2022-23 Tank Thread

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wouldn't consider Edmonton a trade partner. Having Jack Campbell as their goalie is good for us. That's the salary the would have to move in order to sign him.

Buffalo makes a lot of sense to me. That's a good team that isn't getting goaltending down the stretch. Comrie is signed there for next year, and we know those two have a good working relationship. UPL would be a goalie that I think Flats could work with, technically.

Jersey would be an interesting trade partner too if they don't get the goaltending in the playoffs.

In the East, Carolina, Pittsburgh, Ottawa are all without a starting goalie next year, so they could make moves to address that with the supply of quality goalies limited.

Whoever trades for Helly would want to sign him, and that's going to be the big thing, where does he want to play? Because we've seen that the uncertainty of re-signing a player with only one year of contract left generally limits their value.

Oilers are shedding almost 9.5 mil in dead cap after this year. Buyout Campbell and save another 3.5 the first year.

That would leave them needing to fill at least 6 roster spots with what's left. Pretty tight. They would probably not go for it unless they could send at least a little cap back or arrange another trade. OTOH, they would have to be crazy not to try to fit it in while they still have McD and Drai. They might have to lose some lesser player that they would prefer to keep.

 

[voyageur]

Oilers are shedding almost 9.5 mil in dead cap after this year. Buyout Campbell and save another 3.5 the first year.

That would leave them needing to fill at least 6 roster spots with what's left. Pretty tight. They would probably not go for it unless they could send at least a little cap back or arrange another trade. OTOH, they would have to be crazy not to try to fit it in while they still have McD and Drai. They might have to lose some lesser player that they would prefer to keep.

As a Jets fan, I would never endorse trading a star player to the Oilers. Willy Lindstrom for Laurie Boschman I was ok with that one.

 

[KingBogo]

24 season, 25, 26, 27, = 4, plus 2 more? 6 You specified that that would be with all of the best case scenarios working out. That would mean drafting a couple of franchise players, among other things.

I don't believe it is ever necessary to have high end FAs sign with you to supplement your picks. We do alright signing the low to mid level ones that may be needed.

The Jets have a choice between 2 quite different timelines. There is the one where they let everybody walk after trying to get another PO run out of them and there is the one where they jump start the process.

Trading all of Dubois, Scheifele and Hellebuyck should yield a very good start on a rebuild. Draft about 17-18 this year and bottom 5 for a couple after that. Add those assets to the prospects we have now, McGroarty, Lucius, Lambert, Heinola, Chisholm, Gawanke, Salomonsson, Zhilkin, Divincentiis, plus a few lesser ones who might yield 2-3 more NHL'ers. That is an already well started rebuild. We still have JMo, KFC and Ehlers plus a couple of middle 6'ers and a few bottom 6'ers.

We might be a little too young, lacking experience and leadership. That can be dealt with through FA and/or trade.

Goal will be the hardest spot to fill. We have a few prospects but no blue chippers. We might not even get a good backup out of the bunch.

A lot of teams have started their rebuilds with a lot less and it has taken them a very long time. A misstep or two can add years to the rebuild. There is no guarantee on the timeline. But with a good start it doesn't need to take a decade or more.

Says who to the bold? Ehlers is a UFA the year after next, and Connor the year after that. Are you really sure they want to spend the rest of their primes going on a deep rebuild dive? Or would they prefer to get a max UFA deal with a contender in a more desirable market? I'm guessing they will both be on the next bus out of town if we sell off PLD, Helly and Scheifele. At that point you're going to have a tough time with JoMo even willing to stick around. You need to think a full rebuild has Perfetti as the old man of the group, the rest will all be gone. A rebuild will be very long and very painful.

 

[tbcwpg]

Not to speak for all others but I don't think that is what anyone has been saying. Seeing players working every night (ok most nights) plus following exciting young players as they develop will somewhat mitigate the loss of ticket sales.

In non-traditional hockey markets losing teams draw flies. It would not be nearly as bad as that in Winnipeg. Though still bad.

Expectations play a big part. We made the PO for the first time in 15. Jets immediately announced a youth movement and finished in 6th draft spot the next year. Attendance didn't tank. Expectations had been managed. Fortunately it only took 2 years to rebound and in the 2nd of those years, we had the excitement of Laine arriving.

Different circumstances, but after the almost endless disappointments of these last several seasons, lowered expectations but with real hope for the not too distant future would be a welcome change - despite the frustration of losing a lot of games. As it is now, we get to watch our team losing to those rebuilding teams. What could be worse than that?

Losing keeps fans away, is my point. Whether it's losing right now with an underachieving team, or losing with a young "rebuilding" group, fans stay away. Will it be Buffalo or Chicago bad? No, but still bad. And I should say I don't think the team is at risk of moving even with some lean attendance years. Just how TNSE might see their bottom line.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

Main reason I cheer for the Jets is because of Helle’s play. Sure he had a rough week but he is very good season after season I rather extend Helle than trade him. I predict he will have a Henrik Lundquist type career and be HOF goalie when he career is over

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

As a Jets fan, I would never endorse trading a star player to the Oilers. Willy Lindstrom for Laurie Boschman I was ok with that one.

Get over it. The 1980's was like 2 generations ago, last century, a lifetime ago.

Or ....... don't get over it. Take them to the cleaners on the return and make a habit of beating them in the PO.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Says who to the bold? Ehlers is a UFA the year after next, and Connor the year after that. Are you really sure they want to spend the rest of their primes going on a deep rebuild dive? Or would they prefer to get a max UFA deal with a contender in a more desirable market? I'm guessing they will both be on the next bus out of town if we sell off PLD, Helly and Scheifele. At that point you're going to have a tough time with JoMo even willing to stick around. You need to think a full rebuild has Perfetti as the old man of the group, the rest will all be gone. A rebuild will be very long and very painful.

We still have them for the time being. If it comes to that, trade them too.

It can't be any more painful than what we have been getting these last 5 years. 5 years since the 2018 PO run. The first 5 years were a lot more fun, despite the losing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Losing keeps fans away, is my point. Whether it's losing right now with an underachieving team, or losing with a young "rebuilding" group, fans stay away. Will it be Buffalo or Chicago bad? No, but still bad. And I should say I don't think the team is at risk of moving even with some lean attendance years. Just how TNSE might see their bottom line.

No doubt. But I don't really believe there is a viable alternative.

Consider the effect on the bottom line of 15 mil less payroll for a few years. As that diminishes the team starts its climb and so do ticket sales. The ticket sales will lag behind improved play by a bit, but they will come.

 

[KingBogo]

We still have them for the time being. If it comes to that, trade them too.

It can't be any more painful than what we have been getting these last 5 years. 5 years since the 2018 PO run. The first 5 years were a lot more fun, despite the losing.

The 1st 5 years were more fun, because we were in a honeymoon period and didn't really care if all we were fed was shitty hockey. We are in a rough patch now but still holding onto a playoff position playing meaningful games. He can say that isn't fun, but somehow being out of playoff contention by Christmas is? Why because we get to talk about which 18 y/o kid we get to draft in 6 months?

 

[DRW204]

Main reason I cheer for the Jets is because of Helle’s play. Sure he had a rough week but he is very good season after season I rather extend Helle than trade him. I predict he will have a Henrik Lundquist type career and be HOF goalie when he career is over

I hope Helle stays here. there's definitely risks to consider of a 31 year FA goalie. However, I don't know what they'd have tending the net if he's gone. Also, he's the closest thing to a Pro hockey hall of famer we've iced so would be nice to see him as a life long Jet.

I have no doubt that the Jets org will want to keep him, probably at whatever costs.
But ultimately does he want to be here long term (again)? Team hasn't accomplished much, now fans are Bronx cheering him. it's not guaranteed he'll sign I think.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The 1st 5 years were more fun, because we were in a honeymoon period and didn't really care if all we were fed was shitty hockey. We are in a rough patch now but still holding onto a playoff position playing meaningful games. He can say that isn't fun, but somehow being out of playoff contention by Christmas is? Why because we get to talk about which 18 y/o kid we get to draft in 6 months?

The honeymoon wasn't nearly that long for me. But my expectations were lower and my hopes were higher. The team worked hard and were entertaining to watch, most of the time.

If they make the POs this year (which we still should because Flames don't seem to want it much more than we do) I don't expect to even take 7 games to be eliminated. This is not just a little losing streak. It is 24 games of consistently bad play. You can argue about just how bad, but it is bad. Since it more closely resembles the previous 3 1/2 seasons than the first half of this one, I am assuming that this is the real Winnipeg Jets.

No, being out of PO contention was never the fun part. Being outplayed by teams that are deliberately tanking is no fun either, even if we are clinging to a PO spot.

Being on the upswing was fun, even if I was impatient with the pace. We are now on a downswing and even if we finish a little higher than some of those early years it is still a downward spiral. It is not fun.

If you enjoy being irrelevantly on the bubble you're welcome to it. I don't begrudge you the fun of your fandom. But I am not enjoying this.

 

[KingBogo]

The honeymoon wasn't nearly that long for me. But my expectations were lower and my hopes were higher. The team worked hard and were entertaining to watch, most of the time.

If they make the POs this year (which we still should because Flames don't seem to want it much more than we do) I don't expect to even take 7 games to be eliminated. This is not just a little losing streak. It is 24 games of consistently bad play. You can argue about just how bad, but it is bad. Since it more closely resembles the previous 3 1/2 seasons than the first half of this one, I am assuming that this is the real Winnipeg Jets.

No, being out of PO contention was never the fun part. Being outplayed by teams that are deliberately tanking is no fun either, even if we are clinging to a PO spot.

Being on the upswing was fun, even if I was impatient with the pace. We are now on a downswing and even if we finish a little higher than some of those early years it is still a downward spiral. It is not fun.

If you enjoy being irrelevantly on the bubble you're welcome to it. I don't begrudge you the fun of your fandom. But I am not enjoying this.

The downward spiral is approximately 2 months long, why don't we wait and see how the season ends before we decide the body is dead?

 

[BoneDocUK]

I hope Helle stays here. there's definitely risks to consider of a 31 year FA goalie. However, I don't know what they'd have tending the net if he's gone. Also, he's the closest thing to a Pro hockey hall of famer we've iced so would be nice to see him as a life long Jet.

I have no doubt that the Jets org will want to keep him, probably at whatever costs.
But ultimately does he want to be here long term (again)? Team hasn't accomplished much, now fans are Bronx cheering him. it's not guaranteed he'll sign I think.

Not sure what Helle does, but he’s a different kinda cat, so he may well surprise us in a good way.

The whole booing Helle thing is ridiculous and should stop. He’s a great, great goalie, perhaps one of the top 2 or 3 of his generation, and gives back plenty to the city. He does not deserve this.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The downward spiral is approximately 2 months long, why don't we wait and see how the season ends before we decide the body is dead?

The downward spiral is now in its 5th year.

 

[KingBogo]

The downward spiral is now in its 5th year.

So you expect to be a champion quality team each season? We had made the playoffs 4 years in a row, before last season.

 

[tbcwpg]

The honeymoon wasn't nearly that long for me. But my expectations were lower and my hopes were higher. The team worked hard and were entertaining to watch, most of the time.

If they make the POs this year (which we still should because Flames don't seem to want it much more than we do) I don't expect to even take 7 games to be eliminated. This is not just a little losing streak. It is 24 games of consistently bad play. You can argue about just how bad, but it is bad. Since it more closely resembles the previous 3 1/2 seasons than the first half of this one, I am assuming that this is the real Winnipeg Jets.

No, being out of PO contention was never the fun part. Being outplayed by teams that are deliberately tanking is no fun either, even if we are clinging to a PO spot.

Being on the upswing was fun, even if I was impatient with the pace. We are now on a downswing and even if we finish a little higher than some of those early years it is still a downward spiral. It is not fun.

If you enjoy being irrelevantly on the bubble you're welcome to it. I don't begrudge you the fun of your fandom. But I am not enjoying this.

If you were impatient with the pace before, you'll be impatient with the pace of the next one.

The Jets have been quite bad in calendar 2023 but they haven't been outplayed in every game. There are sparks there. We might as well have fun with a playoff race this year while we're in it because I suspect we won't see another one until the 2030s.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So you expect to be a champion quality team each season? We had made the playoffs 4 years in a row, before last season.

No, I don't. How can you conclude that when I am specifically saying we should drop right down to the bottom? I expect to be a contender each year in our window of contention though. In 12 seasons, we have contended once.

You count simply making the PO as a major victory. It can be if you can be competitive in the top 16. But it is not if that is the limit of your ability, if you go quietly in the 1st rd.

Counting making it in to that play-in rd is simply ridiculous. Sorry. An unfunny joke. They missed the PO twice that year rather than making it once. They were not in a PO spot when play was suspended and they lost in the play-in rd.

Each season has been a little further down than the one before until the first half this year. That's a downward spiral. Not a crash, just a slow descent. Now, that first half season is looking like a mirage, though they were a little better last night. We'll see if that can be the beginning of getting back to playing like a contender.

If they have a strong PO this year the question will still be, what should they do this off-season? Will Scheif and Helle extend here? Should they? A good PO might affect the answers but it won't remove the questions.

 

[tbcwpg]

No, I don't. How can you conclude that when I am specifically saying we should drop right down to the bottom? I expect to be a contender each year in our window of contention though. In 12 seasons, we have contended once.

You count simply making the PO as a major victory. It can be if you can be competitive in the top 16. But it is not if that is the limit of your ability, if you go quietly in the 1st rd.

Counting making it in to that play-in rd is simply ridiculous. Sorry. An unfunny joke. They missed the PO twice that year rather than making it once. They were not in a PO spot when play was suspended and they lost in the play-in rd.

Each season has been a little further down than the one before until the first half this year. That's a downward spiral. Not a crash, just a slow descent. Now, that first half season is looking like a mirage, though they were a little better last night. We'll see if that can be the beginning of getting back to playing like a contender.

If they have a strong PO this year the question will still be, what should they do this off-season? Will Scheif and Helle extend here? Should they? A good PO might affect the answers but it won't remove the questions.

In response to the bolded - they have been far better lately in games in which they lost than they were last night. That was the worst played game of the week for them.

 

[KingBogo]

No, I don't. How can you conclude that when I am specifically saying we should drop right down to the bottom? I expect to be a contender each year in our window of contention though. In 12 seasons, we have contended once.

You count simply making the PO as a major victory. It can be if you can be competitive in the top 16. But it is not if that is the limit of your ability, if you go quietly in the 1st rd.

Counting making it in to that play-in rd is simply ridiculous. Sorry. An unfunny joke. They missed the PO twice that year rather than making it once. They were not in a PO spot when play was suspended and they lost in the play-in rd.

Each season has been a little further down than the one before until the first half this year. That's a downward spiral. Not a crash, just a slow descent. Now, that first half season is looking like a mirage, though they were a little better last night. We'll see if that can be the beginning of getting back to playing like a contender.

If they have a strong PO this year the question will still be, what should they do this off-season? Will Scheif and Helle extend here? Should they? A good PO might affect the answers but it won't remove the questions.

We play in a 32 team league. On average you should make the playoffs every 2nd year. If we make the playoffs this season, we will have made the playoffs 6 times in 12 years, which is exactly average. And yes the play ins count as playoffs. All official NHL playoff stats include those games as playoff games. So your beef would be with the NHL and not me, as I'm just going by official NHL records. Carrying on, on average a team should get past the 1st round once every 4 years, we have done it twice in 11 years, but with some luck maybe this year we do it again putting us right on average. On average a team should make it to the conference finals every 8 years, and we have done it once, so a little behind there. On average a team should make the Stanley cup finals once every 16 years and win the cup once in 32 years. Lots of time still.

So statistically we are a very average team. This year we are proving it by currently sitting 14th out of 32 teams. I just don't carry around unrealistic expectations, that we are somehow magically become exceptional. I'm enjoying being in a playoff race, and once you get there, there is always hope.

 

[kanadalainen]

The 1st 5 years were more fun, because we were in a honeymoon period and didn't really care if all we were fed was shitty hockey. We are in a rough patch now but still holding onto a playoff position playing meaningful games. He can say that isn't fun, but somehow being out of playoff contention by Christmas is? Why because we get to talk about which 18 y/o kid we get to draft in 6 months?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In response to the bolded - they have been far better lately in games in which they lost than they were last night. That was the worst played game of the week for them.

That's one opinion.

I wasn't too bothered by the shot count early. Only 1 of the first 12 was a dangerous scoring chance. Wasn't good for Jets time of possession or zone time but I thought they were fairly even in that from there on. I wasn't impressed with Jets in OT. Shifts were way too long. But they scored the winner so it is forgiven.

Like their last win, it wasn't a work of art by any means.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We play in a 32 team league. On average you should make the playoffs every 2nd year. If we make the playoffs this season, we will have made the playoffs 6 times in 12 years, which is exactly average. And yes the play ins count as playoffs. All official NHL playoff stats include those games as playoff games. So your beef would be with the NHL and not me, as I'm just going by official NHL records. Carrying on, on average a team should get past the 1st round once every 4 years, we have done it twice in 11 years, but with some luck maybe this year we do it again putting us right on average. On average a team should make it to the conference finals every 8 years, and we have done it once, so a little behind there. On average a team should make the Stanley cup finals once every 16 years and win the cup once in 32 years. Lots of time still.

So statistically we are a very average team. This year we are proving it by currently sitting 14th out of 32 teams. I just don't carry around unrealistic expectations, that we are somehow magically become exceptional. I'm enjoying being in a playoff race, and once you get there, there is always hope.

Officially the play-in counts but you are kidding yourself if you think it is = to making the PO in any other year.

Some consider the Canadian Div year tainted too but I won't go there.

You are stretching things a bit just to claim average performance during what was supposed to be our window. This window of competition is going to close very soon and then we will be well below average for quite a while. The up part of the cycle needs to exceed average if we are to achieve average over a longer period.

IF Jets can turn it around this year they might achieve those goals that would get them closer to average. But the way they have played in the 2nd half so far, they are going nowhere in the PO when they get there. Not only not winning a round, they will be lucky to extend the series to 6 games.

You go ahead and enjoy this. But look at the thread you are in. This is not the positivity thread.

 

[KingBogo]

Officially the play-in counts but you are kidding yourself if you think it is = to making the PO in any other year.

Some consider the Canadian Div year tainted too but I won't go there.

You are stretching things a bit just to claim average performance during what was supposed to be our window. This window of competition is going to close very soon and then we will be well below average for quite a while. The up part of the cycle needs to exceed average if we are to achieve average over a longer period.

IF Jets can turn it around this year they might achieve those goals that would get them closer to average. But the way they have played in the 2nd half so far, they are going nowhere in the PO when they get there. Not only not winning a round, they will be lucky to extend the series to 6 games.

You go ahead and enjoy this. But look at the thread you are in. This is not the positivity thread.

Doesn't discussing the pros and cons of tanking belong in the tanking thread? Besides there is no chance to tank at this point. We either make the playoffs or miss they playoffs. We will be picking in the 13-18 range either way.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Doesn't discussing the pros and cons of tanking belong in the tanking thread? Besides there is no chance to tank at this point. We either make the playoffs or miss they playoffs. We will be picking in the 13-18 range either way.

OK, fair enough. But I come here to cry in my soup, not to be encouraged. I can get that in other threads.

That said, I find your take on tanking the most depressing one. 'It will take decades and may never work'. It is both inevitable and mandatory. I hope it can be done better and faster than Edmonton and Buffalo have done it so far.

 

[kanadalainen]

The downward spiral is now in its 5th year.

Spiral, is it?

Geez

Oh my bad, this is the tank thread.

Carry on!!