Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Offseason Edition

[Cousin Eddie]

That was Cousin Eddie's scenario.

JTC + Monahan doesn't work. PLD + Monahan works. Hope it's clearer!

I didn’t create any scenario where JTC was the 2C. What are you talking about? I said I’d like to sign him if we can get him on a value deal but not to be the 2C.

The Avs have one person currently under contract who is an NHL level centre at any capacity and that’s Nathan Mackinnon. They need multiple centres.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I just want one of PLD or Lindholm, and Mittelstadt.

Mack - Lindholm - Mittelstadt - Meyers down the middle.

 

[Mighty Makar]

I’m with @Cousin Eddie, I wouldn’t mind Monahan on a 1 year deal worth no more than $2M. I’d rather get a real 2nd line center, with term, though.

 

[niwotsblessing]

Compher sucks. He's not a 3C on a team in a prime Cup window.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Compher sucks. He's not a 3C on a team in a prime Cup window.

I mean he was a 3C on a cup winner?

 

[John Mandalorian]

I’m with @Cousin Eddie, I wouldn’t mind Monahan on a 1 year deal worth no more than $2M. I’d rather get a real 2nd line center, with term, though.

How much are you going to pay his replacement for the other 2/3 of the season when he's injured?

 

[Toothless Legend]

Sure to an extent… and to an extent the reports help in trades down the line.

Here’s the rub though… scouts work hard and like anybody they want to feel they are contributing to the organization. If they don’t feel that way, the good ones will eventually move on for better opportunities. Right now they are basically working to get a chance at 2 or 3 guys hovering around 75-90 on the internal list. Guys they don’t feel have much of a chance of contributing.

I imagine this has a similar effect on attracting high quality scouts into the organization. If you're known as an org that never has 1st-3rd round picks, probably makes it harder for new, up and coming scouting talent to see this is a great org to grow, build a resume, and overall make an impact.

 

[redacted]

I’m with @Cousin Eddie, I wouldn’t mind Monahan on a 1 year deal worth no more than $2M. I’d rather get a real 2nd line center, with term, though.

Anything over $1m is just wasted cap space.

Personally, I think Monahan would be a bad move. His body is completely broken. If it somehow held up through the deadline, I can't see it holding up through the season and playoffs. Add to that, he plays with an incredibly slow pace now. Unless the Avs want to change their style.. he's nothing more than a guy you try to get 7-9 minutes out of 5v5 and a 2nd unit PP guy here.

To me, get two good defensive players with skating and/or size for the bottom six. Preferably one that is a true center. Kampf or Haula (not both considering the contracts they are likely to get) would be one of my top targets. Haula isn't a true center, but he's a swiss army knife style guy who can play there. Kampf would be my top target. Good defensive center who isn't a complete black hole offensively. If you get Kampf... go out and get a buzzsaw... Miles Wood would be ideal there. Then via trade... get a promising 2C on a good deal. PLD would be a very solid choice with some 1 year risk to him. Wouldn't mind that move at all though. Mittelstadt adds risk, but showed a lot of promise last season. Even for argument sake (and this isn't proper value) G for Fatty... you could end up with a forward group like:

Newhook-MacK-Rants
Lehky-Fatty-Nuke
Wood-Kampf-LOC

Ideally you'd push one of LOC or Wood to the 4th line, but even as it sits.... Newhook gets a run as a pure 3rd wheel top 6 guy. If he can't cut it there, you upgrade that at the deadline (plenty of wings are always available). Lehky and Nuke make space for Fatty to work (worry about a finisher on that line though). The 3rd line is speed, effort and defense.... and occasional dumb play that you have to live with. The 4th line can be backfilled with guys that get left in the cold on sub $1m deals. Plus Pavel and Meyers give some options too. Pavel has a good chance at being a great faceoff and PK guy from the get go. Won't really add anything else.

Defense with this pans out to:

Toews-Makar
Byram-Manson
___-Malinski
Dermy

It rushes Malinsky into a role and there is injury risk with Manson. This type of roster though, should give room to add a very solid LD. Try to find a younger guy who is a 4/5 or a chaser that is willing for a 1 year sort of deal. If the deals come in cheap for Wood/Kampf, Gavrikov would be a nice add. If they don't, try to get a get a Cup chaser.

There are holes in this roster, but it can be made to work within the cap. It also leaves flexibility for moves. If Newhook doesn't work, trade him, a first and whatever prospect for Guentzel or DeBrusk. If Manson gets hurt, grab whatever physical RD is out there at the deadline (and don't re-sign them). If Fatty doesn't work... you might be F'd... Which is the whole crux of the offseason. The 2C spot has to get a solution and honestly has to work.

 

[thedoctor]

I’d offer JTC 8 years, 3.85M AAV to see if he bites. That’s around 30M total. For some perspective, a 5 year, 5.5M AAV deal is 27.5M total which is what we expect he’ll get on the open market.

He’s not a 2C. That’s been proven. But this team is thin down the middle and getting him on great value at the expense of a few extra years is something I’d be all over. You need depth. I just don’t think he would take that type of deal without dipping his toe into the market first.

No. nononononononono. No.

I just can't handle his negative impact on offense anymore, it's miserable to watch. Don't take this from me, it's the only thing I have to look forward to next year in the midst of all this cap crunch / No2C / Landy / Nuke shit.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Drouin Mackinnon Nuke
Lehky Lindholm Rantanen
Sillinger Monahan Compher
Foudy Foudy LOC
Cogs



Eyeball emoji

 

[redacted]

Drouin Mackinnon Nuke
Lehky Lindholm Rantanen
Sillinger Monahan Compher
Foudy Foudy LOC
Cogs



Eyeball emoji

Needs Domi, Z, Lazar, Mantha, and Dano for more 2013 vibes

 

[EdAVSfan]

Anything over $1m is just wasted cap space.

Personally, I think Monahan would be a bad move. His body is completely broken. If it somehow held up through the deadline, I can't see it holding up through the season and playoffs. Add to that, he plays with an incredibly slow pace now. Unless the Avs want to change their style.. he's nothing more than a guy you try to get 7-9 minutes out of 5v5 and a 2nd unit PP guy here.

To me, get two good defensive players with skating and/or size for the bottom six. Preferably one that is a true center. Kampf or Haula (not both considering the contracts they are likely to get) would be one of my top targets. Haula isn't a true center, but he's a swiss army knife style guy who can play there. Kampf would be my top target. Good defensive center who isn't a complete black hole offensively. If you get Kampf... go out and get a buzzsaw... Miles Wood would be ideal there. Then via trade... get a promising 2C on a good deal. PLD would be a very solid choice with some 1 year risk to him. Wouldn't mind that move at all though. Mittelstadt adds risk, but showed a lot of promise last season. Even for argument sake (and this isn't proper value) G for Fatty... you could end up with a forward group like:

Newhook-MacK-Rants
Lehky-Fatty-Nuke
Wood-Kampf-LOC

Ideally you'd push one of LOC or Wood to the 4th line, but even as it sits.... Newhook gets a run as a pure 3rd wheel top 6 guy. If he can't cut it there, you upgrade that at the deadline (plenty of wings are always available). Lehky and Nuke make space for Fatty to work (worry about a finisher on that line though). The 3rd line is speed, effort and defense.... and occasional dumb play that you have to live with. The 4th line can be backfilled with guys that get left in the cold on sub $1m deals. Plus Pavel and Meyers give some options too. Pavel has a good chance at being a great faceoff and PK guy from the get go. Won't really add anything else.

Defense with this pans out to:

Toews-Makar
Byram-Manson
___-Malinski
Dermy

It rushes Malinsky into a role and there is injury risk with Manson. This type of roster though, should give room to add a very solid LD. Try to find a younger guy who is a 4/5 or a chaser that is willing for a 1 year sort of deal. If the deals come in cheap for Wood/Kampf, Gavrikov would be a nice add. If they don't, try to get a get a Cup chaser.

There are holes in this roster, but it can be made to work within the cap. It also leaves flexibility for moves. If Newhook doesn't work, trade him, a first and whatever prospect for Guentzel or DeBrusk. If Manson gets hurt, grab whatever physical RD is out there at the deadline (and don't re-sign them). If Fatty doesn't work... you might be F'd... Which is the whole crux of the offseason. The 2C spot has to get a solution and honestly has to work.

Who’s fatty?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Who’s fatty?

Mittelfat

 

[Balthazar]

Anything over $1m is just wasted cap space.

Personally, I think Monahan would be a bad move. His body is completely broken. If it somehow held up through the deadline, I can't see it holding up through the season and playoffs. Add to that, he plays with an incredibly slow pace now. Unless the Avs want to change their style.. he's nothing more than a guy you try to get 7-9 minutes out of 5v5 and a 2nd unit PP guy here.

To me, get two good defensive players with skating and/or size for the bottom six. Preferably one that is a true center. Kampf or Haula (not both considering the contracts they are likely to get) would be one of my top targets. Haula isn't a true center, but he's a swiss army knife style guy who can play there. Kampf would be my top target. Good defensive center who isn't a complete black hole offensively. If you get Kampf... go out and get a buzzsaw... Miles Wood would be ideal there. Then via trade... get a promising 2C on a good deal. PLD would be a very solid choice with some 1 year risk to him. Wouldn't mind that move at all though. Mittelstadt adds risk, but showed a lot of promise last season. Even for argument sake (and this isn't proper value) G for Fatty... you could end up with a forward group like:

Newhook-MacK-Rants
Lehky-Fatty-Nuke
Wood-Kampf-LOC

Ideally you'd push one of LOC or Wood to the 4th line, but even as it sits.... Newhook gets a run as a pure 3rd wheel top 6 guy. If he can't cut it there, you upgrade that at the deadline (plenty of wings are always available). Lehky and Nuke make space for Fatty to work (worry about a finisher on that line though). The 3rd line is speed, effort and defense.... and occasional dumb play that you have to live with. The 4th line can be backfilled with guys that get left in the cold on sub $1m deals. Plus Pavel and Meyers give some options too. Pavel has a good chance at being a great faceoff and PK guy from the get go. Won't really add anything else.

Defense with this pans out to:

Toews-Makar
Byram-Manson
___-Malinski
Dermy

It rushes Malinsky into a role and there is injury risk with Manson. This type of roster though, should give room to add a very solid LD. Try to find a younger guy who is a 4/5 or a chaser that is willing for a 1 year sort of deal. If the deals come in cheap for Wood/Kampf, Gavrikov would be a nice add. If they don't, try to get a get a Cup chaser.

There are holes in this roster, but it can be made to work within the cap. It also leaves flexibility for moves. If Newhook doesn't work, trade him, a first and whatever prospect for Guentzel or DeBrusk. If Manson gets hurt, grab whatever physical RD is out there at the deadline (and don't re-sign them). If Fatty doesn't work... you might be F'd... Which is the whole crux of the offseason. The 2C spot has to get a solution and honestly has to work.

You've been very vocal about wanting a real 2C and that it's time to stop with the half measures at that position but you'd be comfortable going with Mittelstadt at 2C next year?

I didn’t create any scenario where JTC was the 2C. What are you talking about? I said I’d like to sign him if we can get him on a value deal but not to be the 2C.

My point was if it's Monahan penciled at 2C and you have JTC on the roster then JTC will end up at 2C.

In either scenario, Monahan is the problem.

No. Monahan isn't a problem unless you count on him. If not he's either on LTIR or a nice bonus.

 

[redacted]

You've been very vocal about wanting a real 2C and that it's time to stop with the half measures at that position but you'd be comfortable going with Mittelstadt at 2C next year?


My point was if it's Monahan penciled at 2C and you have JTC in the lineup then JTC will end up at 2C.


No. Monahan isn't a problem unless you count on him. If not he's either on LTIR or a nice bonus.

Comfortable... not really. Plausible solution, absolutely. You're confusing them. Comfortable is getting PLD, Scheifele, Lindholm, etc. Plausible solutions, Hayes, Fatty, Frost, etc.

People were simply not paying attention to how good Mittelstadt was last season, especially in the 2nd half. His development has been rocked by Krueger and injuries, but the trend is up and significantly so. It has been for a few seasons if health permitted. It would be a risk, but a calculated one. If it works, you get a 2C for one season at 2.5m who is a RFA that you can extend long term to be a part of the core. If it doesn't well you're kinda F'd.

IMO the Avs are in a tough spot. You can go various routes, but the two most rewarding paths are getting the flawed sure thing (say Scheifele) as you know you get a guy who can work, but teams are getting rid of those guys for reasons. Or go the up and coming young path with carries risk of level of play, but potential rewards of cap space and a longer than 1 year solution.

Going the random formerly good player like Monahan or Toews has very little chance of succeeding IMO. Going for the guy who formerly played center, is over 30, and regressing path (Henrique) also has little chance of working.

 

[davalanche96]

Drouin-MacKinnon-Rantanen
Lehkonen-Lindhom-Nishushkin
Bunting-Domi-Cogliano
Hathaway-Perry-LOC

Toews-Makar
Byram-Manson
Gudas-Schenn

 

[GirardSpinorama]

How about O'Reilly? He had good moments in the playoffs.

 

[Mighty Makar]

How about O'Reilly? He had good moments in the playoffs.

He’s slow and most likely wants $6M.

 

[redacted]

How about O'Reilly? He had good moments in the playoffs.

He had 2 good games from what I saw, but looked behind the play the vast majority of the time. He could probably be a 3C or wing, but his days as a top 6 center are likely over.

 

[Pokecheque]

How about O'Reilly? He had good moments in the playoffs.

No. The Leafs used him as a 2C and he was bad (which I predicted), the moment Keefe finally came to his senses and used him as a 3C like he was supposed to, Toronto was a lot more effective. That said, I think Toronto got caved in every time he took the ice in that Panthers series, but I can't be sure.

O'Reilly's been on a (surprising) decline for the last couple years. He's no longer a top six guy and I don't put faith in him bouncing back. Whoever signs him this offseason will likely come to regret it.

But it's also likely a moot point. I don't see either side having any desire to rekindle things.

 

[redacted]

No. The Leafs used him as a 2C and he was bad (which I predicted), the moment Keefe finally came to his senses and used him as a 3C like he was supposed to, Toronto was a lot more effective. That said, I think Toronto got caved in every time he took the ice in that Panthers series, but I can't be sure.

O'Reilly's been on a (surprising) decline for the last couple years. He's no longer a top six guy and I don't put faith in him bouncing back. Whoever signs him this offseason will likely come to regret it.

But it's also likely a moot point. I don't see either side having any desire to rekindle things.

<--Checks ROR's age

Yeah it makes total sense.

ROR has been on a steady decline since he won the Cup. The bottom is just falling out now. He's probably got one season left where the fountain of youth is found, but mostly he's going to be bottom 6 center or middle 6 wing for the next few years until he retires at 36/37.

 

[The Abusement Park]

You've been very vocal about wanting a real 2C and that it's time to stop with the half measures at that position but you'd be comfortable going with Mittelstadt at 2C next year?

At least with Fatty theres upside, he’s cheap with control and recent development that’s trending very well. There’s none of that with Monahan.

 

[Pokecheque]

<--Checks ROR's age

Yeah it makes total sense.

ROR has been on a steady decline since he won the Cup. The bottom is just falling out now. He's probably got one season left where the fountain of youth is found, but mostly he's going to be bottom 6 center or middle 6 wing for the next few years until he retires at 36/37.

I just thought if there was a guy whose game would age amazingly well, it would be him. We saw Joe Thornton remain an elite talent well into his thirties, and I figured O'Reilly would at least remain at or near a top six level for a few more years at least. He's obviously not as big nor as skilled as Jumbo Joe, but like Thornton his game is not predicated on speed and he's effective without being overtly physical, so the wear-and-tear of the game shouldn't have factored in like it would with a guy like, say, Ryan Callahan.

I did not anticipate him losing a step as profoundly as he did, once that happened everything else just sorta fell apart.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I want a world without JTC and Monahan.

I actually gave a lot of pause to @Cousin Eddie offer of 3.85M x 8 years to JTC. The last few years will suck, but we've said that about every single contract we've signed since Landeskog's. But that's not a bad price and in 8 years time the cap should go up enough that he's probably still worth it. Bednar absolutely loves JTC and I must admit he is pretty useful considering he can play center and either wing and while he isn't a second line center, his effort has been remarkably more consistent since the Jost trade. If I was CMac and JTC was open to this, frankly I'd do it with little hesitation.

 

[Pokecheque]

I actually gave a lot of pause to @Cousin Eddie offer of 3.85M x 8 years to JTC. The last few years will suck, but we've said that about every single contract we've signed since Landeskog's. But that's not a bad price and in 8 years time the cap should go up enough that he's probably still worth it. Bednar absolutely loves JTC and I must admit he is pretty useful considering he can play center and either wing and while he isn't a second line center, his effort has been remarkably more consistent since the Jost trade. If I was CMac and JTC was open to this, frankly I'd do it with little hesitation.

Oh FECK no to that. No no no no no. Absolutely not. You do not sign lower-tier players to max term. Not ever. That would be a f***ing terrible contract.

I wish JTC well, he's done everything he could to elevate his game, especially in light of the absolutely monstrous burden he was given this year. But he is a bottom six forward who will likely get a sweet deal. And good for him, as a person he more than deserves it. But I don't want the Avs to be the ones to give it to him. The Hawks should be the ones to bring their hometown boy back, and really, given how well he played in United Center over the years, he might actually be of ideal value with any contract they give him.