Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

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weastern bias

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When do you foresee the Sharks rebuilding?

They're doing it right now by accident, they're trying to compete but finishing in the bottom of the West every year

They may never blatantly and openly tank as long as Plattner owns the team, it seems he's mandated the organization to try to compete every year (great job guys), but they're so bad so consistently that they keep drafting high so the rebuild is silently happening before our eyes
 

tahoesharksfan

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The big change to the culture will happen once the useless caotain is gone for good, sadly nobody will want to take couture off the sharks hands for what he brings.

At least when they take the C off his chest. No matter how he plays he shows no emotional commitment to the team or winning…
 

hohosaregood

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They're doing it right now by accident, they're trying to compete but finishing in the bottom of the West every year

They may never blatantly and openly tank as long as Plattner owns the team, it seems he's mandated the organization to try to compete every year (great job guys), but they're so bad so consistently that they keep drafting high so the rebuild is silently happening before our eyes
I really don't think Grier is doing it on accident. There isn't a universe out there where you choose to trade Brent Burns in an effort to be more competitive. There was an interview he had with Rusanowsky where his closing message was basically saying to the fans to I know it's been a rough couple of years, stick with us, we'll turn this around.

Realistically speaking, this team has had actual AHL caliber depth the last few years. We had no flexibility and no depth. I think his goal this off-season was to get the team to a respectable NHL caliber depth. So he just filled in the bottom end of the roster with actual NHLers instead of throwing in kids and watching them sink. He's not exactly throwing out big money for grit like Benning did in Vancouver when he came on. It's not a very ambitious set of moves that suggests the team is competing for the cup.

I think getting the team NHL depth, and rebuilding the FO were the primary goals this off-season. I think the FO restructure is looking pretty successful so far. The roster moves are whatever.
 
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WTFetus

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But Grier asked him if he wanted to stick around and be a part of process and Burns decided he didn't. It wasn't exactly Burns forcing his way out.
I know what you mean, and me just being a negative nancy but what if Grier’s process is trying to be competitive and make the playoffs as a late seed, but not being Cup favorites or true contenders. And for that, Burns was like nope.
 

Cas

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I know what you mean, and me just being a negative nancy but what if Grier’s process is trying to be competitive and make the playoffs as a late seed, but not being Cup favorites or true contenders. And for that, Burns was like nope.
I kind of think what management is thinking is "we've improved our goaltending and our top six is good enough to compete, we just need depth in the bottom six." I think they're thinking they're actually a playoff team or close to it.

In reality, we're going to suck. The defense corps is abominable.
 

tiburon12

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At least when they take the C off his chest. No matter how he plays he shows no emotional commitment to the team or winning…
Man, I think you guys are really shortselling Couture. He's the best example this team has had over the past 20 years of a guy who has raised his game and compete and everything when it matters, and now he's "useless" and "show no emotional commitment"?

Maybe you could levy those descriptors at Marleau's captaincy or maybe even Thrornton's, but not Couture. The dude hates losing and you can see it eat at his soul in interviews and with how candid he is. Do you want him smashing sticks and screaming at the players, because that's what Karlsson does and he gets panned for lacking effort too.

You can knock Couture for not being a good leader, sure, but not for not trying his hardest every night
 

WTFetus

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Man, I think you guys are really shortselling Couture. He's the best example this team has had over the past 20 years of a guy who has raised his game and compete and everything when it matters, and now he's "useless" and "show no emotional commitment"?

Maybe you could levy those descriptors at Marleau's captaincy or maybe even Thrornton's, but not Couture. The dude hates losing and you can see it eat at his soul in interviews and with how candid he is. Do you want him smashing sticks and screaming at the players, because that's what Karlsson does and he gets panned for lacking effort too.

You can knock Couture for not being a good leader, sure, but not for not trying his hardest every night
I don’t even know how we could knock him for not being a good leader. Leadership is such an overrated term here, and it’s the one thing us as fans know nothing about since we’re not in the locker room.
 
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tahoesharksfan

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Man, I think you guys are really shortselling Couture. He's the best example this team has had over the past 20 years of a guy who has raised his game and compete and everything when it matters, and now he's "useless" and "show no emotional commitment"?

Maybe you could levy those descriptors at Marleau's captaincy or maybe even Thrornton's, but not Couture. The dude hates losing and you can see it eat at his soul in interviews and with how candid he is. Do you want him smashing sticks and screaming at the players, because that's what Karlsson does and he gets panned for lacking effort too.

You can knock Couture for not being a good leader, sure, but not for not trying his hardest every night

I'll just agree to disagree....
 

Sharksrule04

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Couture probably not, considering giving him the captain actually made him think he can now be one of the worst forwards on the team with regards to effort night in and night out but thinks that because he is leading coworker he can tell the others all of there faults to the media every night.

The big change to the culture will happen once the useless caotain is gone for good, sadly nobody will want to take couture off the sharks hands for what he brings.

What are you even talking about? My god, get a grip. Good to know 20+ goals is the worst forward on the team. The guy was paired with bums most of the season and managed to help Bonino score a ton of goals at the end of the season.
 

Sharksrule04

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At least when they take the C off his chest. No matter how he plays he shows no emotional commitment to the team or winning…
What is this based on? It sounds like you have some vendetta against Couture? Not many players in Sharks history have shown more emotion than Couture has on the ice. Not many players have shown more love for the area or the franchise either. This is pure BS.
 

WTFetus

Marlov
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Dude, relax. My observation of the situation is different. I didn't point fingers, accuse or anything else, just disagreed. R-E-L-A-X....

Except you're disagreeing while providing 0 basis for your argument. You might as well just say you just don't like Couture as opposed to try to spin any false sense of objectivity in your "observations". Couture is arguably the best playoff performer the Sharks have had in franchise history. And I only say "arguably" because I can't think of any player who's been better right now, but may be missing one (maybe Dan Boyle?). But he easily surpasses what Marleau and Thornton showed in the post-seasons.
 

Juxtaposer

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Who fits that description better than Couture then? I really don't think I overlooked anyone
I can name one right off the top of my head, and he just scored a point a game in Dallas last season.

I will always come to Couture’s defense when it comes to his ability to raise his game in the playoffs; he’s genuinely one of the only guys who does that. But you can’t look at his body of work last year and tell me that Couture gave his all every game.

We obviously don’t know exactly what goes on in the locker room, so we can’t make any definitive statements on Couture’s leadership. But what I do know is that when you’re in a tough situation (for example, losing a lot of hockey games), good leaders know how to keep morale up, keep the team loose, and make the best of a bad situation. If Couture is doing those things, it is not at all reflected in his teammates demeanor on or off the ice.

We aren’t a playoff team. Almost all of Couture’s value is in the playoffs. The math is simple. I don’t see fire in Couture’s game these days and I’m not sure it will ever re-ignite. Not exactly a guy I want as the captain of my young team.
 

jarr92

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I kind of think what management is thinking is "we've improved our goaltending and our top six is good enough to compete, we just need depth in the bottom six." I think they're thinking they're actually a playoff team or close to it.

In reality, we're going to suck. The defense corps is abominable.
I honestly don’t know how you can still think that’s true after what Grier has said and done this entire offseason. Very few GMs will come out and say their team is flat-out tanking, especially when first coming to a team.

Grier has built a team for next year that is fast and hard-hitting, but also one that won’t score much at all and will lose a bunch of games while competing.
 

Pavelski2112

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I honestly don’t know how you can still think that’s true after what Grier has said and done this entire offseason. Very few GMs will come out and say their team is flat-out tanking, especially when first coming to a team.

Grier has built a team for next year that is fast and hard-hitting, but also one that won’t score much at all and will lose a bunch of games while competing.
If the front office doesn't realize how bad this defense is, then we have bigger problems than whether they're actually trying to tank or not
 
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Eggdoh

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Man, I think you guys are really shortselling Couture. He's the best example this team has had over the past 20 years of a guy who has raised his game and compete and everything when it matters, and now he's "useless" and "show no emotional commitment"?

Maybe you could levy those descriptors at Marleau's captaincy or maybe even Thrornton's, but not Couture. The dude hates losing and you can see it eat at his soul in interviews and with how candid he is. Do you want him smashing sticks and screaming at the players, because that's what Karlsson does and he gets panned for lacking effort too.

You can knock Couture for not being a good leader, sure, but not for not trying his hardest every night
I agree. I think Couture's talent is starting to wane, as it does with any player getting older, but I don't understand criticizing his effort. He's the type of competitor who tries hard even in games where they're down three with two minutes to go. I'd imagine he hates the way the last three years have gone. Hate the contract, sure, but don't impugn the man's honor by claiming he doesn't care.

Karlsson on the other hand... seems like a coaster to me.
 

tiburon12

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I can name one right off the top of my head, and he just scored a point a game in Dallas last season.

I will always come to Couture’s defense when it comes to his ability to raise his game in the playoffs; he’s genuinely one of the only guys who does that. But you can’t look at his body of work last year and tell me that Couture gave his all every game.

We obviously don’t know exactly what goes on in the locker room, so we can’t make any definitive statements on Couture’s leadership. But what I do know is that when you’re in a tough situation (for example, losing a lot of hockey games), good leaders know how to keep morale up, keep the team loose, and make the best of a bad situation. If Couture is doing those things, it is not at all reflected in his teammates demeanor on or off the ice.

We aren’t a playoff team. Almost all of Couture’s value is in the playoffs. The math is simple. I don’t see fire in Couture’s game these days and I’m not sure it will ever re-ignite. Not exactly a guy I want as the captain of my young team.
I'm being nitpicky, but Pavelski didn't need to raise his game when it mattered because it was always at a high level. In other words, Coutures playoff play is better than his regular season play, whereas Pavs is generally consistent between the two seasons (just always high). That's what I meant by that comment.

Definitely agree about that aspect of Couture's leadership though. It's not as infectious as we saw with Pav's leadership, that's for sure. We don't need to be behind closed doors to see that. I mean, we can compare/contrast with Hertl or Ferraro very clearly.

I still see the fire in his game though, I just think his talent has waned enough that he's not as impactful. But who knows, maybe if we get into a situation where, for lack of a better phrase, shit needs to get done and Couture will once again show us that he get's shit done.
 
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Gecklund

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I'm being nitpicky, but Pavelski didn't need to raise his game when it mattered because it was always at a high level. In other words, Coutures playoff play is better than his regular season play, whereas Pavs is generally consistent between the two seasons (just always high). That's what I meant by that comment.

Definitely agree about that aspect of Couture's leadership though. It's not as infectious as we saw with Pav's leadership, that's for sure. We don't need to be behind closed doors to see that. I mean, we can compare/contrast with Hertl or Ferraro very clearly.

I still see the fire in his game though, I just think his talent has waned enough that he's not as impactful. But who knows, maybe if we get into a situation where, for lack of a better phrase, shit needs to get done and Couture will once again show us that he get's shit done.
It’s not so much his talent. Couture has always had really good players on his line. Clowe, Marleau, Timo are the most obvious ones. A part of that was because he was playing against top comp and a bigger part of that was because he’s not as big of a play driver as some hype him up to be and he never has been. The issue this season was after about halfway through he was paired with guys like Dahlen and Gregor. There’s a reason he played well in the beginning of the season (and also that Timo played so well). This is my main argument with splitting up Hertl and Timo.
 

CupfortheSharks

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I’m in the camp that doesn’t question Couture’s effort. Last year, in an effort to increase scoring Bob put Meier- Hertl- Barabonov together for a majority of the season. That left Couture with bottom 6 wingers yet he was still matched up against the other teams best line just like he has been for most of his career. He was going to struggle and he did. He play did pick up near the end of the season and all it took was a little help from Bonino.

The guy I’m looking at after Karlsson is Labanc. With him it’s more that he loses focus and ends up out of position. He has to keep his head in the game.

I do question Couture as captain. In fact, I made a poll about it. I think he is one of those guys who is great at leading by example but doesn’t have the right personality to wear the C. Much like Marleau.
 

Herschel

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I honestly don’t know how you can still think that’s true after what Grier has said and done this entire offseason. Very few GMs will come out and say their team is flat-out tanking, especially when first coming to a team.

Grier has built a team for next year that is fast and hard-hitting, but also one that won’t score much at all and will lose a bunch of games while competing.

Interestingly, this was a pretty common description of the Golden Knights going into year one.
 
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