Speculation: 2023-24-25 Sharks Roster Discussion

[Sharkz4Fun]

Same reason why he signed Matt Pylon Benning to a 4 year contract.

Dude has no idea what he's doing.

I agree but waiving Lindblom is a good look IMO. First time Grier has tried to correct his own mistake I believe. Definitely surprised me only because I didn't think he had it in him. I mean, how the f*** do you sign a guy who gets bought out to a contract more than he got bought out for? Crazy.

 

[Hodge]

When has San Jose ever been a destination for marquee free agents? Why should that change during a rebuild?

Grier has been busy plugging holes and fixing cracks, so to speak, in order to raise the ground level of completion. Sometimes you give veterans a little more term, or take chances on people rebounding. It doesn't always work, but it's serving a purpose.

Not to mention Lindblom failing to pan out doesn't hurt the Sharks in any way outside of Hasso being on the hook for his salary.

Meanwhile we're still suffering the consequences of Doug Wilson signing a 28 year old with less than 100 games of NHL experience to a 4-year contract. Most other teams probably hadn't even heard of Radim Simek at the time, let alone would have been interested in bidding for him as a UFA. Those are the kinds of mistakes Grier has avoided so far.

 

[Hodge]

I mean, how the f*** do you sign a guy who gets bought out to a contract more than he got bought out for? Crazy.

Lindblom was bought out of a contract paying him 3 million a year and we signed him for 2.5.

There is close to zero risk with the contracts Grier has signed so far so it really doesn't matter when they don't pan out. Even Ferraro can be bought out for pennies on the dollar next offseason if necessary.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Lindblom was bought out of a contract paying him 3 million a year and we signed him for 2.5.

There is close to zero risk with the contracts Grier has signed so far so it really doesn't matter when they don't pan out. Even Ferraro can be bought out for pennies on the dollar next offseason if necessary.

My mistake. Thought it was 2m. Still absurd to even think of offering that to him at the time.

I think you're worrying too much about the monopoly money though. The biggest problem isn't what's in the contracts, it's the contracts themselves. When a GM is signing players just to sign them which is what Grier has been doing (cheaply, as we all know for the most part), he's just adding unnecessary log jams for players with potential. Yes Kyle Burroughs can be buried for nothing if he is atrocious, but what was the point of signing him? To fill a spot for 3 years seeing as he has no potential more than what he is, and clearly had no value for the most part to others? Not a great plan.

Successful rebuilding teams who want to earn assets/be competitive/etc. do not go around adding as many soft scoring wingers and 6/7 defensemen as they can, regardless of how cheap they can get them.

 

[Coily]

Lindblom has been useless from minute 1. Why did Grier sign that guy?

Because our forward group was that bad. He wanted to get some NHL experienced players into the roster and Lindblom was a player that could fill that role. He didn't pan out, move on.

 

[Cas]

I'm pleased with the move to waive Lindblom. I think this shows that Grier is willing to accept that he made a mistake and is willing to cut bait on a guy who has demonstrated that he has no future, despite being one of the signature early moves Grier made.

I do believe he should have just kept Balcers instead of signing Lindblom, though the move was justifiable (basically a bet that Lindblom would return to form being more likely than that Balcers would improve). I think it was a rookie mistake, much like trading a 3rd for Kunin.

I think this off-season has shown much more positive direction from Grier.

 

[Church Hill]

Because our forward group was that bad. He wanted to get some NHL experienced players into the roster and Lindblom was a player that could fill that role.

This is a reasonable take, but this definitely indicates Grier miscalculated here, which is noteworthy as his first sort of obvious mistake.

He didn't pan out, move on.

I'll dwell as long as I damn well please!

 

[LadyStanley]

When has San Jose ever been a destination for marquee free agents? Why should that change during a rebuild?

Gary Suter.

Niedermayer only chose Anaheim because of brother. Stamkos met with Sharks brass/owner.

There was another big name who was interested in coming but Sharks didn't have ability ($$ permission) to sign more than a decade ago. (I'm not remembering the rumored name)

Depends on age (how close to retirement) and whether winning cup is a top priority in the near future. And/or player wants a challenge to change "fortune" (assumed winnability) of team.

 

[TheBeard]

You have no idea what you're talking about if you're seriously comparing Lindblom to Benning.


He can drop the gloves and play a regular shift. Better version of Gadjovich basically. We need a guy like that on the team especially if we're breaking in small soft rookies.

It’s looking like we’re breaking in a whopping two rookies. The lineup is filled with grizzled older guys with an edge. I don’t see the point.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

It’s looking like we’re breaking in a whopping two rookies. The lineup is filled with grizzled older guys with an edge. I don’t see the point.

The only thing resembling an edge for like 10/13 forwards is their skate blades. In this case I think they need much more than Smith.

Imagine Grier not signing Benning/Burroughs and then using that money + a little extra on Gudas instead, also allowing Gawanke/Emberson a spot to actually play.

 

[Hodge]

It’s looking like we’re breaking in a whopping two rookies. The lineup is filled with grizzled older guys with an edge. I don’t see the point.

Protecting those two specific rookies seems kinda important? Also nobody else on the roster has an edge except Burroughs and he's on the smaller side.

My mistake. Thought it was 2m. Still absurd to even think of offering that to him at the time.

I think you're worrying too much about the monopoly money though. The biggest problem isn't what's in the contracts, it's the contracts themselves. When a GM is signing players just to sign them which is what Grier has been doing (cheaply, as we all know for the most part), he's just adding unnecessary log jams for players with potential. Yes Kyle Burroughs can be buried for nothing if he is atrocious, but what was the point of signing him? To fill a spot for 3 years seeing as he has no potential more than what he is, and clearly had no value for the most part to others? Not a great plan.

Successful rebuilding teams who want to earn assets/be competitive/etc. do not go around adding as many soft scoring wingers and 6/7 defensemen as they can, regardless of how cheap they can get them.

Successful rebuilding teams absolutely sign veterans not just to fill roster spots while the prospects are cooking but to then flip them for those assets you're referring to. Not every acquisition like this is going to work out, obviously, which is why it's important to limit risk by not committing to long or expensive contracts for these players.

We're still at the stage of the rebuild where we haven't even drafted most of the players we're going to build around yet. Nobody is NHL ready except maybe Eklund, and it looks like he has made the roster anyway even with all the veterans supposedly blocking his path.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Protecting those two specific rookies seems kinda important? Also nobody else on the roster has an edge except Burroughs and he's on the smaller side.

Successful rebuilding teams absolutely sign veterans not just to fill roster spots while the prospects are cooking but to then flip them for those assets you're referring to. Not every acquisition like this is going to work out, obviously, which is why it's important to limit risk by not committing to long or expensive contracts for these players.

We're still at the stage of the rebuild where we haven't even drafted most of the players we're going to build around yet. Nobody is NHL ready except maybe Eklund, and it looks like he has made the roster anyway even with all the veterans supposedly blocking his path.

I mean there's a pretty big difference in the quality of rebuilding teams, just comparing Chicago/SJ for now, in adding Perry/Foligno/Hall compared to Granlund/Duclair/Hoffman. The former group you don't even need to flip to help contribute. One adds a much higher skill ceiling and the other two will show the young players the tougher side. The latter group you are praying will play well enough to get even just a 5th and provide absolutely no value in the long run to other players around them.

Regardless, we are shown none of Grier's UFA moves have "worked out". As long as he continues to show an ability to realize mistakes that's good news.

 

[Sysreq]

Protecting those two specific rookies seems kinda important? Also nobody else on the roster has an edge except Burroughs and he's on the smaller side.

Successful rebuilding teams absolutely sign veterans not just to fill roster spots while the prospects are cooking but to then flip them for those assets you're referring to. Not every acquisition like this is going to work out, obviously, which is why it's important to limit risk by not committing to long or expensive contracts for these players.

We're still at the stage of the rebuild where we haven't even drafted most of the players we're going to build around yet. Nobody is NHL ready except maybe Eklund, and it looks like he has made the roster anyway even with all the veterans supposedly blocking his path.

Hodge's point needs to be reiterated. A 2-year contract on a guy like Lindblom is nothing in the scheme of things. Same with Hoffman if and when he ends up not being tradeable at the deadline. At this stage of the rebuild you take risks like this on the off chance it nets you a small reward. You work with what you can get. It would be sweet if Connor McDavid wanted to sign a 1-year deal so we can trade him for a boatload of 1sts, but that's not reality. Most players want consistency, not to be trade bait on a bad-team hoping they can restart their career. If you could rush player development by throwing them into the NHL then Edmonton would be awash in Stanley Cups. The time horizon for a rebuild like this is 3-5 years. Not two drafts and one regular season.

 

[Hodge]

I mean there's a pretty big difference in the quality of rebuilding teams, just comparing Chicago/SJ for now, in adding Perry/Foligno/Hall compared to Granlund/Duclair/Hoffman. The former group you don't even need to flip to help contribute. One adds a much higher skill ceiling and the other two will show the young players the tougher side. The latter group you are praying will play well enough to get even just a 5th and provide absolutely no value in the long run to other players around them.

Regardless, we are shown not a single UFA Grier move so far has "worked out". As long as he continues to show an ability to realize mistakes that's good news.

Benning worked out. A team like Vancouver would probably give up a 3rd round pick+ to get a right shot on the contract Benning is on who played as well as he did last season. Sturm also clearly worked out providing 3C value for just 2 million. Lorentz is another Grier acquisition that worked out, signed to a value contract they were able to turn into a 30 goal scorer. The only ones that haven't are Lindblom and Nutivaara, both cases where Grier bet on a player with an injury history.

 

[Hodge]

Another point is that even when the Sharks were perennial contenders we had a tough time attracting any free agents outside marginal depth guys or formerly good players at the tail end of their careers.

Grier does need to overpay to a certain extent to get anybody to play here right now but so far he has wisely either kept the term short (Lindblom, Kunin) or spread the money out over enough years to make the cap hit fully buryable (Benning, Burroughs).

 

[SjMilhouse]

Another point is that even when the Sharks were perennial contenders we had a tough time attracting any free agents outside marginal depth guys or formerly good players at the tail end of their careers.

Grier does need to overpay to a certain extent to get anybody to play here right now but so far he has wisely either kept the term short (Lindblom, Kunin) or spread the money out over enough years to make the cap hit fully buryable (Benning, Burroughs).

Is that why we had to pay Burish 7.2m over 4 years to come in 2012? Had to overpay on term to get those stars

Going through the list it's wild some of the moves Wilson made. Ward/Martin in 2015 was great (touch longer than you'd want) but then immediately follows that up the next year with Boedker for $16m over 4 years.

 

[Barrie22]

I mean there's a pretty big difference in the quality of rebuilding teams, just comparing Chicago/SJ for now, in adding Perry/Foligno/Hall compared to Granlund/Duclair/Hoffman. The former group you don't even need to flip to help contribute. One adds a much higher skill ceiling and the other two will show the young players the tougher side. The latter group you are praying will play well enough to get even just a 5th and provide absolutely no value in the long run to other players around them.

Regardless, we are shown none of Grier's UFA moves have "worked out". As long as he continues to show an ability to realize mistakes that's good news.

I mean Chicago after the draft that changed there rebuild from being a rebuild to it now being a retool quickly. Bedard changes the way Chicago needs to think about how they do the rebuild, and it would of been the same for San Jose if we drafted Bedard to.

 

[mogambomoroo]

To the posters bashing MG, please give him couple of years before judging.

IMO MG has put this ship on the right course, with having two good drafts, managed to get Thrun with 3rd round pick and has been pretty active picking waiver player that have decent value relatively.

Managed to trade out players that hurt our rebuild and overall got value back.

Of course he signed couple of players that haven't been good, but MG seems to be at least acknowledging what the problems are and has acted accordingly.

All of this in one year.

 

[Jargon]

To the posters bashing MG, please give him couple of years before judging.

IMO MG has put this ship on the right course, with having two good drafts, managed to get Thrun with 3rd round pick and has been pretty active picking waiver player that have decent value relatively.

Managed to trade out players that hurt our rebuild and overall got value back.

Of course he signed couple of players that haven't been good, but MG seems to be at least acknowledging what the problems are and has acted accordingly.

All of this in one year.

Agreed, I feel far more excited about this team now than I was 2 years ago. We’re in a rebuild, but our prospect base has had a dramatic turnaround and I actually think this team, despite losing a lot, will be fun to watch.

 

[Alaskanice]

To the posters bashing MG, please give him couple of years before judging.

IMO MG has put this ship on the right course, with having two good drafts, managed to get Thrun with 3rd round pick and has been pretty active picking waiver player that have decent value relatively.

Managed to trade out players that hurt our rebuild and overall got value back.

Of course he signed couple of players that haven't been good, but MG seems to be at least acknowledging what the problems are and has acted accordingly.

All of this in one year.

We could win the Stanley Cup this year and someone will bash.

 

[Groo]

I'd like to see the Sharks closing Kubel off waviers. He'd be a great 4th line energy player

 

[Patty Ice]

much like trading a 3rd for Kunin

I'm still ok with that deal. I think Kunin could be in for a solid season. But I've always been a fan of him.

 

[Sendhelplease]

Lindblom was a lottery ticket hoping he could recover his skills when he was a useful top 6 forward and only a battle with Cancer as the reason his game suffered.

These are exactly the signings the Sharks should have made last year. They aren’t competing and if he does turn it around they have a cheep top 6 FW to flip for assets.

Yup, the Lindblom signing was a good process bad outcome. I can't get angry at that.

 

[Hodge]

I'm still ok with that deal. I think Kunin could be in for a solid season. But I've always been a fan of him.

Kunin's still young enough at 25 that he could conceivably take a step forward to become a 20G 20A guy. Even if that doesn't happen we can probably recoup the 3rd by trading him at the deadline.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'm still ok with that deal. I think Kunin could be in for a solid season. But I've always been a fan of him.

I didn't really like his process on this one though. He hadn't hired any of his own staff or pro scouts at that point and made that move without up to date info from a staff he trusted.