Boston Bruins 2023-24 Roster and Salary Cap Discussion X

[KnightofBoston]

Trading Debrusk and Ullmark for RNH would be like trading Rask and Ryder for a less offensively talented but more defensively talented Krejci.


Do you do that deal?


seems like itll end up being a true hockey trade if it happens, where neither team really wins but both get something they feel they need


Im skeptical though that subtracting Debrusk and adding RNH helps our offense overall. Faceoffs improve so that's something

 

[bearcountry17]

You're right. He got a concussion and it changed the way he played for the worse. He didn't battle in the corners for a long time and was a less physical player on the ice because of that. However, I highly doubt that one concussion changed the way DeBrusk so much that he needed to play with both Bergeron and Marchand in order get back to scoring 20 goals a season.

Bergeron had a trailing off in his numbers in his first season coming back from his concussion following the Randy Jones hit. The season after that saw Bergeron snap back into the form he had before the concussion. DeBrusk isn't doing that. His numbers are stalling and trailing off without help from Bergeron and Marchand to set him up. On top of that, if you look at his shooting percentages, he's bottom five on the team as well as being bottom five when it comes to shots that miss the net which happens roughly 30% of the time DeBrusk shoots the puck, contested and uncontested. Like c'mon man.



Would a stale bag of cracker jacks, two signed pucks from Craig Janney, and a 7th round pick do the job? Zegras has taken a massive step back after consecutive 60+ point seasons and he appears to be on the outs with Anaheim management. There's no way an organization that desperate to turn things around would quit on a player like Zegras if something wasn't wrong.

Debrusk 9 ES goals are still 5th on the team. JVR taking his spot of the PP hurts his production but Monty put him back on last game and I don’t know why this wasn’t done sooner as the Bruins PP has been among the best in the league when Debrusk plays big minutes on it. He does almost as good a jVR on the net front but actually has the wheels to chase down and win those 50:50 pucks that wind up behind the net.

I’m not denying that Jake is a complimentary player. But he’s a very good one and I think the plan should be to acquire the best center we can get our hands on and have the best players possible to play with them. This team wingers sans Debrusk falls off big after Pasta and Marchand especially when you consider that Freddy and Zacha have a whopping 0 playoff goals in 21 games between them.

 

[UncleRico]

Debrusk 9 ES goals are still 5th on the team. JVR taking his spot of the PP hurts his production but Monty put him back on last game and I don’t know why this wasn’t done sooner as the Bruins PP has been among the best in the league when Debrusk plays big minutes on it. He does almost as good a jVR on the net front but actually has the wheels to chase down and win those 50:50 pucks that wind up behind the net.

I’m not denying that Jake is a complimentary player. But he’s a very good one and I think the plan should be to acquire the best center we can get our hands on and have the best players possible to play with them. This team wingers sans Debrusk falls off big after Pasta and Marchand especially when you consider that Freddy and Zacha have a whopping 0 playoff goals in 21 games between them.

How much are you offering Debrusk?

 

[BamBamCam]

I hope Sweeney's ask for JBD would be(in no particular order):
Detroit - Robby Fabbri , Joe Veleno, or Christian Fisher.
Calgary - Hanifin or Martin Pospisil
St Louis - Jimmy Snuggerud , Schenn or Hayes

 

[sarge88]

Trading Debrusk and Ullmark for RNH would be like trading Rask and Ryder for a less offensively talented but more defensively talented Krejci.


Do you do that deal?


seems like itll end up being a true hockey trade if it happens, where neither team really wins but both get something they feel they need


Im skeptical though that subtracting Debrusk and adding RNH helps our offense overall. Faceoffs improve so that's something

I think if JDB goes, it will be just one of a series of moves.

I think his situation is somewhat independent of other potential moves (Ullmark, Grzelcyk, Forbort, etc.), because losing him for nothing in the off season is a bigger hit than losing one of the D, as there are more quality replacement options for them in house.

Who knows where things are regarding extending him, but it doesn’t seem likely right now.

Move him for a similar forward with term or another pending UFA and futures, if possible and then use Ullmark and Beecher or similar to address the other needs.

 

[shoulders7]

Debrusk 18-19 : 68gp 27 goals 42 points
Playoffs 12gp 6 goals 8 points

Debrusk 22-23: 64gp 27 goals 50 points
Playoffs 7gp 4 goals 7 points

Now you do RNH pre McDrai

Sorry, didn’t see this earlier

RNH before McDavid arrived:
258 games, 188 pts. .73 ppg, 60 points per 82 games

RNH since McDavid joined the Oilers:
596 games, 494 pts. .83 ppg, 68 points per 82 games

Doesn’t really help your argument. A 20 point difference is a lot higher than an 8 point difference

 

[bearcountry17]

The numbers Eddie provided say otherwise over a larger sample. Maybe if you cherry pick individual years of your choice then yes.

Those numbers include many seasons where RHN was playing 3rd line C and or not often with McDrai. He had 43 points in 82 games with McDavid on the roster, he had 104 points with McDavid on the roster.

But you’re probably right playing with mid to late 30s Bergeron and Marchand gives you the same bump as playing with the prime aged best offensive 1-2 punch we’ve seen in many decades. Good call.

 

[Bruin4]

Would a stale bag of cracker jacks, two signed pucks from Craig Janney, and a 7th round pick do the job? Zegras has taken a massive step back after consecutive 60+ point seasons and he appears to be on the outs with Anaheim management. There's no way an organization that desperate to turn things around would quit on a player like Zegras if something wasn't wrong.

Im willing to wager that the 31 other GMs in the league have all inquired about the 22 year-old. I don't think their quitting on him at all. I think its a position of strength with the likes of McTavish and Carlsson there as well and Verbeek see's them as the future 1-2 down the middle, but hopefully your right and they have soured on him and the Bruins can pick him up for a bag of chips or even a stale bag of cracker jacks. lol

 

[Tbaybruin]

Hanifin isn't coming here, he will cost too much to get, and too much to keep.
Regardless of the higher salary cap next year, still have others to pay.

We would have the highest paid D in the league with no #1 C. Bad cap management for me.

 

[bearcountry17]

Sorry, didn’t see this earlier

RNH before McDavid arrived:
258 games, 188 pts. .73 ppg, 60 points per 82 games

RNH since McDavid joined the Oilers:
596 games, 494 pts. .83 ppg, 68 points per 82 games

Doesn’t really help your argument. A 20 point difference is a lot higher than an 8 point difference

I was speaking as to when RHN was playing LW with McDavid and not centering other lines. Also let’s get real, RHN outside of Mcdrai was still playing with guys like prime Taylor hall and Jordan Eberle. Are these comparably to 32 yo Krejci and Heinen/Backes or Coyle-Freddy or Poitras-Geekie or whatever Jake was playing with?

 

[EvilDead]

Debrusk 9 ES goals are still 5th on the team. JVR taking his spot of the PP hurts his production but Monty put him back on last game and I don’t know why this wasn’t done sooner as the Bruins PP has been among the best in the league when Debrusk plays big minutes on it. He does almost as good a jVR on the net front but actually has the wheels to chase down and win those 50:50 pucks that wind up behind the net.

Him being fast is great and all, but that still doesn't change the fact that he still can't hit the broadside of a barn 3/10ths of the time and is massively underperforming his expected goals total.

I’m not denying that Jake is a complimentary player. But he’s a very good one and I think the plan should be to acquire the best center we can get our hands on and have the best players possible to play with them. This team wingers sans Debrusk falls off big after Pasta and Marchand especially when you consider that Freddy and Zacha have a whopping 0 playoff goals in 21 games between them.

Well that puts the team in a bit of a pickle then doesn't it, because sans a complete DNA change that involves the Bruins moving on from a player like Ullmark and shift the bulk of the money from being invested in goalie to being invested in players in front of the goalie, you're plum shit out of luck. It's either move DeBrusk or do a DNA change in how the team is constructed which Sweeney and Neely don't want to do for some reason.

Furthermore, while Zacha's playoff performance was indeed poor, Frederic was playing an entirely different role to the one he is playing now.

More to the topic at hand though, what makes you think that getting another high end center to pair with DeBrusk fixes the problem? It's no different than the Bergeron and Marchand band aid of last year. DeBrusk needs to be able to create offense by himself.

 

[Hookslide]

What makes you think he’s not playing somewhat injured? Same with Gryz. Lindholm will probably not be 100 percent when he gets back. It’s a grind.

And that is why I stated back in training camp when everyone was screaming for a center and not unjustly, but you never have enough D-men..................

 

[Tbaybruin]

What if they win the cup with a top 4 of:

McAvoy, Lindholm, Carlo, Hanifin?

Bigger question is what if the don‘t

 

[Bruin4]

All this Ullmark talk to Edmonton along with Jake. Just don't see it. I think the oil are pretty content with Skinner as of right now and I don't see them moving RNH who signed a very team friendly deal and is locked up for the next 5 years.

 

[EvilDead]

Im willing to wager that the 31 other GMs in the league have all inquired about the 22 year-old. I don't think their quitting on him at all. I think its a position of strength with the likes of McTavish and Carlsson there as well and Verbeek see's them as the future 1-2 down the middle, but hopefully your right and they have soured on him and the Bruins can pick him up for a bag of chips or even a stale bag of cracker jacks. lol

I'm not saying it isn't a trade from a position of strength. It very much is. The issue is for the team that has to part with the assets to get him. Zegras being on the outs doesn't mean Anaheim doesn't want to get a proper return. I just question if any team will give it and force the Ducks to lower the price or just withdraw him from the trade block.

 

[BruinDust]

All this Ullmark talk to Edmonton along with Jake. Just don't see it. I think the oil are pretty content with Skinner as of right now and I don't see them moving RNH who signed a very team friendly deal and is locked up for the next 5 years.

And has a full NMC for the entire duration of his contract.

And allows them the flexibility to load up a line with 97 and 29 from time-to-time.

An Oiler lifer who just passed Messier for all-time games played.

It'd be like someone suggesting here 10 years ago we trade Krejci in the middle of a contending season. I don't get why RNH is even being discussed.

 

[Hookslide]

I think if JDB goes, it will be just one of a series of moves.

I think his situation is somewhat independent of other potential moves (Ullmark, Grzelcyk, Forbort, etc.), because losing him for nothing in the off season is a bigger hit than losing one of the D, as there are more quality replacement options for them in house.

Who knows where things are regarding extending him, but it doesn’t seem likely right now.

Move him for a similar forward with term or another pending UFA and futures, if possible and then use Ullmark and Beecher or similar to address the other needs.

If you are trading Jake and Ullmark together then go to Ottawa for Chychrun and Pinto.

 

[NDiesel]

If you are trading Jake and Ullmark together then go to Ottawa for Chychrun and Pinto.

I like the idea of a debrusk for pinto trade.

 

[Eddie Munson]

Those numbers include many seasons where RHN was playing 3rd line C and or not often with McDrai. He had 43 points in 82 games with McDavid on the roster, he had 104 points with McDavid on the roster.

But you’re probably right playing with mid to late 30s Bergeron and Marchand gives you the same bump as playing with the prime aged best offensive 1-2 punch we’ve seen in many decades. Good call.

Your exact quote: “now do RNH pre McDavid”

Did you separate all the shifts Debrusk played away from Krejci, Marchand, Pastrnak, Bergeron?

I feels like the goalposts have been greatly moved to fit a narrative now.

 

[sarge88]

If you are trading Jake and Ullmark together then go to Ottawa for Chychrun and Pinto.

Maybe. But, I don’t see Ullmark waiving for Ottawa and I don’t see JDB re-upping there.

Maybe a 3 way deal……JDB to Ottawa for Pinto + and they flip JDB to Calgary or Edmonton for picks/prospects?

I’m still of the mindset that you can get more by splitting them up and adding a little to each, though.

 

[shelbysdad]

We would have the highest paid D in the league with no #1 C. Bad cap management for me.

Potentially the best D corp in the league
Would require Merkulov, Lysell, Poitras full timers.....

Is it worth a shot?

 

[BamBamCam]

We would have the highest paid D in the league with no #1 C. Bad cap management for me.

Somebody's NMC/NTC does kick in until July 1st just saying

 

[Blowfish]

Vatrano is a no brainer. No?

 

[bearcountry17]

How much are you offering Debrusk?
I guess it depends on how many years but 6ish. The problemis that this is going to be the first year in a while where the cap is going up so there are going to be many bidders on any good UFAs this year. Any winger replacement the Bruins may have in mind is going to cost a premium. Mid to High 6s may look bad now but be a blessing in 3-4 years when the cap keeps rising. If they move on from Ullmark Gryz Forbort, and replace them with Bussi, lohrei, Wortherspion they should have enough to get a center at 8.5ish( Lindholm) and Debrusk or replacement at 6ish.

Him being fast is great and all, but that still doesn't change the fact that he still can't hit the broadside of a barn 3/10ths of the time and is massively underperforming his expected goals total.



Well that puts the team in a bit of a pickle then doesn't it, because sans a complete DNA change that involves the Bruins moving on from a player like Ullmark and shift the bulk of the money from being invested in goalie to being invested in players in front of the goalie, you're plum shit out of luck. It's either move DeBrusk or do a DNA change in how the team is constructed which Sweeney and Neely don't want to do for some reason.

Furthermore, while Zacha's playoff performance was indeed poor, Frederic was playing an entirely different role to the one he is playing now.

More to the topic at hand though, what makes you think that getting another high end center to pair with DeBrusk fixes the problem? It's no different than the Bergeron and Marchand band aid of last year. DeBrusk needs to be able to create offense by himself.

How much offense did Nathan Horton create by himself? Tyler Seguin and Even Bruins Era Jaromir Jagr could create offence by themselves. They have a collective 6 goals in 64 games for the Bruins. Nathan Horton had 15 in 43.

Debrusk wasn’t the problem vs the panthers. Dude had 4 goals in 7 games had the 8th best +\- on the team. Bergeron is my favorite of all time AINEC but the player that played against the Panthers was not a good representative of him as a player. A -6 in 3 games. I think for example a guy like Elias Lindholm or Tomas Hertl could come in and give you a lot more than what Bergeron could muster up with a busted back.

 

[sarge88]

Vatrano is a no brainer. No?

I‘d be happy with him, provided it’s for Beecher or similar level guy and a late pick down the road.

Not sure if that will do it, though.

And of course JDB or another big ticket paycheck would have to get moved out to fit him in.

26 goals, 60 PIM for a 29 year old locked up at a manageable 3.65 for another year is a pretty good commodity.

I‘m thinking someone would give up a 1 or higher level prospect than Beecher for him.