2023-24 Roster Thread 1: Entering the Starting Gate

[ponder719]

We are already going through the agony of a rebuild without the rebuild.

This team is like a kid with half a Lego kit. No matter how many ways you arrange the few blocks you have, there aren't enough pieces to make anything worthwhile out of it.

 

[Starat327]

Friendly reminder that making the playoffs in the NHL is not an accomplishment, and if that's your measure of success (unless we're talking a streak of making the playoffs every year for multiple years), you've set the bar entirely too low.

 

[ponder719]

Friendly reminder that making the playoffs in the NHL is not an accomplishment, and if that's your measure of success (unless we're talking a streak of making the playoffs every year for multiple years), you've set the bar entirely too low.

I'll go one step further, if I may. There is only one appropriate bar to set: win the whole damn thing. You can give yourselves a different amount of run-up to that bar, however many years you think it will legitimately take, but if your end goal isn't "win the Cup," in whatever time frame is reasonable, then you have no business being in sports management.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'll go one step further, if I may. There is only one appropriate bar to set: win the whole damn thing. You can give yourselves a different amount of run-up to that bar, however many years you think it will legitimately take, but if your end goal isn't "win the Cup," in whatever time frame is reasonable, then you have no business being in sports management.

"Shoot low" defines this organization perfectly in all things.

 

[Starat327]

I'll go one step further, if I may. There is only one appropriate bar to set: win the whole damn thing. You can give yourselves a different amount of run-up to that bar, however many years you think it will legitimately take, but if your end goal isn't "win the Cup," in whatever time frame is reasonable, then you have no business being in sports management.

Oh, agreed. Caveat here that aiming to win and falling short doesn't mean a failure, but if you are saying " we won" or something "is good" because of playoff appearances, this a bad evaluation.

 

[deadhead]

This team is like a kid with half a Lego kit. No matter how many ways you arrange the few blocks you have, there aren't enough pieces to make anything worthwhile out of it.

Of course not, why do you think Torts talked about a rebuild taking longer than his contract.

The key is not to make the playoffs your goal, but to focus on building a SC contender, a team that can get past the first round most years and with some luck or a hot goalie, get to the SC finals.

And that means patiently accumulating assets, building a core of a team, then when you're ready to contend, making a trade or two/sign the right FA and make your move for a 3-5 year stretch.

Next season they won't be good, but they'll be younger, clear out a lot of cap room, and the flexibility to be opportunistic on the waiver wire and trading with cap strapped teams. Meanwhile they'll have Gauthier in college, #7 in juniors, and another high pick in 2024. And hopefully they'll be able to pick up a few more picks and a couple solid prospects in trades.

 

[ponder719]

Now if only they hadn't wasted so much of this year trying to paper over the cracks and throwing assets away on players who would accidentally steal a game here and there, and then managed to dump only PATRICK BROWN AND ZACK MACEWEN at the trade deadline, we might have been able to move that timeline up a year, into one of the most star-studded drafts since the McDavid year.

Such a shame we only made one mistake...

 

[FLYguy3911]

The thing is, there is a path to contend without winning the lottery. You just have to stack shrewd, savvy moves. Draft in volume! Carolina is the blueprint. Missing several top of the lineup players and still have a legit chance at a cup this year (too bad they don't have an executive that wrote for a Flyers fan site worthy of an interview). Unfortunately this team hasn't been able to make one shrewd move in three years, much less the amount it takes to get to that level.

 

[deadhead]

Which is why Scott, CF and the Advisors are gone.

There wasn't much to move at the TDL, hard to make moves with players with term, it's done, but not on a regular basis - the best TDL bait are players in the last year of their contract. Only one we had was JVR, and for some reason he didn't attract a lot of interest.

The real window of opportunity was 2018, but Holmgren nixed that.
The next window was last spring, but Scott and CF nixed that.

The next two years the Flyers will be open for business, but Briere shouldn't panic and just trade players to look like he's doing something - smart GMs wait until the right deal presents itself.

Tanking is so unpredictable, look at Zona, they tried as hard as Chicago to tank, and ended up with #6.
Just focus on garnering assets and getting younger, and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[HeadLiceHatty]

Be careful what you ask for, you might get it.
What do you think living through a rebuild was going to be like?
NJ made the playoffs once in ten years, despite lottery luck.

They should move Hayes, Provorov, Laughton before the draft.
Foerster will start, Lycksell and Brink will get a shot in TC.
Zamula will start, Attard and Ginning will get a shot in TC.

Farabee - Couts - TK
Tippett - Frost - Atkinson
Lycksell - Cates - Foerster
Deslauriers - Desnoyers - Allison
Brink, Laczynski

??? - York - ???
Sanheim - Risto
Zamula - TDA
Seeler, Attard

Avon, Gendron, Wisdom, Andrae, Zanetti, Samson, Kolosov on the Phantoms
Gauthier, Kaplan in college.
Get a 2nd for JOB, and multiple assets after the June trades.

Wow really fun, I’m definitely watching that team next year! Please god sell the team, and deadhead you’re missing the point the majority 90% of posters wanted this fire sale to happen prior to this season, it’s obvious we’re doomed, take a good shot at a top 3 pick, winning meaningless games at the end of the year was awesome!

 

[Beef Invictus]

Of course not, why do you think Torts talked about a rebuild taking longer than his contract.

The key is not to make the playoffs your goal, but to focus on building a SC contender, a team that can get past the first round most years and with some luck or a hot goalie, get to the SC finals.

And that means patiently accumulating assets, building a core of a team, then when you're ready to contend, making a trade or two/sign the right FA and make your move for a 3-5 year stretch.

Next season they won't be good, but they'll be younger, clear out a lot of cap room, and the flexibility to be opportunistic on the waiver wire and trading with cap strapped teams. Meanwhile they'll have Gauthier in college, #7 in juniors, and another high pick in 2024. And hopefully they'll be able to pick up a few more picks and a couple solid prospects in trades.

There is absolutely no reason to believe they'll be younger. This team has firmly proven repeatedly for at least 8 years that they'll do whatever they can to avoid that.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

There is absolutely no reason to believe they'll be younger. This team has firmly proven repeatedly for at least 8 years that they'll do whatever they can to avoid that.

"Did you not see Cates, Frost, and Tippett?!"

"Yeah, they played because of injuries not out of a plan for them."

*hangs up*

 

[Beef Invictus]

"Did you not see Cates, Frost, and Tippett?!"

"Yeah, they played because of injuries not out of a plan for them."

*hangs up*

Remember when there was an open forward spot and instead of playing callups he played an extra dman?

 

[deadhead]

The thing is, there is a path to contend without winning the lottery. You just have to stack shrewd, savvy moves. Draft in volume! Carolina is the blueprint. Missing several top of the lineup players and still have a legit chance at a cup this year (too bad they don't have an executive that wrote for a Flyers fan site worthy of an interview). Unfortunately this team hasn't been able to make one shrewd move in three years, much less the amount it takes to get to that level.

Carolina didn't do it by drafting in volume, however.
All those extra picks the few couple years have contributed almost nothing (down the road they will provide some flexibility)
2019: (2) 2nds, (3) 3rds, (2) 4ths
2020: (2) 2nds
2021: no 1st, (3) 2nds, (2) 3rds
2022: no 1st, (2) 4ths
A lot of this team was in place when BrindA'mour/Waddell took over. 4 of the top 8 scorers, 2 of the top 4 D-men.
And most of the additions were low cost FAs.

Necas #12-2017
Aho #35-2015
Skechnikov #2-2018
Kotkaniemi - FA 2021 (RFA) [$6M for 1 year, then 8yr/$38M]
Jarvis #13-2020
Teravainen - trade for 2016 2nd, 2017 3rd
Noesen - FA 2021 [2yr/$1.5M]
Staal - 2012 trade
Martinook - 2021 FA [3yr/$5.4M]
Drury - #42-2018
Puljujari - trade for Puistola #73-2019
Fast - 2020 FA [3yr/$6M]
Stastny - 2022 FA [1yr/$2M]
Stepan - 2022 FA [1yr/$750K]

Skjei - traded 2020 1st
Burns (37) - 3rd-2023, Lorenz, Makiniemi (salary dump by San Jose)
Pesce - #66-2013
Slavin #120-2012
Ghost - 2025 3rd
Chatfield - 2021 FA [2yr/$1.5M]
De Haan - 2022 FA [1yr/$850K]

Andersen - 2021 FA [2yr/$9M]
Raanta - 2021 FA [2yr/$4M]
Kochetkov - #36-2019

 

[FlyerNutter]

Which is why Scott, CF and the Advisors are gone.

There wasn't much to move at the TDL, hard to make moves with players with term, it's done, but not on a regular basis - the best TDL bait are players in the last year of their contract. Only one we had was JVR, and for some reason he didn't attract a lot of interest.

The real window of opportunity was 2018, but Holmgren nixed that.
The next window was last spring, but Scott and CF nixed that.

The next two years the Flyers will be open for business, but Briere shouldn't panic and just trade players to look like he's doing something - smart GMs wait until the right deal presents itself.

Tanking is so unpredictable, look at Zona, they tried as hard as Chicago to tank, and ended up with #6.
Just focus on garnering assets and getting younger, and let the chips fall where they may.

Too hard to tank. Who believes this bullshit? Maybe with some foresight, and planning. Other teams find a way do they not?

I’m going to get quite personal.

Go f*** yourself, and anyone else that shares that belief. It’s exactly the pathetic, cowardly, and antiquated thinking that has cratered this franchise - and continues to ensure a lack of top talent.

Absolute bullshit. Flyers if they had a brain cell that wasn’t focused getting on their knees, and sucking off those associated with the Bullies could have put themselves in a position similar to Chicago.

 

[deadhead]

Too hard to tank. Who believes this bullshit? Maybe with some foresight, and planning. Other teams find a way do they not?

I’m going to get quite personal.

Go f*** yourself, and anyone else that shares that belief. It’s exactly the pathetic, cowardly, and antiquated thinking that has cratered this franchise - and continues to ensure a lack of top talent.

Absolute bullshit. Flyers if they had a brain cell that wasn’t focused getting on their knees, and sucking off those associated with the Bullies could have put themselves in a position similar to Chicago.

CBJ didn't even try to tank, and they still missed out on the top 2.
Zona was definitely trying to tank (traded their 1st pair D-men) and picked #6.
Montreal also tried to tank.

Flyers not only didn't try to tank, they weren't even trying to get younger.
That's a FO problem that's persisted for a decade.
Tanking is a fool's errand, the goal should be to get younger and deeper, if you get the right players, you have a good young team, if you get the wrong players, you tank by accident.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Remember when there was an open forward spot and instead of playing callups he played an extra dman?

repeatedly

 

[FlyerNutter]

CBJ didn't even try to tank, and they still missed out on the top 2.
Zona was definitely trying to tank (traded their 1st pair D-men) and picked #6.
Montreal also tried to tank.

Flyers not only didn't try to tank, they weren't even trying to get younger.
That's a FO problem that's persisted for a decade.
Tanking is a fool's errand, the goal should be to get younger and deeper, if you get the right players, you have a good young team, if you get the wrong players, you tank by accident.

You are full of shit. It’s not about actually trying to build a good product? It’s simply about debating.

Your horseshit beliefs, were on full display last night. If they missed on Bedard, at least they might have had a chance at one of the top 4 guys.

They didn’t even f***ing try to put themselves in a spot to do so. It’s not about trying to win is it? It’s about proving a point. A bullshit strategy, and culture can work in 2023.

A team made for f***ing morons with beliefs like that.

 

[freakydallas13]

"You won't enjoy having to go through a proper rebuild!"

Said like the last decade wasn't already a futile endeavor that accomplished nothing and was painful to watch. But sure, shill more for a "cultural" fix to this team's woes. I'm sure that will work out. Anything to avoid the dreaded "T" word, am I right?

 

[Beef Invictus]

repeatedly

Yeah, like over and over and over.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

From last night:

Lost in all of this is just another example of it doesn’t pay to tank. Anaheim and Columbus tanked and what’d they get for it?

*fartnoise.mp3*

Yes this will actually be something that’s said.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"You won't enjoy having to go through a proper rebuild!"

Said like the last decade wasn't already a futile endeavor that accomplished nothing and was painful to watch. But sure, shill more for a "cultural" fix to this team's woes. I'm sure that will work out. Anything to avoid the dreaded "T" word, am I right?

A proper rebuild would mean we at least know they're trying to build something instead of carrying on like they have since 1984.

 

[kudymen]

Yeah its gotta be really tough to tank for a team with following results in seasons they proclaimed were just a piece or two away

2022 Cup winner: 56 regular season wins in their cup winning season
Team for whom it is hard to tank: 56 regular season wins in 2021-22 and 2022-23 combined

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

"You won't enjoy having to go through a proper rebuild!"

Said like the last decade wasn't already a futile endeavor that accomplished nothing and was painful to watch. But sure, shill more for a "cultural" fix to this team's woes. I'm sure that will work out. Anything to avoid the dreaded "T" word, am I right?

Don't forget that that futile decade was defended via endless and countless paragraphs as being good management up until the time where it wasn't and the new shiny toy is going to do it the right way.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Don't forget that that futile decade was defended via endless and countless paragraphs as being good management up until the time where it wasn't and the new shiny toy is going to do it the right way.

Actually as of now Fletcher didn't make a single mistake. Weird how years of flawless management has left the team crippled