Rumor: 2023-2024 Trade Rumors and Free Agency: Off-season is in full swing

[Avs9296]

Vegas (the bookies not the hockey team) has Colorado favoured to win the cup next year out of any other NHL team. Last time I checked they arent out there to lose money, so obviously the Avs have a better team than some of us around here think.

Are we a slam dunk to win the cup, hell no. No one is really. NHL has too much parity. But we are definitely in the mix (and according to Vegas the favourite).

 

[henchman21]

Vegas (the bookies not the hockey team) has Colorado favoured to win the cup next year out of any other NHL team. Last time I checked they arent out there to lose money, so obviously the Avs have a better team than some of us around here think.

Are we a slam dunk to win the cup, hell no. No one is really. NHL has too much parity. But we are definitely in the mix (and according to Vegas the favourite).

Boston is #3 then… and yeesh look at that roster.

 

[forsbergavs32]

Vegas (the bookies not the hockey team) has Colorado favoured to win the cup next year out of any other NHL team. Last time I checked they arent out there to lose money, so obviously the Avs have a better team than some of us around here think.

Are we a slam dunk to win the cup, hell no. No one is really. NHL has too much parity. But we are definitely in the mix (and according to Vegas the favourite).

Impossible, this team is worse than the 17-18 team I hear

 

[Foppa2118]

Also… this Stars conversation never ceases to irritate me.

Every year since the Stars scored a bad late goal in Game 7 on the Avs 3rd goalie Michael Hutchinson, and then won in OT, we talk about them being the Avs kryptonite here.

Meanwhile, with a starting goaltender the Avs have a Stanley Cup in that time, have finished higher in the standings each season, and still have a youngish core with a bright future.

 

[Avaholic29]

Every year since the Stars scored a bad late goal in Game 7 on the Avs 3rd goalie Michael Hutchinson, and then won in OT, we talk about them being the Avs kryptonite here.

Meanwhile, with a starting goaltender the Avs have a Stanley Cup in that time, have finished higher in the standings each season, and still have a youngish core with a bright future.

Nailed it.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Jesus, now Winnipeg is projected to clear Colorado by ten points, while the latter drops to a wild card spot.

This off-season can’t end soon enough. Enough f***ing nonsense. Drop the puck.

Also… this Stars conversation never ceases to irritate me.

I respect them, and I think I was one of the 1st on this board last year to say they were a legit threat. Still feel the same way, but the incredibly rosy view of their future/roster in comparison to Colorado is puzzling to me.

How is it even remotely puzzling?

Look at the prospects they have in the farm on top of a core that is on average ~2-3 years younger then our core.

I agree that they're not better then us right now, closer to equal but in a 7 game series I still take our group today over them.

But the core is younger, and they have 3-4 really top tier prospects that will make them even stronger in ~2 years time while our window will be ended.

 

[JLo217]

I saw him play in Utah back in 2015/16.

 

[NateTheGreat]

It’s perplexing to me that in 3 years time, a roster with a 30 year old Nate Mackinnon, a 29 year old Mikko Rantanen, a 27 year old Cale Makar and a 25 year old Bowen Byram wouldn’t be considered in a cup window. These are special special players (projecting abit for Byram). Count them out if you want to, I sure won’t.

It won’t be as dominant as the 2022 team, but no other team in the last 2 decades was either(maybe the Kings team).

Fill in the gaps around them and enjoy the ride. Don’t take these years for granted because some sports organizations haven’t ever even had the privilege of having players of this caliber.

 

[95snipes]

How is it even remotely puzzling?

Look at the prospects they have in the farm on top of a core that is on average ~2-3 years younger then our core.

I agree that they're not better then us right now, closer to equal but in a 7 game series I still take our group today over them.

But the core is younger, and they have 3-4 really top tier prospects that will make them even stronger in ~2 years time while our window will be ended.

Like who? I would take Ritchie and Gulyayev over Stankoven and Bischel. And I would have said that on June 27th too.

St Louis is the team in the division that I feel has a solid pool.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Like who? I would take Ritchie and Gulyayev over Stankoven and Bischel. And I would have said that on June 27th too.

St Louis is the team in the division that I feel has a solid pool.

Lol, I'm sure you would.

It’s perplexing to me that in 3 years time, a roster with a 30 year old Nate Mackinnon, a 29 year old Mikko Rantanen, a 27 year old Cale Makar and a 25 year old Bowen Byram wouldn’t be considered in a cup window. These are special special players (projecting abit for Byram). Count them out if you want to, I sure won’t.

It won’t be as dominant as the 2022 team, but no other team in the last 2 decades was either(maybe the Kings team).

Fill in the gaps around them and enjoy the ride. Don’t take these years for granted because some sports organizations haven’t ever even had the privilege of having players of this caliber.

Well for starters, those guys will all be turning 31/30/28 before the season 10% completed that year.


They simply aren't nearly as young as many of you want to believe and the science and data is pretty damning about the play drop-off when you hit 29/30, star players included.

 

[chet1926]

Ah I see we are back to the Vegas favors the Avs bit, so we must be good argument.

While Vegas isn't in the business of losing money, odds are fickle. I mean they are looking at 29, 8 and 96 and giving us a boost. Anytime you have those 3 you'll be competitive.

The Avs don't even have the best on paper roster in the West. I'd put Vegas and Dallas above us and Edmonton and LA fairly equal to us. And this doesn't even take into consideration the East.

We'll be fine, but the roster as is isn't a Cup caliber roster.

 

[lionsDen]

Dallas looks identical to last season and we won the division whilst being completely dismantled with injuries all over the line up lol, these boards are in a bad state right now. A lot of crow to eat for some of these posters coming soon. Colton and johansen are astronomical playoff upgrades on compher and Newhook too, not even in the same ballpark.

At the very least we can probably win a face off

 

[NateTheGreat]

Well for starters, those guys will all be turning 31/30/28 before the season 10% completed that year.


They simply aren't nearly as young as many of you want to believe and the science and data is pretty damning about the play drop-off when you hit 29/30, star players included.

I meant after the 2 years that is supposedly our window. The 3rd season after this off-season.

I’m well aware of the data. Makar and Byram will be in the absolute prime for defenseman. Imagine that pairing eating 27-28 mins a night in the playoffs with more man strength than today. Nate’s had a different career arc than most other superstar #1 picks. There is an outcome that Nate’s most productive years of his career will be these next 3. There are exceptions to rules, let’s hope these guys are it.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

How is it even remotely puzzling?

Look at the prospects they have in the farm on top of a core that is on average ~2-3 years younger then our core.

I agree that they're not better then us right now, closer to equal but in a 7 game series I still take our group today over them.

But the core is younger, and they have 3-4 really top tier prospects that will make them even stronger in ~2 years time while our window will be ended.

Because their star core Robertson/Ott/Heisk doesn’t include a centre.

Hintz is the same age as Mikko. Makar is the same age as Robertson. Byram is younger than Heiskanen. MacKinnon at age 31 is probably still going to be better than any centre prospect /young existing roster player on the Dallas roster.

I know they have Johnston as a C, but he’s unlikely to hit top line level. I think Dallas relies just as much, if not more than Colorado does on veterans to lift up their lineup. Most of their vets, are older than the ones on the Avs too.

I’m not even saying Colorado’s staying power is infinite. I just don’t see Dallas as a having any better longevity. If you asked me about teams like New Jersey and Buffalo, for sure I’d say their window of opportunity is much wider than the Avs.

 

[henchman21]

Sidney Crosby won his last Cup at 29. Datsuyk 29. Ovi 31. Sakic 31. Foppa 27. Gretzky 27. Mario 26. There are exceptions for sure, but some of the absolute best players ever won their last Cup in their late 20s. Some get barely into their 30s… 31-32 maybe. After that if they win, they win more in the fashion that Kessel won last season.

The Ray Bourque situation of winning old AF and being a key piece is one of the rarest things in hockey.

 

[henchman21]

Because their star core Robertson/Ott/Heisk doesn’t include a centre.

Hintz is the same age as Mikko. Makar is the same age as Robertson. Byram is younger than Heiskanen. MacKinnon at age 31 is probably still going to be better than any centre prospect /young existing roster player on the Dallas roster.

I know they have Johnston as a C, but he’s unlikely to hit top line level. I think Dallas relies just as much, if not more than Colorado does on veterans to lift up their lineup. Most of their vets, are older than the ones on the Avs too.

I’m not even saying Colorado’s staying power is infinite. I just don’t see Dallas as a having any better longevity. If you asked me about teams like New Jersey and Buffalo, for sure I’d say their window of opportunity is much wider than the Avs.

Stars staying power will be how their prospects and picks develop (their pool is significantly stronger than the Avs). I don’t think they have staying power of 4-5-6 years, but with the data we have today, they look like one of the very best teams in the west. As complete as any team in the west with reserves and assets coming along.

New Jersey IMO is the team to beat in general. Schmid is the only question and I think he’s a solid chance at answering.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Nate’s the oldest of the core 4. Let’s say our window closes completely after his age 32 season ends. That’s another 5 seasons. The other 3 will still even have one or two prime years left at that point. It’s just nonsense that our window is closing in 2 years. To each their own I guess.

 

[NorthernAvsFan]

Stars staying power will be how their prospects and picks develop (their pool is significantly stronger than the Avs). I don’t think they have staying power of 4-5-6 years, but with the data we have today, they look like one of the very best teams in the west. As complete as any team in the west with reserves and assets coming along.

New Jersey IMO is the team to beat in general. Schmid is the only question and I think he’s a solid chance at answering.

Agree on Jersey, they will be a wagon for years. Colorado will be six feet under while they’re still competing for cups.

I don’t disagree on Dallas either. I think they’re going to ice a great team this year. I just like what Colorado has a little more.

 

[Avaholic29]

Ah I see we are back to the Vegas favors the Avs bit, so we must be good argument.

While Vegas isn't in the business of losing money, odds are fickle. I mean they are looking at 29, 8 and 96 and giving us a boost. Anytime you have those 3 you'll be competitive.

The Avs don't even have the best on paper roster in the West. I'd put Vegas and Dallas above us and Edmonton and LA fairly equal to us. And this doesn't even take into consideration the East.

We'll be fine, but the roster as is isn't a Cup caliber roster.

How does Vegas roster resemble a cup winning team but the avs dont? genuine question, what sets them apart? I don’t see it at all.

 

[henchman21]

Agree on Jersey, they will be a wagon for years. Colorado will be six feet under while they’re still competing for cups.

I don’t disagree on Dallas either. I think they’re going to ice a great team this year. I just like what Colorado has a little more.

Reasonable… I also think we are a bit too early for absolutes. I’d certainly have the Stars ahead today… but say Avs grab Tank and Kane for league min deals…. Well that changes. Stars get Pesce and Avs don’t do anything, Stars make a leap forward over everyone in the west very clearly.

 

[Avaholic29]

Reasonable… I also think we are a bit too early for absolutes. I’d certainly have the Stars ahead today… but say Avs grab Tank and Kane for league min deals…. Well that changes. Stars get Pesce and Avs don’t do anything, Stars make a leap forward over everyone in the west very clearly.

Let me get this straight, you think the avs need tank AND kane to be on the stars level?

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Because their star core Robertson/Ott/Heisk doesn’t include a centre.

Hintz is the same age as Mikko. Makar is the same age as Robertson. Byram is younger than Heiskanen. MacKinnon at age 31 is probably still going to be better than any centre prospect /young existing roster player on the Dallas roster.

I know they have Johnston as a C, but he’s unlikely to hit top line level. I think Dallas relies just as much, if not more than Colorado does on veterans to lift up their lineup. Most of their vets, are older than the ones on the Avs too.

I’m not even saying Colorado’s staying power is infinite. I just don’t see Dallas as a having any better longevity. If you asked me about teams like New Jersey and Buffalo, for sure I’d say their window of opportunity is much wider than the Avs.

Uhhhh.... Hintz might be the best of them all.


It isn't even worth debating. You are clearly massively underselling the Stars core yo fit your narrative. I'm not even a huge fan of the Stars team but they're clearly significantly better and better set for the future then you're giving them credit for.

 

[henchman21]

Let me get this straight, you think the avs need tank AND kane to be on the stars level?

No, but we’d be in a situation with both where there would be little to no debate the Avs are ahead. With one, you’re still in a debate (FTR I think both are overrated for their actual impacts)

Uhhhh.... Hintz might be the best of them all.


It isn't even worth debating. You are clearly massively underselling the Stars core yo fit your narrative. I'm not even a huge fan of the Stars team but they're clearly significantly better and better set for the future then you're giving them credit for.

The underrating of Hintz is kinda surprising to me here. People must not have watched his playoffs.

 

[ANewHope]

Hintz is the same age as Mikko. Makar is the same age as Robertson. Byram is younger than Heiskanen.

This is what gets me. Byram being less proven than the rest certainly gives them the advantage no doubt. We don't have a Johnston either. Some people act like there the Devils. They are relying on Benn/Duchene/Pavelski/Seguin to not fall off a cliff and they all significantly older than Colorado.

I get thinking Dallas could be better. I get thinking RyJo/Drouin won't pop and the pro scouts might not be able to re-create similar magic of the past. I don't get before the season starts being worried about age and thinking Dallas is fine. Dallas has more risk with age regression in terms of depth and pretty similar in terms of the core. It's Robertson/Hintz/Otto's team .. but some really downplay how big Pavelski/Benn and even Seguin being passable were last season.

Obviously they have a better prospect pool but for the most part it's a crapshoot.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

No, but we’d be in a situation with both where there would be little to no debate the Avs are ahead. With one, you’re still in a debate (FTR I think both are overrated for their actual impacts)


The underrating of Hintz is kinda surprising to me here. People must not have watched his playoffs.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

Dude is an absolute stud.

This is what gets me. Byram being less proven than the rest certainly gives them the advantage no doubt. Some people act like there the Devils. They are relying on Benn/Duchene/Pavelski/Seguin to not fall off a cliff and they all significantly older than Colorado.

They literally aren't relying on one single guy in that group. Not one of them are part of the core in Dallas anymore.

That's the point