way too much cap space to blow it on those two, and the Flyers aren't eating both of those contracts. Atkinson would have to be at full cost. That feels like a move where nothing comes to fruition in the summer and/or Atkinson plays and looks reasonably okay. But cap space is valuable.

 

[bennysflyers16]

We are already going through the agony of a rebuild without the rebuild.

Ya, could you imagine being awful and missing the playoffs multiple years in a row, that would SUCK !!

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

It’s actually funny thinking about how the only reason we aren’t picking as high as we did last year, is because Bedard is so good that franchises decided to actively be as terrible as possible.

We are so f***ing terrible at everything.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

Arizona has been tanking for years, just didn't land that top pick.
Jersey jumped ahead of them last year so they ended up with #3 and Cooley.
Made the playoffs once in 11 years.
Domi #12, Perlini #12, D Strome #3, Keller #7, Joseph #23, Hayton #5, Soderstrom #11, Guenther #9, Cooley #3, ??? #6

They have a better prospect pool, and a good core starting to form, we have no core, and no hope, and have made the playoffs once in 5 years, that's not much better

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I can’t see anyway the Flyers don’t start a rebuild. They are almost forced to. If you finish around the bottom 5 two years in a row while trying to be competitive, it’s easier to just let it go at that point. I will be in the frame of mind that Briere is rebuilding until I see otherwise. That means just not Hayes or Provy gone, especially if Couts and Atkinson are coming back. They need to shed talent, aka players who help win games over 25, like TK. Dangle Hart enticingly over contenders who need a goalie. The Flyers desperately need to get a few top 4 picks over the next few years to find a 1c and a 1d. Things suddenly don’t look so bleak if we add a few top picks to picks and prospects gotten in trades, #7, Gauthier, Frost, Foerster, York, Farabee, Tippett, etc. If the Flyers don’t have a second 1st or blue chip prospect this year I will not watch them next season again