Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[DG93]

Ceci would immediately be our best defenseman and would likely fetch at least a 2nd round pick at the deadline.

Did you accidentally sort the list in reverse? That would explain a lot

 

[coooldude]

My take is that these models don't seem to account for team strength. Edmonton was very good, so this is a huge blind-spot for this particular player. Ceci is also the type of player who looks much better on good teams than bad teams, because the more time he spends in the offensive zone the less opportunity there is for the patented Ceci defensive poop.

Sure. As I said, "Usual caveats, this model (and most of them) don't account well for team effects."

He appears to be a middle of the road defenseman on a very good team, so he probably wouldn't be a very good defenseman on our bad team. It does seem debatable whether he would be similar to our already bottom-pair RD. You think no, maybe you're right, maybe he's a worthy 3-4 on our team. I don't have any idea. Nor do I think it'll save us .

 

[Hodge]

Did you accidentally sort the list in reverse? That would explain a lot

Which current Sharks defenseman is better than Ceci?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Sure. As I said, "Usual caveats, this model (and most of them) don't account well for team effects."

He appears to be a middle of the road defenseman on a very good team, so he probably wouldn't be a very good defenseman on our bad team. It does seem debatable whether he would be similar to our already bottom-pair RD. You think no, maybe you're right, maybe he's a worthy 3-4 on our team. I don't have any idea. Nor do I think it'll save us .

As I originally said, I think it would be justifiable to acquire Ceci if we were sufficiently compensated and that my lack of desire to get him overall stems from him just being one of the most unpleasant players in the league to watch in the defensive zone. If we were offered a 2nd to take him, then I would probably begrudgingly do it because our right side is question marks. I think he's maybe a little better than Rutta. If Emberson isn't as good as he was last year and Benning isn't healthy, then sure. But all of that doesn't make Ceci any good and I truly believe he'd look as bad on the Sharks as Kyle Burroughs because of how much time we spend in our defensive zone.

Which current Sharks defenseman is better than Ceci?

Oh jeez. Do you realize you're using the exact opposite of the logic you used to suggest Jake Walman wasn't an NHL player?

When Edmonton is forced to give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick alongside Ceci to dump him, will you stand by your Walman logic and agree that Ceci is not an NHL defenseman?

 

[Pavelski2112]

Which current Sharks defenseman is better than Ceci?

That's such an incredibly low bar to clear

Ceci is awful

 

[Hodge]

Oh jeez. Do you realize you're using the exact opposite of the logic you used to suggest Jake Walman wasn't an NHL player?

When Edmonton is forced to give up a 2nd or 3rd round pick alongside Ceci to dump him, will you stand by your Walman logic and agree that Ceci is not an NHL defenseman?

How can you possibly compare the two? Walman is a 28 year old who has never played a full NHL season in his career. Ceci has been a 20+ minute a night defenseman on a Cup contender for the last three seasons.

That's such an incredibly low bar to clear

Ceci is awful

I don't disagree. That doesn't change the fact he would instantly be our best defenseman.

 

[DG93]

Which current Sharks defenseman is better than Ceci?

Which one isn't?

 

[gaucholoco3]

I think he's maybe a little better than Rutta. If Emberson isn't as good as he was last year and Benning isn't healthy, then sure.

Your own words just gave the argument for him being the best RHD option on the team. I don’t get why it wouldn’t be a net positive to have him on the roster when not giving up any assets.

 

[sampler]

If the sharks can get a quality asset for Ceci, then whats the downside? Worst case scenario, the sharks get the asset and Cici rides the pine.

Edm does not have a 1st or 2nd next year though so not sure what they can offer. A 2026 1st would sure fit the bill, or maybe a 2025 4th rounder + 2026 2nd rounder.

And, if Ceci has a strong year, he might fets another 2nd at the deadline (as was mentioned above).

two seconds and a 4th rounder for, basically, nothing. Ill take it!

 

[Hodge]

Your own words just gave the argument for him being the best RHD option on the team. I don’t get why it wouldn’t be a net positive to have him on the roster when not giving up any assets.

Especially when his extensive playoff experience, right-handed shot and size means he will definitely fetch us a return at the deadline.

I don't even care about getting a sweetener for taking him when we can use him to eat difficult minutes until March then monetize him.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

I’m not interested in offer sheeting anyone. Team is gonna have a lot of interesting decisions to make in 4-5 years and a lot of RFAs will be dangled. Teams don’t forget.

Remember when Chicago came after us

 

[sharski]

The guy has been on the team for nearly 2 decades, how is this still a thing?

it's crazy how so many people think he's been with the Sharks that long... if you look it up, you'll see that he just joined the team 7 years ago

#mandelaeffect

 

[Lebanezer]

it's crazy how so many people think he's been with the Sharks that long... if you look it up, you'll see that he just joined the team 7 years ago

#mandelaeffect

I think we can just send him back to juniors if he doesn’t make the team out of training camp.

 

[one2gamble]

so wait, there are people here who want to give the oilers a lifeline by picking up a trash defenseman and getting basically nothing in return?

 

[OrrNumber4]

The guy has been on the team for nearly 2 decades, how is this still a thing?

It's how his name is supposed to be spelled.

 

[Hodge]

so wait, there are people here who want to give the oilers a lifeline by picking up a trash defenseman and getting basically nothing in return?

Yes because it benefits the Sharks which is the only thing that should matter. I couldn't give less of a shit about "helping" an Oilers team we are not competing with in any meaningful way.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Yes because it benefits the Sharks which is the only thing that should matter. I couldn't give less of a shit about "helping" an Oilers team we are not competing with in any meaningful way.

I agree. The Sharks are not competing on the same timeline as Edmonton. Also they are more screwed about the second year of this contract than this season. Drai and Bouchard both need massive extensions for next season.

 

[hohosaregood]

Edmonton doesn't really have anybody worth stealing tbh. I think Kulak and maybe Henrique are the only non-core guys they have that would be worth looking at. But neither of them would be enough to cover the offer sheets.

 

[The McMafia]

If the sharks can get a quality asset for Ceci, then whats the downside? Worst case scenario, the sharks get the asset and Cici rides the pine.

Edm does not have a 1st or 2nd next year though so not sure what they can offer. A 2026 1st would sure fit the bill, or maybe a 2025 4th rounder + 2026 2nd rounder.

And, if Ceci has a strong year, he might fets another 2nd at the deadline (as was mentioned above).

two seconds and a 4th rounder for, basically, nothing. Ill take it!

If the Oilers blow up next offseason due to the cap, that 2026 first could be a mid-round pick. I'd try to take that and run! A 2nd+ would be acceptable.

Although I think the Oilers let them both go.

 

[tiburon12]

Edmonton doesn't really have anybody worth stealing tbh. I think Kulak and maybe Henrique are the only non-core guys they have that would be worth looking at. But neither of them would be enough to cover the offer sheets.

Kulak was worse than Ceci in the playoffs, relative to expectations

 

[Juxtaposer]

How can you possibly compare the two? Walman is a 28 year old who has never played a full NHL season in his career. Ceci has been a 20+ minute a night defenseman on a Cup contender for the last three seasons.


I don't disagree. That doesn't change the fact he would instantly be our best defenseman.

Your whole schtick was "Walman was treated as a cap dump, ergo he is horrible". I'm asking you if you'll use the same logic when Ceci is treated as a cap dump. Got my answer.

Walman has 200+ NHL games. He's very clearly an NHLer. Ceci has gotten chance after chance because he's a righty and was a high draft pick, not because he's actually any good.

Your own words just gave the argument for him being the best RHD option on the team. I don’t get why it wouldn’t be a net positive to have him on the roster when not giving up any assets.

Maybe he's as good as the rest of our RD. My point is why acquire someone expensive who is objectively terrible when that player is a potentially maybe marginal-at-best improvement on what we have unless we're getting an asset to do so. I don't care for itty bitty upgrades when we have the chance to actually screw another team. And I'm especially not interested in doing Stan Bowman a favor.

 

[TheBeard]

Remember when Chicago came after us

Who did we hve since then worth offer-sheeting?

 

[gaucholoco3]

Maybe he's as good as the rest of our RD. My point is why acquire someone expensive who is objectively terrible when that player is a potentially maybe marginal-at-best improvement on what we have unless we're getting an asset to do so. I don't care for itty bitty upgrades when we have the chance to actually screw another team. And I'm especially not interested in doing Stan Bowman a favor.

First I don’t want to rehash all the similar arguments to Goodrow but how much Ceci makes has no impact on anything other than Hasso’s wallet. So the only thing that matters is if he would help the team which the answer is yes. It would raise the bar for Rutta, Emberson, Benning to get playing time.

Second, I do not want a GM in charge who would refuse to help improve their team because it would also provide a benefit to Stan Bowman. What he did was wrong and should he have a job, no. That doesn’t change the fact he is in that role. So if it’s a good deal you make it. You’re not doing Stan Bowman a favor you are doing the Oilers franchise a favor. Also who cares if it helps a team that will be declining when the Sharks start competing.

 

[sampler]

If the Oilers blow up next offseason due to the cap, that 2026 first could be a mid-round pick. I'd try to take that and run! A 2nd+ would be acceptable.

Although I think the Oilers let them both go.

I too expect them to allow them to walk. I dont see Edm giving up a '26 1st rounder to dump just 3.25M in salary. There has to be a competitive market out there for cap space, and I bet they could find someone to take that salary at a lower price than a 1st rounder.

The ducks, flames jackets, and UHC also have ample space to add 5M+ in cap space.

That said, I would be SO happy if the sharks added tons of picks for their 13M in cap space. 3.4M for two years netted a 2nd for Walman who is a respectable NHL player who played roughly 20 mins/night. So, if 3-3.5M in cap eating is worth a 2nd, the sharks cap space should be good for a pretty nice pick haul (3-4 2nd rounders, or 1 or 2 1sts), not to mention the potential returns flipping them at the deadline if they have value then.

This is a good chance for grier to get value from Hasso's wallet. Hasso is a very wealthy man who really wants the sharks to be great, so I bet Grier could get him to do it.

 

[Hodge]

Your whole schtick was "Walman was treated as a cap dump, ergo he is horrible". I'm asking you if you'll use the same logic when Ceci is treated as a cap dump. Got my answer.

Walman has 200+ NHL games. He's very clearly an NHLer. Ceci has gotten chance after chance because he's a righty and was a high draft pick, not because he's actually any good.

Am I supposed to be impressed that the guy has barely eclipsed 200 games at 28 years old? He's not an established NHLer. Nobody knows what he is, hence the Red Wings being forced to attach a 2nd just to get rid of him.

Ceci is big, right handed and can play 20 minutes a night without getting killed. I'm not at all convinced the Oilers will need to attach any sort of sweetener to move Ceci. Especially since he only has 1 year remaining. They might even be able to trade him for value.

And I'm especially not interested in doing Stan Bowman a favor.

If Mike Grier refuses to improve the Sharks due to a personal vendetta against another GM he should be fired.