Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[sharski]

18 game span of .500 play

12 game stretch of .500 play
(Includes a season best 3 game win streak, uh oh, look out, spoiling the tank)

that's most of a half season of borderline contending for final playoff spot hockey so don't let anyone tell you that they were really all that bad

 

[CHIshark]

Pohlkamp is in the NCAA next season

Thank you. I didn't realize it.

I still don't see how getting an offensive-minded defensemen like Ceci, who can't play defense, is going to have a good year as a Shark. Pair him with Ferraro or Thrun? Just no.

 

[weastern bias]

that's most of a half season of borderline contending for final playoff spot hockey so don't let anyone tell you that they were really all that bad

I've changed my mind, send Celebrini back, we don't need him

 

[Barrie22]

that's most of a half season of borderline contending for final playoff spot hockey so don't let anyone tell you that they were really all that bad

.500 play brings the sharks to 22/23 in the league. 14/10 points out of a spot in the eastern conference and 18/17 points out of a western conference spot.

 

[Hodge]

Thank you. I didn't realize it.

I still don't see how getting an offensive-minded defensemen like Ceci, who can't play defense, is going to have a good year as a Shark. Pair him with Ferraro or Thrun? Just no.

Ceci isn't an offensive-minded defenseman. I would categorize him as more of a transition defenseman who can help control the neutral zone by breaking the puck out efficiently and forcing opposing forwards to dump the puck in. Those are really important things for a defenseman to be good at even if he lacks the agility or defensive IQ to effectively retrieve pucks or protect the slot. But he is big so he can still get in the way.

Ferraro-Ceci would be an ideal tough minutes pairing for a tanking team. Let them soak up the toughest minutes behind the likes of Wennberg, Sturm, Goodrow, etc. while opening up offensive minutes for Walman and Mukhamadullin to support our top six.

 

[sampler]

Truth is that with or without Ceci, the sharks are verey unlikely to compete for a spot. I have my wishful thinking that they do, but Ceci isnt gunna be a tipping point. A true #1 D might be, but Ceci wont. As such, His addition would valuable only if they get assets in return for the cap space he takes up, and potentially for his rental at the deeadline.

I think he might have some value in his play in giving the sharks better options when injuries hit, but this is a side benefit, and not a good reason to acquire him.

Now, if the sharks get a 2025 4th rounder and a 2026 2nd rounder, then its worth it. They miht be able to flip him for a 3rd or so at the deadline too. a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th rounder is a nice package for what amounts to just spending 3M in Hasso's cash.

Personally, I would love to see the sharks make this a real strategy. They have 13M, so they can get a return to take junk from a contending team and then a return on flipping that junk at the deadline, so they can get paid on the front and back ends. This should be a major avenue for asset accumulation that Grier should be exploring. He did it with Walman. He kinda did it with Grandlund (as his cap dump was key in the EK trade). I would love to see more similar type deals, which add "free" assets while also providing a little veteran presence and avoids having 19 or 20 year old, unready kids thrust into bad positions.

 

[67 others]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1823346395996430504

Paywall

Is it against rules to post links that bypass paywalls so everyone can read? Lol

 

[TheBeard]

So you aren't worried or are you worried?

I guess I misread your post. You think they've been waiting this whole time to get revenge??

 

[Bizz]

Can Sharks Take Advantage of Oilers’ Offer Sheet Drama?

The Edmonton Oilers are in trouble, can the San Jose Sharks take advantage? The Oilers, already pretty much at the $88 million salary cap limit, were ambushed on Tuesday by offer sheets to their last two RFAs, defenseman Philip Broberg and winger Dylan Holloway. The St. Louis Blues inked Broberg...

sanjosehockeynow.com

 

[sampler]

By the way, if the asset accumulation for taking on cap dumps proves hard (not enough teams looking to shed), then adding Moderate UFAs on one year deals with intention of flipping them at the deadline is another good option.

Win for the sharks as they get their return at the deadline (like Duclair got Thompson and a 3rd).

Win for the player as they get to move on to a Playoff bound team.

Win for the PO team as they get a played at 1/4 the cap hit.

I would be very fine adding someone like Barrie or the like (RHD) on a 1 year deal in hopes that he has a good year and

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I’m only willing to take on Ceci or Kulak if Edmonton pays a 2nd for him. If they can move either without elsewhere then let them.

 

[sampler]

BTW, Pitt just did it. Took on 1 yr, 2.5 of cody glass for a 3rd and a 6th. Not a huge haul, but not that bad, particualry if glass does well enough to flip him (and his RFA status) to another team for a similar round pick.

I woulda been perfectly happy for the sharks to be on the other end of acquiring glass. Its not a great return, but Glass would add another 25 year old, potentially solid forward to the crew.

Seeing as how Granlund, sturm, and kunin are almost surely to be traded at the deadline, I would not have minded bringing in glass, adding a few picks, and seeing if he can be an effective 3rd line player. I see him alot like Dyllandrea, except this time, the sharks get paid to take him instead of hte other way around.

Worst case scenario, he stinks and the sharks "buy" a 3rd and a 6th.

middle case scenario, he's reasonable and the sharks find a home for him at the deadline for another mid rounder.

Best case scenario, he finds his groove, puts in a solid 15-20 goal season, and the sharks keep him as part of the young core. Hes only 25, he's zero risk and cost beyond this season, and he was a #6 pick for a reason. He was also 5th among forwards in pts and first in +/- on nashville in 22-23, so its not like he hasnt shown signs of being good.

Oh well... woulda liked to see grier make that move.

 

[CHIshark]

Ceci isn't an offensive-minded defenseman. I would categorize him as more of a transition defenseman who can help control the neutral zone by breaking the puck out efficiently and forcing opposing forwards to dump the puck in. Those are really important things for a defenseman to be good at even if he lacks the agility or defensive IQ to effectively retrieve pucks or protect the slot. But he is big so he can still get in the way.

Ferraro-Ceci would be an ideal tough minutes pairing for a tanking team. Let them soak up the toughest minutes behind the likes of Wennberg, Sturm, Goodrow, etc. while opening up offensive minutes for Walman and Mukhamadullin to support our top six.

Getting Ceci includes flipping him at the trade deadline. His defense numbers won't be good and with the Sharks being goal-challenged, his offensive numbers will come down. If we're lucky we'd get a 2nd rounder, but more likely a 3rd or worse. That's not a good ROI for $5M. Hard pass on Ceci.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Getting Ceci includes flipping him at the trade deadline. His defense numbers won't be good and with the Sharks being goal-challenged, his offensive numbers will come down. If we're lucky we'd get a 2nd rounder, but more likely a 3rd or worse. That's not a good ROI for $5M. Hard pass on Ceci.

It absolutely is a steal to get a 3rd for him for $5M. While it’s a capped league the Sharks are not going to go anywhere near the cap. So cap space has no value to the Sharks whereas it has value to a cap team like the Oilers.

I feel like everyone on here is related to Hasso because so many people are concerned about his money when it has no bearing on the Sharks.

 

[Star Platinum]

It absolutely is a steal to get a 3rd for him for $5M. While it’s a capped league the Sharks are not going to go anywhere near the cap. So cap space has no value to the Sharks whereas it has value to a cap team like the Oilers.

I feel like everyone on here is related to Hasso because so many people are concerned about his money when it has no bearing on the Sharks.

And I feel like every person who says contracts don't matter to the Sharks for the next few years just doesn't get it and never will. Note, this doesn't apply to Ceci, who will expire at the end of the season, but I question whether he'll get much of a return at the deadline if any.

Every overpaid player on your roster is one of two things. A player you won't be able to get rid of without attaching an asset to him later on if you want to replace him with a better player or a player that you're going to have to keep on your roster until his contract runs out. Goodrow falls into the latter category, which is why claiming on waivers was a stupid move. Walman isn't expensive, so that move made much more sense. But regardless of where your team is in its development, you want to keep the number of overpaid contracts on your roster to an absolute minimum because if they have market value contracts for their perceived talent level, you'll get more in return if you decide to trade them. And as the Sharks should always be looking to trade any player that is going to be a UFA in 2025 (because realistically there aren't going to be many Toffolis out there who are going to willingly sign or re-sign with the worst team in the league), a GM should always be thinking about how to get the most out of those trades.

If a player comes along that is on a one year deal, but is overpaid for his current talent level and is a clear upgrade over our worst player at his position, sure the Sharks can pick that guy up. But don't take anyone that has two or more years remaining and is overpaid unless you get something else upfront in the deal that makes it worth what you'll have to pay later to dump that player.

BTW Cici's cap number is $3.25M, not $5M.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

And I feel like every person who says contracts don't matter to the Sharks for the next few years just doesn't get it and never will. Note, this doesn't apply to Ceci, who will expire at the end of the season, but I question whether he'll get much of a return at the deadline if any.

Every overpaid player on your roster is one of two things. A player you won't be able to get rid of without attaching an asset to him later on if you want to replace him with a better player or a player that you're going to have to keep on your roster until his contract runs out. Goodrow falls into the latter category, which is why claiming on waivers was a stupid move. Walman isn't expensive, so that move made much more sense. But regardless of where your team is in its development, you want to keep the number of overpaid contracts on your roster to an absolute minimum because if they have market value contracts for their perceived talent level, you'll get more in return if you decide to trade them. And as the Sharks should always be looking to trade any player that is going to be a UFA in 2025 (because realistically there aren't going to be many Toffolis out there who are going to willingly sign or re-sign with the worst team in the league), a GM should always be thinking about how to get the most out of those trades.

If a player comes along that is on a one year deal, but is overpaid for his current talent level and is a clear upgrade over our worst player at his position, sure the Sharks can pick that guy up. But don't take anyone that has two or more years remaining and is overpaid unless you get something else upfront in the deal that makes it worth what you'll have to pay later to dump that player.

BTW Cici's cap number is $3.25M, not $5M.

Youre missing the 3rd option. Will be off the books by the time it matters. July 2027. No one is really up for renewel that matters until Smith/Celebrini except maybe Eklund but he also wont be breaking the bank. You absolutely do not need to dump anyone for an asset that will expire before then.

I know fans are excited that Celebrini and Smith are gonna change the outlook. but our defence might be 33rd in the league right now. We wont be able to keep pucks out to win.

If you can get a mid rounder for taking a guy, just do it. The caps going up and barring special circumstances, the value of cap space has gone down so while teams have been trading high value assets (1sts) previously, that no longer applies.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Did nobody pay attention to how little rentals got at the deadline last season? There's no world in which Cody Ceci lands a 2nd at this upcoming deadline.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Did nobody pay attention to how little rentals got at the deadline last season? There's no world in which Cody Ceci lands a 2nd at this upcoming deadline.

I agree that Ceci probably won't get a 2nd as a rental at the deadline but I'm only really interested in taking him if we get a 2nd to do so whether that's the Blues' pick when they don't match Broberg or theirs in 2026. A 3rd for doing it just to recoup what was lost in the Hertl trade seems meaningless but wouldn't surprise me if Grier settled for that.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I guess I misread your post. You think they've been waiting this whole time to get revenge??

Not in the slightest, not every franchise are the attention seeking babys the Hurricanes are

If Chicago was gonna do something, it would have happened by now

 

[TheBeard]

Not in the slightest, not every franchise are the attention seeking babys the Hurricanes are

If Chicago was gonna do something, it would have happened by now

Agreed. But in 4-5 years we’re gonna have to be very smart with how we spend our money, and offersheeting someone now for no reason is a good enough reason for teams to try and poach our RFAs when the time comes.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Agreed. But in 4-5 years we’re gonna have to be very smart with how we spend our money, and offersheeting someone now for no reason is a good enough reason for teams to try and poach our RFAs when the time comes.

I wasnt advocating for offer sheeting anyone, but we should not be afraid because of any perceived repercussions of payback. Also, I think we will be fine as those contracts will put us up to the cap, as opposed to being in cap hell already

 

[Hodge]

Did nobody pay attention to how little rentals got at the deadline last season? There's no world in which Cody Ceci lands a 2nd at this upcoming deadline.

Ilya Lyubushkin returned a 3rd and a 6th. Ceci would easily fetch a 2nd.

 

[DG93]

Ilya Lyubushkin returned a 3rd and a 6th. Ceci would easily fetch a 2nd.

I guess the counter-argument is that it only takes one dumb team to overpay (Pens for a washed-up Murray, DW for Polak, etc.)

 

[Hodge]

I guess the counter-argument is that it only takes one dumb team to overpay (Pens for a washed-up Murray, DW for Polak, etc.)

The only other pending UFA top 4 RD who might be available at the deadline are Larsson and 34 year old David Savard. Ceci will be in demand.

 

[weastern bias]

Remember when we traded the ghost of Brad Stuart to Colorado for 2 2nds? lol

Name brand D men tend to have an overinflated value, Ceci is coming off a finals berth and is a veteran RHD with size, he would return more in a trade than he's worth as a deadline rental, especially if we offset the cap by acquiring a dump in return