Speculation: 2022 Summer/off season Sharks Roster Discussion

[OrrNumber4]

It's tempting as a fan to think things like "hey, let's get Scheifele! Let's go out and get Dubois! Maybe Bobrovsky is the answer!"

It would be a longshot plan that provides only short-term satisfaction. Honestly, that's what the Karlsson trade was; even arguably the Burns and Heatley trades. The actual bitter work of selling off assets, rebuilding, and losing for a few years is actually the wise thing to do...

 

[TheBeard]

Yeah that's what we should be doing. We've missed the playoffs 3 years in a row, and haven't sold/added any key core players. We're closer to drafting 1st overall than winning the cup so it should be pretty simple which option we try and do.

Nothing more demoralizing than tanking for a can’t miss prospect and then losing the draft lottery.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Nothing more demoralizing than tanking for a can’t miss prospect and then losing the draft lottery.

Atleast we'd still get another swing at a different top5/10 pick. What's so good about playing .500 hockey, not making the playoffs, and still not drafting super high?

 

[Barrie22]

Nothing more demoralizing than tanking for a can’t miss prospect and then losing the draft lottery.

Worked for colorado in 2017. Bumped 3 spots and got the best player in the draft at number 4.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

It's tempting as a fan to think things like "hey, let's get Scheifele! Let's go out and get Dubois! Maybe Bobrovsky is the answer!"

It would be a longshot plan that provides only short-term satisfaction. Honestly, that's what the Karlsson trade was; even arguably the Burns and Heatley trades. The actual bitter work of selling off assets, rebuilding, and losing for a few years is actually the wise thing to do...

Well they’ve done that the last 3 years without trying. Maybe trying to win will actually continue to help the supposed non-existent rebuild?

 

[TheBeard]

Worked for colorado in 2017. Bumped 3 spots and got the best player in the draft at number 4.

What the hell. It’s worked for the Coyotes too, right?

Atleast we'd still get another swing at a different top5/10 pick. What's so good about playing .500 hockey, not making the playoffs, and still not drafting super high?

Because for every Colorado there’s a Philly and a Buffalo.

 

[stator]

Worked for colorado in 2017. Bumped 3 spots and got the best player in the draft at number 4.

Yeah, but they also must have been surprised that Sharks bypassed Rantanen, and counted their lucky stars.

Sharks have drafting problems. They gave up two 1st round picks in Norris and one future 1st for EK, but I don't think that trade worked out. It would have worked better if they were willing to use LTIR on EK, rather than lengthy IR, and gain a competitive edge from it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

What the hell. It’s worked for the Coyotes too, right?


Because for every Colorado there’s a Philly and a Buffalo.

To me, the alternatives for finding the sort of talent this team needs to compete are still worse if they exist at all.

 

[TheBeard]

To me, the alternatives for finding the sort of talent this team needs to compete are still worse if they exist at all.

It doesn’t matter where you draft if your scouting department is incompetent.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It doesn’t matter where you draft if your scouting department is incompetent.

Sure it does. Even incompetent scouting departments have difficulties screwing up higher in the draft.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

Sure it does. Even incompetent scouting departments have difficulties screwing up higher in the draft.

I don’t really see how we could screw up at 11 unless we went WAAAY off the board at 11. There should be at least 3 to 4 consensus guys in that 9-13 ranking available that would make sense for us. Unless they are incredibly incompetent it should be pretty cut and dry.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don’t really see how we could screw up at 11 unless we went WAAAY off the board at 11. There should be at least 3 to 4 consensus guys in that 9-13 ranking available that would make sense for us. Unless they are incredibly incompetent it should be pretty cut and dry.

Oh we can screw up at 11 but screwing up between 1 and 5 is harder to do than it is to screw up at 11.

 

[TheBeard]

Oh we can screw up at 11 but screwing up between 1 and 5 is harder to do than it is to screw up at 11.

It’s easy to screw it up everywhere. GMs can’t afford to make mistakes or wait for players to grow. It’s why goaltenders rarely go in the first.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It’s easy to screw it up everywhere. GMs can’t afford to make mistakes or wait for players to grow. It’s why goaltenders rarely go in the first.

Of course but it's harder to do so the higher up in the draft that you are. GM's in situations where they have certain expectations can't afford mistakes. Rebuilding franchises tend to have a little more leeway on it. I just don't see a better way to get the type of players this franchise needs to contend again. I don't view any non-rebuild strategy as having a coherent plan for it. They just want to luck into it. Well, we didn't luck into it during our entire time of contending. The only options will be trading, free agency, or improving your draft odds. The Sharks don't have the assets or resources for trades or free agency.

 

[TheBeard]

Of course but it's harder to do so the higher up in the draft that you are. GM's in situations where they have certain expectations can't afford mistakes. Rebuilding franchises tend to have a little more leeway on it. I just don't see a better way to get the type of players this franchise needs to contend again. I don't view any non-rebuild strategy as having a coherent plan for it. They just want to luck into it. Well, we didn't luck into it during our entire time of contending. The only options will be trading, free agency, or improving your draft odds. The Sharks don't have the assets or resources for trades or free agency.

I get what you’re saying but there’s also a greater expectation to hit a home run in the top three. Look at Philly with Nolan Patrick or Phoenix and Strome. Purposely tanking means giving a middle finger to the ST holders expecting a competitive product so alienating them better be worth the production from what you get out of that pick.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I get what you’re saying but there’s also a greater expectation to hit a home run in the top three. Look at Philly with Nolan Patrick or Phoenix and Strome. Purposely tanking means giving a middle finger to the ST holders expecting a competitive product so alienating them better be worth the production from what you get out of that pick.

Being mediocre for a decade with no real plan is also a middle finger to the fans. Everyone knows that this team is bad and the front office treating us like idiots isn't any better.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I get what you’re saying but there’s also a greater expectation to hit a home run in the top three. Look at Philly with Nolan Patrick or Phoenix and Strome. Purposely tanking means giving a middle finger to the ST holders expecting a competitive product so alienating them better be worth the production from what you get out of that pick.

Sure there's a greater expectation on those picks but you have good odds of it panning out to varying degrees too. Purposely tanking does not automatically mean giving ST holders a middle finger. The Rangers did this sort of thing when they went through their rebuild. If you put out there that you want to do this and have a plan for building from within then plenty will give you the benefit of the doubt and those that just care about winning are those you're never going to reach regardless here because rebuilding will make them go away and just losing to the point of missing the playoffs will make them go away too. I'm sure there is a group of people who are only maintaining their ST holder status because they haven't said they're rebuilding but that can't be a terribly large number. They can eat those losses for the money they'd get sooner by building the team properly into a playoff team. What they have now and the direction they're going in by doing either very little as they've done the past two offseasons after missing the playoffs or taking the leap to add somehow when they have numerous bloated contracts is unlikely to yield increased ST holders or playoff revenue.

Losing alienates no matter how you do it. You're better off acknowledging the state of the team, publicly conveying that and bring forth a plan to fix that, and just doing it. This team will never be good enough to win a Cup if they're taking rebuilding off the table as a viable team-building option.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

Fantasy

My first thought when I saw this:

Now that SAP has perfected its time machine, the Sharks can build the 2023 Stanley Cup winner with a few simple moves. First, they put Burns, Karlsson, Couture and Vlasic into it to get back the players they were in 2012. Then they put Eklund and Bordeleau in it to get the players they will be in 2027. Finally, they sign Thornton and bring Marleau out of retirement, put them in the machine, and get back the players they were in 2007. The Cup is ours!​

 

[stator]

Losing alienates no matter how you do it. You're better off acknowledging the state of the team, publicly conveying that and bring forth a plan to fix that, and just doing it. This team will never be good enough to win a Cup if they're taking rebuilding off the table as a viable team-building option.

This. DW has mostly been about image above most others, including his hairstyle and tan. I use to walk out of the STH meetings with him wondering whether he believes in his shit.

 

[TheBeard]

Being mediocre for a decade with no real plan is also a middle finger to the fans. Everyone knows that this team is bad and the front office treating us like idiots isn't any better.

Well, that's completely different. There's other options besides Constantly going for it and completely tanking. You can have a direction without going to those extremes.

 

[TheBeard]

Sure there's a greater expectation on those picks but you have good odds of it panning out to varying degrees too. Purposely tanking does not automatically mean giving ST holders a middle finger. The Rangers did this sort of thing when they went through their rebuild. If you put out there that you want to do this and have a plan for building from within then plenty will give you the benefit of the doubt and those that just care about winning are those you're never going to reach regardless here because rebuilding will make them go away and just losing to the point of missing the playoffs will make them go away too. I'm sure there is a group of people who are only maintaining their ST holder status because they haven't said they're rebuilding but that can't be a terribly large number. They can eat those losses for the money they'd get sooner by building the team properly into a playoff team. What they have now and the direction they're going in by doing either very little as they've done the past two offseasons after missing the playoffs or taking the leap to add somehow when they have numerous bloated contracts is unlikely to yield increased ST holders or playoff revenue.

Losing alienates no matter how you do it. You're better off acknowledging the state of the team, publicly conveying that and bring forth a plan to fix that, and just doing it. This team will never be good enough to win a Cup if they're taking rebuilding off the table as a viable team-building option.

I think, for example, what they did going into the year, making small moves like Bonino, Cogs and Reimer is an example of a team not tanking but not going balls to wall in terms of competing. I thought it said we're still going to try and if it doesn't work then we have experience to teach the young kids and trade chips at the deadline. But then when they basically stood still and then signed Hertl, it basically announced that there was no direction. Would trading Hertl been a sign of tanking? No, merely an understanding of where the team was. My point being is they can have a long term plan, compete and not tank but they chose none of the above.

 

[hohosaregood]

I think, for example, what they did going into the year, making small moves like Bonino, Cogs and Reimer is an example of a team not tanking but not going balls to wall in terms of competing. I thought it said we're still going to try and if it doesn't work then we have experience to teach the young kids and trade chips at the deadline. But then when they basically stood still and then signed Hertl, it basically announced that there was no direction. Would trading Hertl been a sign of tanking? No, merely an understanding of where the team was. My point being is they can have a long term plan, compete and not tank but they chose none of the above.

There is value in keeping Hertl through a rebuild too though. They have talked about him being one of the culture setters and I get that. Having someone around who can be a positive professional role model for what is going to be a very very young team over the next 5 years will help the next group's development. Is that worth having over a late 1st, another prospect, and cap space? Hard to say.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I think, for example, what they did going into the year, making small moves like Bonino, Cogs and Reimer is an example of a team not tanking but not going balls to wall in terms of competing. I thought it said we're still going to try and if it doesn't work then we have experience to teach the young kids and trade chips at the deadline. But then when they basically stood still and then signed Hertl, it basically announced that there was no direction. Would trading Hertl been a sign of tanking? No, merely an understanding of where the team was. My point being is they can have a long term plan, compete and not tank but they chose none of the above.

I agree with this. I just don’t agree it was the way to go. This team would be a lot better off if they were honest with their fans instead of lying about their commitment to win.

 

[stator]

Full Rebuild, move contracts.

 

[TheBeard]

I agree with this. I just don’t agree it was the way to go. This team would be a lot better off if they were honest with their fans instead of lying about their commitment to win.

Because they don’t have much of a choice now with these contracts. You can’t tank with Karlsson and Burns and Couture and now Hertl all under contract for big money for several years. Best you can hope for is finding and developing young talent in the process.