2022-23 Tank Thread

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not that I take solace in the team underperforming, but with the Trade Thread dormant post-TDL I figured this would be the next best thread.

If this is truly the beginning of the end for the core, where do the big dogs fit in best and what kind of return could we realistically expect to see? Won’t bother listing picks, instead will focus on young players and prospects. Will include (-) for players that I wouldn’t personally want, and (+) for those I’d specifically target.

Hellebuyck: top-5 goalie, year-in-year-out

EDM - finally gives 97 and 29 a goalie on the same plane of existence.

Ammo:
Stuart Skinner
Evan Bouchard
Dylan Holloway (+)
Xavier Bourgault
Philip Broberg (-)

NJD - poised for next decade with young forwards and defensemen

Ammo:
Dawson Mercer (+)
Simon Nemec
Alexander Holtz (-)
Seamus Casey

LAK - a retool-in-progress team that is used to elite goaltending

Ammo:
Brandt Clarke
Quinton Byfield
Alex Turcotte
Helge Grans
Jordan Spence

Scheifele: 1B right-shot centre/shooting winger

CAR - in need of support behind S. Aho, looking to make next step

Ammo:
Seth Jarvis
Scott Morrow (+)
Alex Nikishin
Pyotr Kochetkov
Jack Drury

COL - support behind MacKinnon/Kadri replacement at 2C

Ammo:
Alex Newhook
Bowen Byram (+)
Samuel Girard (-)

Pierre-Luc Dubois: 1B workhorse power forward

MTL - the obvious choice. Enough said.

Ammo:
Kirby Dach
Lane Hutson
Sean Farrell (-)
Owen Beck
Filip Mesar

SEA - shiny new big market, high-quality, young core

Ammo:

David Goyette
Jagger Firkus
Ty Nelson
Jani Nyman

BOS - big market, changing of guard at C, known for gritty play

Ammo:
Brandon Carlo
Fabian Lysell
Mason Lohrei
Matthew Poitras


Thoughts?

The values of our trade pieces are dropping with each futile game.

They aren't bad enough to get a top 3 pick

They are now. They weren't for the first 39 games of the season.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

The values of our trade pieces are dropping with each futile game.



They are now. They weren't for the first 39 games of the season.

They aren't. Have you looked at the standings? Very very unlikely

 

[GeorgeJETson]

I think Florida 1st plus Dach or a player of that type for Dubois makes sense

As much as I would love that return, I think the actual return will be much less than that. Look at the return for Trouba, that's the kind of return we probably should expect.

At this point, we should be happy if we could get Florida's 1st for PLD straight up. Maybe also a B prospect added.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

As much as I would love that return, I think the actual return will be much less than that. Look at the return for Trouba, that's the kind of return we probably should expect.

At this point, we should be happy if we could get Florida's 1st for PLD straight up. Maybe also a B prospect added.

Trouba = 1st plus Pionk
Dubois = 1st plus Dach

Pretty much exactly the same.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think if we miss the playoffs its time to rebuild. It is also time for a new GM. Its going to hurt though.

I think Helly and Scheif will have a lot of value. Their performance and cap will make them sought after by teams that want to improve next year. I think you look at moving one of Demelo/Dillion at the draft to make room. Wheeler you move at the deadline for whatever you get.

Try to get some draft capital for this draft and couple of good prospects for Helly and Scheif. The biggest issue is getting a replacement for Helly.

You have decent pieces already to build around. Perfetti,Lucuis,McGroarty,Lambert,Heinola etc.. Add to them this draft and those prospects you have.

Figure out what you are going to do with Ehlers. Love the guy but you might look at moving him on at some point. Pionk and Schmidt are likely gone the following year.

Get into a position for the 2024 draft where you are drafting top 5 and possibly with an extra pick or two. While it isn't the 2023 draft it is going to be a D man Draft.

Hopefully you start to be competitive around 2025/26

 

[John Agar]

I agree with this .

I just don’t think chevy should get a pass for a decade of failure. He drafted and chose to keep everyone year after year

Another gm should be making the moves imo

I don’t disagree with you, but the length of the re-sign on a contract suggests your and my opinion isn’t going anywhere.

 

[Gm0ney]

I rarely comment in this thread...

But I can't help myself at the moment, but I have to say...

Chevy is vindicated for making the savvy the acquisitions he did... just the upper end middle players we needed with some term... players that know how to play their role and be effective...

Chevy didn't make the big kill acquisitions for big money layout because he had figured something out... would have been a waste...

I think Chevy had seen enough after inserting Bones and his ethic, then the collapse after the Jets little hiatus...

He has confirmed lack of character in some of the core...

I expect some serious moves coming up once this group is done this year...

It doesn't matter if this team squeaks into the play offs... the core of this team just doesn't have it and never will...

Time to move on from them...

Feel free to insert names into this conversation... draft picks, more Nino' and Name' type players, young existing talent with possible upside... etc....

Send the malcontents, can't get alongs, lack of focus players to our competition... it should make them weaker...

It shouldn't take 4.5 seasons to figure out though. This franchise will have great difficulty putting together a contender when it's so interminably slow to identify and fix problems. 5 years of Pavelec. 4 years to figure out "this group" doesn't have it. 3+ years of Maurice (did they EVER even figure that out?).

I've said it since probably 10 seasons ago: I don't mind a GM making a mistake, but I can't support a GM who doesn't even seem to be able to identify mistakes in a timely manner.

 

[tbcwpg]

I think if we miss the playoffs its time to rebuild. It is also time for a new GM. Its going to hurt though.

I think Helly and Scheif will have a lot of value. Their performance and cap will make them sought after by teams that want to improve next year. I think you look at moving one of Demelo/Dillion at the draft to make room. Wheeler you move at the deadline for whatever you get.

Try to get some draft capital for this draft and couple of good prospects for Helly and Scheif. The biggest issue is getting a replacement for Helly.

You have decent pieces already to build around. Perfetti,Lucuis,McGroarty,Lambert,Heinola etc.. Add to them this draft and those prospects you have.

Figure out what you are going to do with Ehlers. Love the guy but you might look at moving him on at some point. Pionk and Schmidt are likely gone the following year.

Get into a position for the 2024 draft where you are drafting top 5 and possibly with an extra pick or two. While it isn't the 2023 draft it is going to be a D man Draft.

Hopefully you start to be competitive around 2025/26

I think saying 2025/26 is optimistic to be competitive. It's very easy to lose in the NHL. Learning to win and stay competitive 82 games is very hard. I think we'd be lucky to start seeing results by 2028ish if the team moves everyone out- there isn't much in the way of goalie futures here as you said and the prospect group we have now, while decent, seems to me to be more complimentary than any game breakers.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think saying 2025/26 is optimistic to be competitive. It's very easy to lose in the NHL. Learning to win and stay competitive 82 games is very hard. I think we'd be lucky to start seeing results by 2028ish if the team moves everyone out- there isn't much in the way of goalie futures here as you said and the prospect group we have now, while decent, seems to me to be more complimentary than any game breakers.

Other then Helly, do we actually have a gamebreaker in the lineup? I guess Morrissey play this year puts him in that category but the forward group for me has been lacking "THAT" guy.

I think 2025/26 is Optimistic it really depends on the guys you have drafted already. 2026/27 is probably a real date

The question is can they afford to lose for that long

 

[Guffman]

It shouldn't take 4.5 seasons to figure out though. This franchise will have great difficulty putting together a contender when it's so interminably slow to identify and fix problems. 5 years of Pavelec. 4 years to figure out "this group" doesn't have it. 3+ years of Maurice (did they EVER even figure that out?).

I've said it since probably 10 seasons ago: I don't mind a GM making a mistake, but I can't support a GM who doesn't even seem to be able to identify mistakes in a timely manner.

For a few of our more recent seasons, our defencemen were very poor quality and I thought that was addressed last season. Of course, we flatlined last season and we’re fading fast this season.

It’s pretty sad to see this core fail this badly despite the exciting promise they had. Maybe they’re just mailing it in right now so that they get moved this offseason.

Too many players with no heart.

 

[tbcwpg]

Other then Helly, do we actually have a gamebreaker in the lineup? I guess Morrissey play this year puts him in that category but the forward group for me has been lacking "THAT" guy.

I think 2025/26 is Optimistic it really depends on the guys you have drafted already. 2026/27 is probably a real date

The question is can they afford to lose for that long

I'm not sure they'll have a choice to afford to lose that long. We talk about the Winnipeg factor when it comes to trades and UFAs - we've been fortunate enough to be able to sign a lot of these homegrown players long term but that was with a team on the upswing - does the market come into play when it comes to keeping players when the group is on the downswing? Yeah, maybe the business plan is to float in the middle for a bit and get some extra playoff money and try to attract more fans in the door, but the team right now isn't doing that and they might not have the opportunity to do it.

I think players like Scheifele and Dubois and Morrissey (as you noted) have the ability to be gamebreakers. Connor can win a game or two with his shooting ability. Apart from maybe McGroarty, I don't see that kind of player in the prospect pool, and I don't know if McGroarty is as talented as a Scheifele or Dubois is.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They aren't. Have you looked at the standings? Very very unlikely

Yeah, they are. The standings include THEN and NOW. I'm talking about NOW. The last 24 games.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I rarely comment in this thread...

But I can't help myself at the moment, but I have to say...

Chevy is vindicated for making the savvy the acquisitions he did... just the upper end middle players we needed with some term... players that know how to play their role and be effective...

Chevy didn't make the big kill acquisitions for big money layout because he had figured something out... would have been a waste...

I think Chevy had seen enough after inserting Bones and his ethic, then the collapse after the Jets little hiatus...

He has confirmed lack of character in some of the core...

I expect some serious moves coming up once this group is done this year...

It doesn't matter if this team squeaks into the play offs... the core of this team just doesn't have it and never will...

Time to move on from them...

Feel free to insert names into this conversation... draft picks, more Nino' and Name' type players, young existing talent with possible upside... etc....

Send the malcontents, can't get alongs, lack of focus players to our competition... it should make them weaker...

Some of that can just be forced on Chevy by part of the core itself not wanting to sign extensions here ie. Dubois and Scheifele

 

[SM]

I'm not sure they'll have a choice to afford to lose that long. We talk about the Winnipeg factor when it comes to trades and UFAs - we've been fortunate enough to be able to sign a lot of these homegrown players long term but that was with a team on the upswing - does the market come into play when it comes to keeping players when the group is on the downswing? Yeah, maybe the business plan is to float in the middle for a bit and get some extra playoff money and try to attract more fans in the door, but the team right now isn't doing that and they might not have the opportunity to do it.

I think players like Scheifele and Dubois and Morrissey (as you noted) have the ability to be gamebreakers. Connor can win a game or two with his shooting ability. Apart from maybe McGroarty, I don't see that kind of player in the prospect pool, and I don't know if McGroarty is as talented as a Scheifele or Dubois is.

Really hope TNSE don’t just ride it out and become that middling team year after year after year.

Have to imagine a new GM and a complete refresh with loads of young prospects in games would attract more fans than a middle of the puck team destined to perpetually fight for (and lose) 16th in the standings. I get COVID hurt bottom lines and they’re hoping for a round or two of playoff revenues this year, but beyond that seems like shortsighted business planning…

 

[snowkiddin]

I'm not sure they'll have a choice to afford to lose that long. We talk about the Winnipeg factor when it comes to trades and UFAs - we've been fortunate enough to be able to sign a lot of these homegrown players long term but that was with a team on the upswing - does the market come into play when it comes to keeping players when the group is on the downswing? Yeah, maybe the business plan is to float in the middle for a bit and get some extra playoff money and try to attract more fans in the door, but the team right now isn't doing that and they might not have the opportunity to do it.

I think players like Scheifele and Dubois and Morrissey (as you noted) have the ability to be gamebreakers. Connor can win a game or two with his shooting ability. Apart from maybe McGroarty, I don't see that kind of player in the prospect pool, and I don't know if McGroarty is as talented as a Scheifele or Dubois is.

Interesting to see you now consider Connor a game breaker.

I think it’s tough to determine who in our prospect pool might potentially be a game breaker one day. Did Scheif/Morrissey/Connor look like gamebreakers when they were still prospects?

 

[tbcwpg]

Yeah, they are. The standings include THEN and NOW. I'm talking about NOW. The last 24 games.

There's no real correlation between a team's performance and a player's trade value.

Really hope TNSE don’t just ride it out and become that middling team year after year after year.

Have to imagine a new GM and a complete refresh with loads of young prospects in games would attract more fans than a middle of the puck team destined to perpetually fight for (and lose) 16th in the standings. I get COVID hurt bottom lines and they’re hoping for a round or two of playoff revenues this year, but beyond that seems like shortsighted business planning…

You overestimate how much the average fan wants to watch players they don't know, lose a bunch of games. Attendance for rebuilding teams predictably suffers.

Interesting to see you now consider Connor a game breaker.

I think it’s tough to determine who in our prospect pool might potentially be a game breaker one day. Did Scheif/Morrissey/Connor look like gamebreakers when they were still prospects?

I think Connor can break a game here and there but I still wouldn't put him as a primary piece to build around. He's still a red headed Phil Kessel in my mind - wouldn't be surprised if Connor's favourite food is hot dogs.

 

[snowkiddin]

There's no real correlation between a team's performance and a player's trade value.



You overestimate how much the average fan wants to watch players they don't know, lose a bunch of games. Attendance for rebuilding teams predictably suffers.



I think Connor can break a game here and there but I still wouldn't put him as a primary piece to build around. He's still a red headed Phil Kessel in my mind - wouldn't be surprised if Connor's favourite food is hot dogs.

Can’t fault a guy for that, there’s some good wieners in Winnipeg.

 

[Channelcat]

Can’t fault a guy for that, there’s some good wieners in Winnipeg.

Fact. We are world leaders.

 

[Hobble]

If we’re rebuilding, I’m sure there are several teams who would pay a heavy ransom for Hellebuyck. Edmonton and Toronto come to mind.

 

[John Agar]

Some of that can just be forced on Chevy by part of the core itself not wanting to sign extensions here ie. Dubois and Scheifele

I wish we knew what goes on behind the scenes.

Chef has a serious relationship. We don't know what she wants; Chef has some history here, but recent history doesn't suggest he is happy here, his on ice play in the latter half of the last 2 seasons has been less than stellar...

As for Dubois... I wish I could even think he wants to stay... all signs point to The Trouba Choice...

With both I won't take it personally as a fan... as I for sure want guys whether new or veteran to truly want to be here and work for each other and us the fans...

Your not wrong... just the signs are there...

 

[voyageur]

Trouba = 1st plus Pionk
Dubois = 1st plus Dach

Pretty much exactly the same.

Pionk wasn't a 3rd OA pick, who got traded at the draft essentially for a former 2nd round pick, Romanov. And a mid round pick in each deal.
Dach's value would likely be higher than last year's 13 0A draft pick traded for him, after this season.
Pionk never carried that kind of value.
Not sure if you could hope for more than that Panthers 1st, which who knows if it's available, because Montreal could make other trades with it.

 

[KingBogo]

Other then Helly, do we actually have a gamebreaker in the lineup? I guess Morrissey play this year puts him in that category but the forward group for me has been lacking "THAT" guy.

I think 2025/26 is Optimistic it really depends on the guys you have drafted already. 2026/27 is probably a real date

The question is can they afford to lose for that long

Even 2026/27 would be extremely optimistic. Add a couple years to that if all the best case scenarios work out.

 

[jgimp]

If we’re rebuilding, I’m sure there are several teams who would pay a heavy ransom for Hellebuyck. Edmonton and Toronto come to mind.

Please god not Toronto

 

[Truenorthducky]

Why not trade helly to wings for Husso and a few firsts. I mean if we don’t make the playoffs this year that’s two years in a row. Obviously having the third best goalie in the world isn’t working so why not get something for him and start fresh. Because we all know if we keep Hellebuyck he’s going to get over paid and too much term. We can’t win with him even with this lineup. I don’t think our team is gonna be getting any better in the next 4 years with 0 center depth , so what’s the point of even keeping him. 55 and 80 prolly gone next year. lowry number 1 center , a guy that scores one goal every 35 games.

 

[Duke749]

I could see a scenario where we move Scheif next year for futures and he eventually re-signs here after the fact. Just can’t see him not being a Jet for life or for most of his career. And I’m all for doing what’s best for the team and organization.