Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Hodge]

Dahlen officially back to Timra. It’s almost like he’s not a NHL player and Grier was right not to qualify him. I remember people trying to tell me Dahlen is a legit top six forward and better than Adrian Kempe last season…

Barabanov will have the same fate once his idiotic contract extension expires. The previous regime loved their sub replacement level players.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Dahlen officially back to Timra. It’s almost like he’s not a NHL player and Grier was right not to qualify him. I remember people trying to tell me Dahlen is a legit top six forward and better than Adrian Kempe last season…

Barabanov will have the same fate once his idiotic contract extension expires. The previous regime loved their sub replacement level players.

Citation needed.

 

[Hodge]

Citation needed.

Here you go:

You think this:
View attachment 489669

is better than this?

View attachment 489670

Reading through that thread now is hilarious. Not only do you have posters legitimately trying to argue Dahlen is better than Kempe but that the 2021-22 Sharks are a better team than the 2021-22 Kings and were being held back by Boughner's coaching.

 

[Groo]

Here you go:

Reading through that thread now is hilarious. Not only do you have posters legitimately trying to argue Dahlen is better than Kempe but that the 2021-22 Sharks are a better team than the 2021-22 Kings and were being held back by Boughner's coaching.

There's never been a whole lot of Kempe love to be found here

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Here you go:

Reading through that thread now is hilarious. Not only do you have posters legitimately trying to argue Dahlen is better than Kempe but that the 2021-22 Sharks are a better team than the 2021-22 Kings and were being held back by Boughner's coaching.

lol anyone that goes looking through that thread is going to realize very quickly that context is not your friend here. haha you are pretty blatantly misrepresenting what is going on there.

 

[Hodge]

lol anyone that goes looking through that thread is going to realize very quickly that context is not your friend here. haha you are pretty blatantly misrepresenting what is going on there.

Huh? The full context is me saying the Sharks have a garbage roster with AHL players like Dahlen and Barabanov in their top six, people getting mad that I called Dahlen and Barabanov AHLers and a subsequent argument over whether Dahlen and Barabanov are better than Kempe and Iafallo when comparing the Sharks roster to the Kings.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Huh? The full context is me saying the Sharks have a garbage roster with AHL players like Dahlen and Barabanov in their top six, people getting mad that I called Dahlen and Barabanov AHLers and a subsequent argument over whether Dahlen and Barabanov are better than Kempe and Iafallo when comparing the Sharks roster to the Kings.

Yeah except it isn't the full context. That's only the full context to someone who only wants to look at it in a single way to make themselves look as good as possible. Perfectly on brand for you but not legitimate in any way. lol

 

[Hodge]

Yeah except it isn't the full context. That's only the full context to someone who only wants to look at it in a single way to make themselves look as good as possible. Perfectly on brand for you but not legitimate in any way. lol

Sure thing bud. Anyway, everyone can go read the thread and make up their own mind.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Sure thing bud. Anyway, everyone can go read the thread and make up their own mind.

They can and should because your points in that thread don't exactly convey what you think they are. There's a lot of fallacious arguments you employ in that thread. You don't ever really directly respond to someone's points. You move the goal posts...constantly.

 

[hockeyCEO]

Interesting point by Hodge. If the metric for a "NHL player" is one who would not clear waivers or be claimed, how many teams have players who would clear waivers if they could be sent down?

 

[weastern bias]

Such a shame, Dahlen should be on the team this year

We're starved for goal scoring and he would have provided some secondary production for much cheaper than the replacement level fodder we spent all offseaon wasting picks and cap-space acquiring

 

[weastern bias]

Interesting point by Hodge. If the metric for a "NHL player" is one who would not clear waivers or be claimed, how many teams have players who would clear waivers if they could be sent down?

That's not a great metric in a vacuum because it divorces a player's production from their contract situation

Jamie Benn is still an NHL caliber talent, no team in the league would claim his $9.5M cap hit for the next 3 seasons off waivers

It's also not a 1-to-1 comparable on the Dahlen situation because he wasn't available on the waiver wire, he was an unqualified UFA available to anyone, which should be more damning of his value, but is likely more damning of the way NHL front offices evaluate cheap, young talent and their failure to capitalize on market inefficiencies

 

[one2gamble]

Interesting point by Hodge. If the metric for a "NHL player" is one who would not clear waivers or be claimed, how many teams have players who would clear waivers if they could be sent down?

all of them......

 

[Gecklund]

Interesting point by Hodge. If the metric for a "NHL player" is one who would not clear waivers or be claimed, how many teams have players who would clear waivers if they could be sent down?

Considering we could send Timo, Couture, and/or Hertl down on waivers and they wouldn’t get claimed it’s a dumb argument. Teams have to have the cap space available right at that moment or they can’t submit a claim.

Such a shame, Dahlen should be on the team this year

We're starved for goal scoring and he would have provided some secondary production for much cheaper than the replacement level fodder we spent all offseaon wasting picks and cap-space acquiring

Dahlen is worse than basically every player we brought in this season. Dude doesn’t have a single NHL quality.

 

[weastern bias]

Dahlen is worse than basically every player we brought in this season. Dude doesn’t have a single NHL quality.

He absolutely has an NHL quality shot, so this is hyperbole, but while he's a comparable talent to players like Kunin, Sturm and Lorentz he would have cost less than any of them in terms of salary AND we wouldn't have needed to trade any assets to aquire him

The biggest bungle of this offseason was the mismanagement of assets, we spent a lot of capital to be a team that may be a little bit better, but in my opinion will actually be worse than last year

 

[TheBeard]

He absolutely has an NHL quality shot,

So did Happy Gilmore

 

[Gecklund]

He absolutely has an NHL quality shot, so this is hyperbole, but while he's a comparable talent to players like Kunin, Sturm and Lorentz he would have cost less than any of them in terms of salary AND we wouldn't have needed to trade any assets to aquire him

The biggest bungle of this offseason was the mismanagement of assets, we spent a lot of capital to be a team that may be a little bit better, but in my opinion will actually be worse than last year

He’s not a comparable talent though. Kunin is more physical and better around the net by far. Sturm is better defensively and again more physical. Lorentz is WAY better defensively and physically. Even if Dahlen had a good shot, all 3 of these guys offer way more.

 

[Pavelski2112]

So did Happy Gilmore

Noah Gregor is more like Happy Gilmore, can't hit the net

 

[weastern bias]

So did Happy Gilmore

He’s not a comparable talent though. Kunin is more physical and better around the net by far. Sturm is better defensively and again more physical. Lorentz is WAY better defensively and physically. Even if Dahlen had a good shot, all 3 of these guys offer way more.

I mean comparable in terms of talent, not play style

Dahlen paced for 16 goals as a rookie, which would surpass any of those other players' career high in goals

He's not a complete player, but he certainly demonstrated comparable offensive talent, and our single biggest deficiency is goal scoring

 

[hohosaregood]

For a young player like Dahlen, not showing improvement anywhere over the course of the year is killer. If he started slow and finished strong then he might still be here.

 

[weastern bias]

For a young player like Dahlen, not showing improvement anywhere over the course of the year is killer. If he started slow and finished strong then he might still be here.

I think what really did him in was Bob banishing him to the shadow realm, it killed his confidence and he never had a real chance to regain momentum

Then a new GM comes in who has a vision of team building that's not compatible with Dahlen's playstyle but Jonathan never had the opportunity to force him to think twice because he was healthy scratched by end of the season

Another example of Boughner's sub-optimal personnel management

 

[TheBeard]

Noah Gregor is more like Happy Gilmore, can't hit the net

Noah Gregor is more like the Orlando Jones character from The Replacements.

I think what really did him in was Bob banishing him to the shadow realm, it killed his confidence and he never had a real chance to regain momentum

Then a new GM comes in who has a vision of team building that's not compatible with Dahlen's playstyle but Jonathan never had the opportunity to force him to think twice because he was healthy scratched by end of the season

Another example of Boughner's sub-optimal personnel management

My biggest issue with Bob, not to beat a dead horse, was that there was no vision. Was he trying to win? Develop young players? Evaluate vets and journeymen? From game to game I had no idea what his overall game plan was. Granted, much of that may have been the FO's unwillingness to give him any leeway. But if he's treated as a lame duck coach then there's certainly going to be little reason for the players to listen.

 

[Herschel]

The biggest bungle of this offseason was the mismanagement of assets, we spent a lot of capital to be a team that may be a little bit better, but in my opinion will actually be worse than last year

I think GMMG did a good job of selling a path to the playoffs without sacrificing prime draft capital.

The forward group needs at least two players to "break out" and outperform expectations, which is no different than what they needed last season, however, IMO this year's group (Lindblom, Kunin, Labacn, Gregor) is far more likely to do so while also already being proven NHLers, outside of the rookies (Eklund, Bordeleau).

 

[Gecklund]

I mean comparable in terms of talent, not play style

Dahlen paced for 16 goals as a rookie, which would surpass any of those other players' career high in goals

He's not a complete player, but he certainly demonstrated comparable offensive talent, and our single biggest deficiency is goal scoring

I think the VAST majority of those came off of riding Timo and Couture’s coattails to start the season though. Both were really good to start the season. I’m pretty sure it was like after December, Dahlen scored something like 3 goals. I don’t have the stats in front of me though.

My bigger issue is those players offer something when they aren’t scoring. Dahlen is a detriment when he isn’t scoring.

 

[sharski]

Interesting point by Hodge. If the metric for a "NHL player" is one who would not clear waivers or be claimed, how many teams have players who would clear waivers if they could be sent down?

On that note, how many here are HF Boards quality posters and if banned would/wouldn't get picked up by /r/SanJoseSharks/?

We all know who I'm talking about