Which previous deadline deals are you comparing Ceci to? I just don't think Ceci is viewed at as that valuable of a player because he's largely ineffective on both sides of the puck. He plays a premium position and he's the type that will get opportunities due to that but trade value doesn't always correlate to such things.
Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion
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tiburon12
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- Jul 18, 2009
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we shouldnt undercut the market to do so though. That's a bad idea. Hit a homerun or don't go to the plate IMO
Gotta get a second or better given the leverage. We are only competing with maybe three to five teams that have the extra cap space and know they are highly unlikely to need it. It’s not like 19-15 teams have tons of space.
Also, there may be other top spending teams who need to dump someone as many rfas remain unsigned still. This is where Grier earns his keep.
He could get creative and really make a nice play. add both kulak and Ceci for a 2026 1st rounder and benning.
End saves nearly 5m this year which is better than just 3.25 in case Kane returns. They also save 1.5m for next year which helps with draisaitle resign. That relief may be worth a protected 1st.
Sharks add 5m this year (who cares!!??) and 1.5m next year (that’s a bit of a bummer not huge), but they add another 1st and whatever they can get for ceci at the deadline.
I liked griers creativity in the EK trade, making the trade serve the sharks needs (dump big future salery, add draft assets) and pens’ needs (add Norris winner without cap hit for two years) at the time and bringing in mtl too to make it work.
Perhaps more than just a simple ceci dump is the play here. Take a bigger dump and get a bigger one year dump and get a bigger future asset….
We’ll know in a few days!!
Also, there may be other top spending teams who need to dump someone as many rfas remain unsigned still. This is where Grier earns his keep.
He could get creative and really make a nice play. add both kulak and Ceci for a 2026 1st rounder and benning.
End saves nearly 5m this year which is better than just 3.25 in case Kane returns. They also save 1.5m for next year which helps with draisaitle resign. That relief may be worth a protected 1st.
Sharks add 5m this year (who cares!!??) and 1.5m next year (that’s a bit of a bummer not huge), but they add another 1st and whatever they can get for ceci at the deadline.
I liked griers creativity in the EK trade, making the trade serve the sharks needs (dump big future salery, add draft assets) and pens’ needs (add Norris winner without cap hit for two years) at the time and bringing in mtl too to make it work.
Perhaps more than just a simple ceci dump is the play here. Take a bigger dump and get a bigger one year dump and get a bigger future asset….
We’ll know in a few days!!
Sharks can also offer Benning as a replacement bottom pair RD who is cheap for another 2 seasons. Benning + a sweetener (Lund or Havelid?) for Ceci + 2nd round pick is definitely something I would do
The Sharks could facilitate a trade with both Edmonton and St Louis.
Edmonton gets Benning
Sharks get 26 1st, Ceci, Kulak
Edmonton gets cap space to match both offer sheets.
St. Louis gets Ferraro, Bords
Sharks get 2nd and 3rd
St. Louis gets a young LD and FW for the same compensation they were willing to give up in the offer sheets.
I would like to get more for Ferraro than a 2nd and 3rd but by taking on both Kulak and Ceci they could get the 1st from Edmonton.
Sharks give up Ferraro, Benning, and Bords.
Sharks receive a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Kulak, Ceci
How much better is Ferraro than Kulak? The Sharks would at worst have the same D but could be better and get 3 draft picks.
A 1st or a 2nd sweetener? For sure.
Here will be Ceci's numbers if he were a Shark in the 24-25 season:
80 games played, 4 goals, 13 assists, 17 points, -30 +/-, and 23 min TOI. We'll get a 4th rounder at the trade deadline.
Just no.
OrrNumber4
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Benning would be a real asset around the league; worth a 2nd/3rd on his own. A cost-controlled #4/5 defenseman is something every team needs.
I'd certainly do these trades. I just don't think St. Louis would look at Ferraro and Bords as worth Broberg and Holloway.
Except Benning is not a 4/5. He's an extra at best.
The Edmonton boards are floating the idea of matching then waiving Broberg with a prearranged trade with SJ. I really wanted the Sharks to offer sheet Broberg to that exact deal so I would be down with that.
I'd need to know what we're talking about for a trade. I don't know if the league will appreciate the whole circumventing the offer sheet no-trade rule.
Patty Ice
Mighty Luca
It's some delusional shit involving compensation such as Mukh or SJs 2nd rounder next year.
Yeah, that's not happening. They're not going to get value out of Broberg. If they don't think he's worth the cap (and he isn't), they should take the 2nd. I think Edmonton's best route out of this situation is to take the compensation on Broberg, match on Holloway, and move a 2nd to get rid of Kulak or Ceci.
I dont think some complex 3-team thing is gunna happen in this time frame. Edm has a week to make this happen and only a handful of teams to deal with.
I also dont see ferraro moving. I think grier really likes him. He had a horrific year last year, but he still seems a guy the sharks want to build around. Not saying I full agree, but I dont see the sharks moving ferraro ahead of the season unless a crazy good offer lands on their lap.
I still can easily imagine a scanario where grier offers for both ceci and kulak. I just wonder if edmonton, which is ranked #25 farm system (generously, and that my include broberg and halloway still) and already lacks a '25 1st and 2nd is going to be willing to part with their '26 1st too for more cap space. They also basically sat out the '23 draft. Their '21 1st look like a bust. How much "go for it right now" mindset are they willing to be in? If they make the bigger cap dump for the '26 1st, they are realllllllly gunna be thin looing forward.
I think a simple: Ceci for '26 2nd rounder is the most likely eventuality (or a 3rd and a 5th or something like that)
I still hold out for adding that '26 1st. I could imagine a scanario, like pitt in '23-24, maybe VGK in '24-25, where EDM finishes on the bubble and the '26 pick ends up in the 15ish range.
Maybe a sweetener to EDM does get the deal done. The sharks are very very deep at F so maybe Lund or cardwell or the like could get the deal done. Allows EDM to part with their top '26 pick (protected), while still getting a reasonable young prospect. I know that was mentioned in some form and I would be OK thinning the deep depth of our pool to try to add more at the top end.
I am awaiting the news....
I also dont see ferraro moving. I think grier really likes him. He had a horrific year last year, but he still seems a guy the sharks want to build around. Not saying I full agree, but I dont see the sharks moving ferraro ahead of the season unless a crazy good offer lands on their lap.
I still can easily imagine a scanario where grier offers for both ceci and kulak. I just wonder if edmonton, which is ranked #25 farm system (generously, and that my include broberg and halloway still) and already lacks a '25 1st and 2nd is going to be willing to part with their '26 1st too for more cap space. They also basically sat out the '23 draft. Their '21 1st look like a bust. How much "go for it right now" mindset are they willing to be in? If they make the bigger cap dump for the '26 1st, they are realllllllly gunna be thin looing forward.
I think a simple: Ceci for '26 2nd rounder is the most likely eventuality (or a 3rd and a 5th or something like that)
I still hold out for adding that '26 1st. I could imagine a scanario, like pitt in '23-24, maybe VGK in '24-25, where EDM finishes on the bubble and the '26 pick ends up in the 15ish range.
Maybe a sweetener to EDM does get the deal done. The sharks are very very deep at F so maybe Lund or cardwell or the like could get the deal done. Allows EDM to part with their top '26 pick (protected), while still getting a reasonable young prospect. I know that was mentioned in some form and I would be OK thinning the deep depth of our pool to try to add more at the top end.
I am awaiting the news....
They don’t have to complete the trade in the week time period. If they have enough interest in Ceci and Kulak as cap dumps they can match and be over until the season starts. It’s not like it changes their having no leverage in negotiating cap dumps. They could also get more clarity after a Kane surgery (maybe confirmed out for the year). Also if teams keep asking for sweeteners for Ceci and Kulak they could also put them on waivers and dare a club to claim them for free.
At least this creates something interesting to discuss this time of year.
matt trick
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- Jun 12, 2007
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If Dobson is available, San Jose should be on the phone. 6’4 24 years old, 24 minutes a night, 50-70 points on a team that doesn’t have much elite scoring talent. I’d be stunned to see him available this deadline. Though his last year on a $4M/year deal (RFA) would make him invaluable to contenders. For us would be an awesome compliment with Dickinson or in front of him for 8-10 years.
I do think he has a better chance than most young first pairing dmen to be available. The Islanders are a bit in no man’s land- borderline playoff team, elite goalie, good defense, two very good but not franchise forwards, and not a huge amount of cap room to build around them. Not many prospects either. Barring home runs with late first (maybe Eiserman), I just don’t see how they become a top 4 team in the east.
One of the best things about a great prospect pool is it puts you in a position to throw lots of assets when a guy like Dobson comes available. I’d do Eklund, Vegas 1st, and any prospect but the top 3 in a heartbeat.
Build around Celebrini, Smith, Dickinson, Dobson, the 25/26 1sts, and the whichever of Musty/Muk/Edstrom remains? Yes please.
Aside from Dobson, and maybe one of Buffalo’s LHD, not much hope for a young top pairing D becoming available, and even that is slim.
matt trick
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Do we think the 1st/2nd comp for Ceci and Kulak is the same or it’s Kulak for a 1st and Ceci for a 2nd, or maybe a 1st to take both.
Kulak’s buyout next year would only be $750k in y2 and 3 of CeliSmith’s ELC. That’s nothing. Same having Ceci for a year. I also believe be flippable for an asset at the deadline.
I do think Edmonton is incentivized to make it happen now, as they still have the choice to not match. Once they match Holloway and Broberg can’t be traded. With one fewer option, price likely goes up.
$7.5M in cash to take both (buying out Kulak for $750/yr next summer) is worth a 1st to me, but it’s not my money. I’d also say having 10 NHL dmen (including Muk and Thrun) is excessive. How do you play that? Send both down along with the bottom performer? Send Benning back? If Muk and Thrun outplay the vets (not exactly a minefield to navigate) I suppose that’s the vets problem.
Someone is going to steal an asset, hopefully it’s us.
Kulak’s buyout next year would only be $750k in y2 and 3 of CeliSmith’s ELC. That’s nothing. Same having Ceci for a year. I also believe be flippable for an asset at the deadline.
I do think Edmonton is incentivized to make it happen now, as they still have the choice to not match. Once they match Holloway and Broberg can’t be traded. With one fewer option, price likely goes up.
$7.5M in cash to take both (buying out Kulak for $750/yr next summer) is worth a 1st to me, but it’s not my money. I’d also say having 10 NHL dmen (including Muk and Thrun) is excessive. How do you play that? Send both down along with the bottom performer? Send Benning back? If Muk and Thrun outplay the vets (not exactly a minefield to navigate) I suppose that’s the vets problem.
Someone is going to steal an asset, hopefully it’s us.
Juxtaposer
Outro: Divina Comedia
I have very little interest in Broberg with Dickinson and Mukhamadullin in the system already. I never liked him anyway, he doesn't have higher upside than Dick and Mukh, and that OS contract is yucky. I have no interest in giving up a 2nd for him either. I'd rather use our 2nd on trying to acquire someone like Fabbro than Broberg.
Is the return for Dobson really going to be roughly Eklund + Vegas 1st + Edstrom? That's pretty steep
Eklund+1st+Edstrom for Dobson would get any GM fired on the spot. That's pretty much twice the package we sent for a cost controlled Erik Karlsson in his prime.
I feel like the Vegas 1st + a few sweeteners is more than enough
OrrNumber4
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matt trick
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He’s 6’4, a top 15 dman in the league and he’s 24. He’d rightly cost a fortune. Three good assets. Maybe you could replace Zetterlund or Musty with Eklund, but they may want the centerpiece to be a center or D. Not many top dmen have been traded recently. Particularly those who are RFA and young.
Meier as an example brought Muk, 1st (Musty), 2nd, and Zetterlund. He also had the poison pill $10M QO, and is a winger, not a RHD, and hes currently younger than Meier was when traded.
OrrNumber4
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Yes, but the key difference is that my team was trading away the prime asset. It's different when it's my team acquiring the prime asset. Then, it should be free.
weastern bias
worst team in the league
Dobson is not going to be available, but if he is literally every asset in the organization should be on the table outside of Celebrini, Smith and our 2025 1st
Dickinson you also do everything to protect, but he shouldn't be the backbreaker that prevents making a trade for a player that great
I'd gladly trade VGK 1st + Eklund + Mukhamadullin for him, he's that special, and he fills our single biggest organizational need
Dickinson you also do everything to protect, but he shouldn't be the backbreaker that prevents making a trade for a player that great
I'd gladly trade VGK 1st + Eklund + Mukhamadullin for him, he's that special, and he fills our single biggest organizational need
The Sharks won’t trade for Dobson at the deadline. Their best chance of acquiring him is actually with an offer sheet. It has to be only 5 years (if you don’t know why read up on the CBA) $9.1 million is the highest amount for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd offer sheet. The Sharks would need to get their 3rd back.
Just shows GMs need to start taking care of their RFA’s. The offer sheet compensation is much lower than the proposals being floated around.
