Boston Bruins 2023-24 Roster and Salary Cap Discussion V

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Sure it makes them worse today, but there is more consideration to trades than just who wins it in the moment.

What if Debrusk is asking for a 7 year extension? Are you willing to commit to him until he's 33, vs Crouse until he's 30? Or Debrusk at 6 mil vs Crouse at 4.3? What can that extra money help you do elsewhere?

While the size gain and skill loss happen today, you potentially set yourself up better for next year and on.

I’d absolutely commit to Debrusk for 7x$6M. No question at all.

 

[NDiesel]

I’d absolutely commit to Debrusk for 7x$6M. No question at all.

To each their own, I like Debrusk, but I'm starting to become weary about signing him into his early to mid 30s.

 

[TobanWest]

Just a thought... What about a deal built around:

EDM: Debrusk, Gryz
BOS: Ekholm, Hyman

Ekholm would look good beside Charlie and Debrusks contract probably the same or more than Hyman. Do get older though.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

This was an absolute disaster to be honest.

I don't mind the player, but yeah, the overpayment was absolute insanity here.

so hopefully this can help you understand why some of us are resistant to these kinds of moves and that it doesn't mean we prefer to have a "soft" team.

 

[Sheppy]

Just a thought... What about a deal built around:

EDM: Debrusk, Gryz
BOS: Ekholm, Hyman

Ekholm would look good beside Charlie and Debrusks contract probably the same or more than Hyman. Do get older though.

I don't know, I feel the Bruins get the two better players. Unless there's picks/prospects which we don't have much of going back, I can't see them wanting to do this.

so hopefully this can help you understand why some of us are resistant to these kinds of moves and that it doesn't mean we prefer to have a "soft" team.

I mean, that's a pretty drastic payment. I'm for those type of moves if they don't cost an arm and a leg. There's players out there I think could help this team without costing nearly as much as that.

 

[wintersej]

Massive overpayment by them for toughness, doesnt mean every guy is going to cost that much, but what if you could build a trade around Crouse and Debrusk? Adds size in the top 6 who can actually contribute outside of physicality

I’m not sure if you get him if you include Poitras and Lorhei along with DeBrusk.

 

[GordonHowe]

Lucic would've helped a lot for sure. That cliché about the entire team playing an inch or two bigger when they have a feared tough guy in the lineup is tired but I do think it would've been the case with this team. Especially since he is still a good enough player to actually contribute regularly in a 4th line role.

That being said I fully expect Sweeney to address it and I think he will. I've really liked Sweeney's additions to the team the last two trade deadlines and It's blatantly obvious that they need to address this issue. He'll do it but it'll probably take some time. He's not going to bring in a scrub for the sake of it.

Hope you are right.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Hookslide]

Again, there is nothing contradictory about a combination of speed, skill and team wide physicality. Each compliments the other.

If you're talking about mid to late 70s Bruins, I see your point.

The Big Bad Bruins of the early 70s were physically intimidating, yet they were also relatively speedy, and certainly skilled.

You can have all three. It's not rocket science.

You said it all ,and nothing else needs to be said. Balance is a winner.

 

[Kegs]

Don’t believe what you hear even if it’s from management.

Sweeney spent his end of the year meeting telling the fans the team was going to get younger and build around the young core.

They ended up getting .2 years older and just signing a bunch of 1 year deals and one 2year deal in geekie.


It’s resulted in a good product to start the year, don’t get me wrong. But it is very different from the plan management laid out in June.

4 rookies isn’t enough for u?

Im not even sure if you do that on a usage basis if that’s true. It’s certainly close.

None of the guys you mentioned that are young and playing are close to the top of the roster in minutes played. So their impact is minimal to why you are suggesting. Only poitras is in the top 15 of minutes played for what you just claimed

I mean there’s what 12-15 players left over from the roster last year that are all now a year older too. Coyle is bringing up that average age with minutes, JVR is, Marchand even more so now.

But even more important will you answer the question as to whether you and @marchyknowsbest are the same person? The only time I ever hear from either of you is when you both are commenting on the same posts at the same time.

It’s beyond coincidental at this point that the only time I hear from either of you, you both are chiming in at the same time.

I'm not sure you can consider me firmly "across the aisle" as I do believe they need to add some more physicality, but I'm not interested in it doing so if it means adding someone who can barely play a regular shift without being a liability like McEwan. Gimme Crouse or Zadarov sure, not Reaves or McEwan.

I also tend to believe this is just not the style of game they are built for, and I think it would take more than a couple moves to change that. Play to your strengths which is defensive play and goaltending.

When did crouse become available ?

 

[NDiesel]

4 rookies isn’t enough for u?


When did crouse become available ?

Is he untouchable? They probably aren't looking to actively trade him, but I thought he'd be an interesting target.

 

[Kegs]

Is he untouchable? They probably aren't looking to actively trade him, but I thought he'd be an interesting target.

The team is on the rise. A big reason is his play. His contract is amazing and doesn’t end any time soon. Just doesn’t make sense for them. He is the age and skill they would want to keep.

 

[NDiesel]

The team is on the rise. A big reason is his play. His contract is amazing and doesn’t end any time soon. Just doesn’t make sense for them. He is the age and skill they would want to keep.

Completely fair, I think any deal would presume Debrusk wants to sign there, which is probably a reach anyway.

 

[Hookslide]

Ok that’s next year we are talking about this year. It should have started last offseason with making moves for younger players to surround the core with.

Like I said it’s worked out so far especially with JVR. But based solely off what Sweeney said the plan for the offseason was, they got older as a team not younger for the 2023-2024 season.

Your core players are younger ,McAvoy, Pasta, Zacha, Carlo, DeBrusk, Sway, and then you add , Frederics, Poitras, Beecher, Loheri, and then Shatt and JVR, will not be here next year. Marchands time is running down . Gryz won't be here . This age talk is a bunch of bullshit, Not to sound like a " DICK ,' but the Bruins need to be meaner , a little nasty and I not looking for goons, get JVR off the PP,put DeBrusk or Coyle on the PP, get a forward that can put the puck in the net, does not need to be a center, stop the bull shit we need Lindholm, or some other #1 center , ride it out and address it off season, if it needs to be addressed, Do not move DeBrusk just to move him, I am all in on a Crouse like deal that is a sideways move if you move DeBrusk. Defense must be addressed, I don't mind Fobort, and intime Lorhrei will be fine and if he plays this year accept the mistakes as growing pains. Gryz, Shat,and Mitchell must be replaced. Monty must adjust his style you cannot leave these goaltenders as good as they ar bare ass night after night.....

 

[Blowfish]

I don't agree with this.

Curious, what part didn't you agree with?

 

[UncleRico]

Your core players are younger ,McAvoy, Pasta, Zacha, Carlo, DeBrusk, Sway, and then you add , Frederics, Poitras, Beecher, Loheri, and then Shatt and JVR, will not be here next year. Marchands time is running down . Gryz won't be here . This age talk is a bunch of bullshit, Not to sound like a " DICK ,' but the Bruins need to be meaner , a little nasty and I not looking for goons, get JVR off the PP,put DeBrusk or Coyle on the PP, get a forward that can put the puck in the net, does not need to be a center, stop the bull shit we need Lindholm, or some other #1 center , ride it out and address it off season, if it needs to be addressed, Do not move DeBrusk just to move him, I am all in on a Crouse like deal that is a sideways move if you move DeBrusk. Defense must be addressed, I don't Fobort, and intime Lorhrei will be fine and if he plays this year accept the mistakes as growing pains. Gryz, Shat,and Mitchell must be replaced. Monty must adjust his style you cannot leave these goaltenders as good as they ar bare ass night after night.....

I guess what I’m trying to say more simply is..

The Bruins didn’t go out and bring any younger players in than what they didn’t already have on the roster or in the pipeline than geekie who is on a two year deal. And the team technically still got older by average age.

I wholeheartedly agree with them being meaner and more specifically needing to have an edge.

 

[Sheppy]

Curious, what part didn't you agree with?

I disagree with both as it sits right now. The height and weight thing doesn't translate to playing a heavy game, especially when a lot of their big guys don't really have physicality as part of their game (Lindholm, Carlo, JVR etc) - I don't have an issue with how they play, but yeah, not physical guys to me. Their forward group as a whole aren't physical at all. I'm personally not a fan with the other areas that are lacking, which leads me to not be overly thrilled with the makeup of this team. That said, there really wasn't a lot of room for them to work with.

As for Mentally Strong - I'm just not seeing it. Especially after last years post season bed shitting. I don't think there's any evidence of them being mentally strong to be honest. The goaltending was sub par, the defense instantly became a liability after being remarkably strong all season long and the forwards didn't have an extra gear. Ultimately, i thought the Bruins would have a tough time with Florida, but I thought they'd win. A lot of their issues came from uncharacteristic plays. Florida brought it, and the Bruins folded up. I don't think they were mentally strong at all, and over the past few weeks, despite the record, they haven't shown me they are.

 

[GordonHowe]

The team is on the rise. A big reason is his play. His contract is amazing and doesn’t end any time soon. Just doesn’t make sense for them. He is the age and skill they would want to keep.

"Give us your elite player and here, take our crap."

 

[GordonHowe]

Completely fair, I think any deal would presume Debrusk wants to sign there, which is probably a reach anyway.

I don't know what you do with Jake.

I like him a lot when he plays his game, but as Haggerty observed recently, DeBrusk seems to overthink things. His stock has to be falling, which is "unhelpful" for all concerned.

 

[GordonHowe]

Your core players are younger ,McAvoy, Pasta, Zacha, Carlo, DeBrusk, Sway, and then you add , Frederics, Poitras, Beecher, Loheri, and then Shatt and JVR, will not be here next year. Marchands time is running down . Gryz won't be here . This age talk is a bunch of bullshit, Not to sound like a " DICK ,' but the Bruins need to be meaner , a little nasty and I not looking for goons, get JVR off the PP,put DeBrusk or Coyle on the PP, get a forward that can put the puck in the net, does not need to be a center, stop the bull shit we need Lindholm, or some other #1 center , ride it out and address it off season, if it needs to be addressed, Do not move DeBrusk just to move him, I am all in on a Crouse like deal that is a sideways move if you move DeBrusk. Defense must be addressed, I don't Fobort, and intime Lorhrei will be fine and if he plays this year accept the mistakes as growing pains. Gryz, Shat,and Mitchell must be replaced. Monty must adjust his style you cannot leave these goaltenders as good as they ar bare ass night after night.....

Captain Obvious says, overreliance on elite goaltending to save your bacon night after night is not a prescription for success.

It's finally caught up with them. Better now than in February.

Curious, what part didn't you agree with?

The part where you play Beaker.

Your core players are younger ,McAvoy, Pasta, Zacha, Carlo, DeBrusk, Sway, and then you add , Frederics, Poitras, Beecher, Loheri, and then Shatt and JVR, will not be here next year. Marchands time is running down . Gryz won't be here . This age talk is a bunch of bullshit, Not to sound like a " DICK ,' but the Bruins need to be meaner , a little nasty and I not looking for goons, get JVR off the PP,put DeBrusk or Coyle on the PP, get a forward that can put the puck in the net, does not need to be a center, stop the bull shit we need Lindholm, or some other #1 center , ride it out and address it off season, if it needs to be addressed, Do not move DeBrusk just to move him, I am all in on a Crouse like deal that is a sideways move if you move DeBrusk. Defense must be addressed, I don't Fobort, and intime Lorhrei will be fine and if he plays this year accept the mistakes as growing pains. Gryz, Shat,and Mitchell must be replaced. Monty must adjust his style you cannot leave these goaltenders as good as they ar bare ass night after night.....

Good stuff.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Im not even sure if you do that on a usage basis if that’s true. It’s certainly close.

None of the guys you mentioned that are young and playing are close to the top of the roster in minutes played. So their impact is minimal to why you are suggesting. Only poitras is in the top 15 of minutes played for what you just claimed

I mean there’s what 12-15 players left over from the roster last year that are all now a year older too. Coyle is bringing up that average age with minutes, JVR is, Marchand even more so now.

But even more important will you answer the question as to whether you and @marchyknowsbest are the same person? The only time I ever hear from either of you is when you both are commenting on the same posts at the same time.

It’s beyond coincidental at this point that the only time I hear from either of you, you both are chiming in at the same time.

First of all, I didn't even see @MarchysNoseKnows replies to you until you pointed it out. I replied to a conversation that was started by you claiming the team got older (false). The conversation was mostly back & forth between you & @NDiesel. I wasn't following the whole thread. In the end I felt compelled to add my own perspective (not sure why... masochism I guess). I can't help that you post some asinine take and have no less than 3 people pointing out how flawed it is or that this is a regular occurence. I promise there's no grand conspiracy here. You're just wrong an awful lot and some of us are bored enough during working hours to get caught up in the discourse here.

Anyway, if I had seen MNK's replies I'd have echoed his posts about how if you go position by position they obviously got younger or how as of recently capfriendly has us as one of the youngest teams in the league. That point makes the context I provided especially valid: Sweeney signed several replaceable veterans to short deals with the clear desire for kids to step up and take those spots. And a quarter into the season that has happened. Obsessing over one metric from LWL claiming they got older is completely missing the context of the roster Sweeney was trying to build. He didn't go out and sign guys like JVR and Shattenkirk in hopes that they'd be regulars on April. He signed them as insurance in case the kids can't hack it. That's just part of the process of building a younger core. It doesn't happen overnight and you might need to get older in the short term to mitigate risk and get younger in the long term. But anyway you regularly make these arguments ignoring any & all context or logic so I don't expect this to be the debate where you suddenly change your mind on something.

As for your original claim that they got older, your LWL numbers sounded suspect at face value and it wasn't clear to me exactly how those averages were derived so I figured I'd just calculate them myself. I pulled roster info from hockey-reference which uses the player's age as of Feb 1st of the given season to normalize things. I then figured I'd look at opening night and game 7 of last season and opening night of this season. Keep in mind that opening night 2022 they had several key guys out due to injury so I looked up their actual 20 man lineup and then figured out the average for what would have been their 20 man lineup if healthy...
Opening night 20-man lineup 2022: average age 28.8
Opening night 20-man lineup 2022 (if healthy): average age 28.95
2023 R1 Game 7 lineup: average age 29
2023 opening night lineup: average age 28.15
11/25/23 20 man lineup per capfriendly: average age 26.7

So opening night of this season (even with Lucic, JVR & Shattenkirk in the lineup) they were younger than both their game 7 lineup and 2 variations of their 2022 opening night lineup. And more recently they're much younger as younger guys have gotten real chances in the lineup due to injury, etc.

so at no point this season have they gotten older than their lineup at the start or finish of last season, so your initial claim was just flat out false even without taking into account all the contextual stuff that I brought up. The average age of the team started this season younger than last year and is trending downward as the season progresses & they continue to give kids chances. So please tell us again what part of Sweeney's commitment to getting younger has he not made good on?

 

[Gee Wally]

 

[sarge88]

Why would Arizona trade him? They’re in the playoff hunt and they have him locked up for 3 more years after this at a good number.

Every team has a price for just about every player they have.

Every team is willing to pay a certain price for every player they’d like to have.

It all comes down to whether they can find common ground.

I‘m of the mindset that it’s fine to overpay a bit for a guy you believe in.

 

[UncleRico]

First of all, I didn't even see @MarchysNoseKnows replies to you until you pointed it out. I replied to a conversation that was started by you claiming the team got older (false). The conversation was mostly back & forth between you & @NDiesel. I wasn't following the whole thread. In the end I felt compelled to add my own perspective (not sure why... masochism I guess). I can't help that you post some asinine take and have no less than 3 people pointing out how flawed it is or that this is a regular occurence. I promise there's no grand conspiracy here. You're just wrong an awful lot and some of us are bored enough during working hours to get caught up in the discourse here.

Anyway, if I had seen MNK's replies I'd have echoed his posts about how if you go position by position they obviously got younger or how as of recently capfriendly has us as one of the youngest teams in the league. That point makes the context I provided especially valid: Sweeney signed several replaceable veterans to short deals with the clear desire for kids to step up and take those spots. And a quarter into the season that has happened. Obsessing over one metric from LWL claiming they got older is completely missing the context of the roster Sweeney was trying to build. He didn't go out and sign guys like JVR and Shattenkirk in hopes that they'd be regulars on April. He signed them as insurance in case the kids can't hack it. That's just part of the process of building a younger core. It doesn't happen overnight and you might need to get older in the short term to mitigate risk and get younger in the long term. But anyway you regularly make these arguments ignoring any & all context or logic so I don't expect this to be the debate where you suddenly change your mind on something.

As for your original claim that they got older, your LWL numbers sounded suspect at face value and it wasn't clear to me exactly how those averages were derived so I figured I'd just calculate them myself. I pulled roster info from hockey-reference which uses the player's age as of Feb 1st of the given season to normalize things. I then figured I'd look at opening night and game 7 of last season and opening night of this season. Keep in mind that opening night 2022 they had several key guys out due to injury so I looked up their actual 20 man lineup and then figured out the average for what would have been their 20 man lineup if healthy...
Opening night 20-man lineup 2022: average age 28.8
Opening night 20-man lineup 2022 (if healthy): average age 28.95
2023 R1 Game 7 lineup: average age 29
2023 opening night lineup: average age 28.15
11/25/23 20 man lineup per capfriendly: average age 26.7

So opening night of this season (even with Lucic, JVR & Shattenkirk in the lineup) they were younger than both their game 7 lineup and 2 variations of their 2022 opening night lineup. And more recently they're much younger as younger guys have gotten real chances in the lineup due to injury, etc.

so at no point this season have they gotten older than their lineup at the start or finish of last season, so your initial claim was just flat out false even without taking into account all the contextual stuff that I brought up. The average age of the team started this season younger than last year and is trending downward as the season progresses & they continue to give kids chances. So please tell us again what part of Sweeney's commitment to getting younger has he not made good on?

First of all, I didn't even see @MarchysNoseKnows replies to you until you pointed it out. I replied to a conversation that was started by you claiming the team got older (false). The conversation was mostly back & forth between you & @NDiesel. I wasn't following the whole thread. In the end I felt compelled to add my own perspective (not sure why... masochism I guess). I can't help that you post some asinine take and have no less than 3 people pointing out how flawed it is or that this is a regular occurence. I promise there's no grand conspiracy here. You're just wrong an awful lot and some of us are bored enough during working hours to get caught up in the discourse here.

Anyway, if I had seen MNK's replies I'd have echoed his posts about how if you go position by position they obviously got younger or how as of recently capfriendly has us as one of the youngest teams in the league. That point makes the context I provided especially valid: Sweeney signed several replaceable veterans to short deals with the clear desire for kids to step up and take those spots. And a quarter into the season that has happened. Obsessing over one metric from LWL claiming they got older is completely missing the context of the roster Sweeney was trying to build. He didn't go out and sign guys like JVR and Shattenkirk in hopes that they'd be regulars on April. He signed them as insurance in case the kids can't hack it. That's just part of the process of building a younger core. It doesn't happen overnight and you might need to get older in the short term to mitigate risk and get younger in the long term. But anyway you regularly make these arguments ignoring any & all context or logic so I don't expect this to be the debate where you suddenly change your mind on something.

As for your original claim that they got older, your LWL numbers sounded suspect at face value and it wasn't clear to me exactly how those averages were derived so I figured I'd just calculate them myself. I pulled roster info from hockey-reference which uses the player's age as of Feb 1st of the given season to normalize things. I then figured I'd look at opening night and game 7 of last season and opening night of this season. Keep in mind that opening night 2022 they had several key guys out due to injury so I looked up their actual 20 man lineup and then figured out the average for what would have been their 20 man lineup if healthy...
Opening night 20-man lineup 2022: average age 28.8
Opening night 20-man lineup 2022 (if healthy): average age 28.95
2023 R1 Game 7 lineup: average age 29
2023 opening night lineup: average age 28.15
11/25/23 20 man lineup per capfriendly: average age 26.7

So opening night of this season (even with Lucic, JVR & Shattenkirk in the lineup) they were younger than both their game 7 lineup and 2 variations of their 2022 opening night lineup. And more recently they're much younger as younger guys have gotten real chances in the lineup due to injury, etc.

so at no point this season have they gotten older than their lineup at the start or finish of last season, so your initial claim was just flat out false even without taking into account all the contextual stuff that I brought up. The average age of the team started this season younger than last year and is trending downward as the season progresses & they continue to give kids chances. So please tell us again what part of Sweeney's commitment to getting younger has he not made good on?

Multiple sources have opening day roster at 28.0 last year and 28.2 this year I posted the links already and can again.

What is your source?

If someone can provide a couple sources that say otherwise I’m more than willing to just be like oh I got it off LeftWingHockey and whatever other site o posted I guess that those sites are trash.

But so far it’s been a bunch of people doing math on their own and saying I am wrong

 

[Bridges31]

I feel like a Debrusk trade is coming… I have nothing to base it on but this team needs a shakeup.

 

[xjoeyc23x]

What if we signed UFA's and didn't spend any trade capital.....

Marchand - Zacha - Pasta
Debrusk - J Toews - P kane
JVR - Coyle - Frederic
Heinen - Pawtwas - Geekie

More goal scorers and better faceoffs