Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Eye of Ra]

dont worry boys, dahlen is coming back one day

 

[tiburon12]

For a young player like Dahlen, not showing improvement anywhere over the course of the year is killer. If he started slow and finished strong then he might still be here.

I think injuries and fatigue played into that, with the latter being acceptable for a rookie at any age. His previous high was 51 games in a much less physically demanding Allsvenskan. In that sense, I would have liked to see what he brought to year 2 before giving up on him, but I also understand that age and not being GMMG's style play a factor.

I think GMMG did a good job of selling a path to the playoffs without sacrificing prime draft capital.

The forward group needs at least two players to "break out" and outperform expectations, which is no different than what they needed last season, however, IMO this year's group (Lindblom, Kunin, Labacn, Gregor) is far more likely to do so while also already being proven NHLers, outside of the rookies (Eklund, Bordeleau).

I'm all aboard the idea of building a winning and high-compete culture even if the team is losing. I was (and still am) very against tanking because of the negative impact it can have on a franchise, but GMMG seems to have added players that will compete through the losses and jettisoned some of those who would mope and flop during the the lows. That's an acceptable way to build

 

[Gecklund]

On that note, how many here are HF Boards quality posters and if banned would/wouldn't get picked up by /r/SanJoseSharks/?

We all know who I'm talking about

Wait is this about me? I try to keep my dark thoughts to myself! It works sometimes!

dont worry boys, dahlen is coming back one day

We don’t want him. He’s bad.

 

[TheBeard]

dont worry boys, dahlen is coming back one day

Radulov 2.0

 

[CupfortheSharks]

I'm all aboard the idea of building a winning and high-compete culture even if the team is losing. I was (and still am) very against tanking because of the negative impact it can have on a franchise, but GMMG seems to have added players that will compete through the losses and jettisoned some of those who would mope and flop during the the lows. That's an acceptable way to build

We still have the biggest floater on the team and that’s a big challenge in creating that culture. Can Quinn get Karlsson to work hard when he doesn’t have the puck? If he continues to float while waiting for his teammates to get him the puck, does Quinn reduce his ice time even though he is by far our biggest threat from the blue line? Mike and Quinn need to convince or force Karlsson and the other highly paid vets to become high compete, hard to play against players or there is no culture change.

 

[tiburon12]

We still have the biggest floater on the team and that’s a big challenge in creating that culture. Can Quinn get Karlsson to work hard when he doesn’t have the puck? If he continues to float while waiting for his teammates to get him the puck, does Quinn reduce his ice time even though he is by far our biggest threat from the blue line? Mike and Quinn need to convince or force Karlsson and the other highly paid vets to become high compete, hard to play against players or there is no culture change.

Well Couture and Hertl and Ferraro, the other letter'd players, are no-quit guys, so I don't think that much burden falls squarely on Karlsson. And I also think Karlsson is the most competitive guy on the team, he just needs the focus. To me, it's clear that the last few seasons hockey has been second to family for him, and while I get that as a human, as a fan I expect more consistency. Hopefully the new leadership can get him back to pre-children/covid levels

 

[Cianide]

What offseason additions/subtractions have the Sharks made so far? And where do you see the Sharks finishing up in the West? Just curious.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Well Couture and Hertl and Ferraro, the other letter'd players, are no-quit guys, so I don't think that much burden falls squarely on Karlsson. And I also think Karlsson is the most competitive guy on the team, he just needs the focus. To me, it's clear that the last few seasons hockey has been second to family for him, and while I get that as a human, as a fan I expect more consistency. Hopefully the new leadership can get him back to pre-children/covid levels

I think Karlsson now as the only #1 offensive defencemen will have a good effect on EK65 himself. He will be once again the only dude, like in Ottawa.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

What offseason additions/subtractions have the Sharks made so far? And where do you see the Sharks finishing up in the West? Just curious.

We've added mostly just depth players, none of which are offensively gifted. Sturm, Lindblom, Lorentz, Nutivaara, Kunin, Benning, and Dell.

Subtractions would include Burns, Dahlen, Hill, and Balcers. We've added more "NHL" players then we lost, but considering one of the players we lost was Burns, the team should be worse.

We are on paper either the worst or maybe 2nd worst in the Pacific. Arizona and Chicago are the only teams with worse on-paper rosters in the west.

 

[Gecklund]

We've added mostly just depth players, none of which are offensively gifted. Sturm, Lindblom, Lorentz, Nutivaara, Kunin, Benning, and Dell.

Subtractions would include Burns, Dahlen, Hill, and Balcers. We've added more "NHL" players then we lost, but considering one of the players we lost was Burns, the team should be worse.

We are on paper either the worst or maybe 2nd worst in the Pacific. Arizona and Chicago are the only teams with worse on-paper rosters in the west.

I agree with this except I do think Lindblom could flourish here.

 

[hohosaregood]

I'm just hoping it's less depressing to watch with the new guys. Last year, there was like a 2 month stretch of < 40 xGF% hockey and the eye test backed it up. Borderline traumatic hockey to watch.

 

[Shark Finn]

I'm just hoping it's less depressing to watch with the new guys. Last year, there was like a 2 month stretch of < 40 xGF% hockey and the eye test backed it up. Borderline traumatic hockey to watch.

This team just keeps on giving..

..trauma.

 

[weastern bias]

We still have the biggest floater on the team and that’s a big challenge in creating that culture. Can Quinn get Karlsson to work hard when he doesn’t have the puck? If he continues to float while waiting for his teammates to get him the puck, does Quinn reduce his ice time even though he is by far our biggest threat from the blue line? Mike and Quinn need to convince or force Karlsson and the other highly paid vets to become high compete, hard to play against players or there is no culture change.

This is why I don't buy the "culture change" argument

Culture is built by the leadership group and top players, not by depth pieces

Yes, you do want your depth players to be high character, high effort guys but watching Couture and Karlsson mope their way through the last 3 years makes me apprehensive to believe the culture will be fixed because we traded for a 10-15 goal guy who throws hits

The X factor here is Quinn, if he actually holds his top players to account in a way Boughner refused to it may have a real effect, Couture and Karlsson both deserved healthy scratches last year for their bullshit effort and if Quinn doesn't play favorites we might see things start to turn

 

[Pinkfloyd]

This is why I don't buy the "culture change" argument

Culture is built by the leadership group and top players, not by depth pieces

Yes, you do want your depth players to be high character, high effort guys but watching Couture and Karlsson mope their way through the last 3 years makes me apprehensive to believe the culture will be fixed because we traded for a 10-15 goal guy who throws hits

The X factor here is Quinn, if he actually holds his top players to account in a way Boughner refused to it may have a real effect, Couture and Karlsson both deserved healthy scratches last year for their bullshit effort and if Quinn doesn't play favorites we might see things start to turn

One shouldn't expect Quinn to actually do that. It's very rare that a coach actually does so to a player of the caliber of Couture and Karlsson. Karlsson's difficult to scratch at all given the depth on the blue line and severe lack of offensive capability from the blue line beyond him. It would be a little easier to scratch Couture based on ability to cover what you'd lose with him out of the lineup but Cooch just isn't a difference maker to where a motivated Couture is really that different than what you normally see. Cooch has always been pretty meh during the season and show up in the playoffs.

 

[weastern bias]

One shouldn't expect Quinn to actually do that. It's very rare that a coach actually does so to a player of the caliber of Couture and Karlsson. Karlsson's difficult to scratch at all given the depth on the blue line and severe lack of offensive capability from the blue line beyond him. It would be a little easier to scratch Couture based on ability to cover what you'd lose with him out of the lineup but Cooch just isn't a difference maker to where a motivated Couture is really that different than what you normally see. Cooch has always been pretty meh during the season and show up in the playoffs.

I don't expect him to actually do that, which is why I don't expect the culture to change in any meaningful way

All the noise about changing the culture has just been buzz to sell to the fans to get them excited for what is obviously another talent-deficient roster that won't be anywhere near a playoff spot by the trade deadline

 

[Groo]

I don't expect him to actually do that, which is why I don't expect the culture to change in any meaningful way

All the noise about changing the culture has just been buzz to sell to the fans to get them excited for what is obviously another talent-deficient roster that won't be anywhere near a playoff spot by the trade deadline

I disagree. Grier is limited for one thing and we are obviously going to go away from the soft, boring passive hockey that has been the Sharks hallmark. He's making the changes he can. As far as most of our top talent/ contracts... What can Grier do? Never a good idea when it comes to square pegs and round holes

 

[weastern bias]

I disagree. Grier is limited for one thing and we are obviously going to go away from the soft, boring passive hockey that has been the Sharks hallmark. He's making the changes he can. As far as most of our top talent/ contracts... What can Grier do? Never a good idea when it comes to square pegs and round holes

If Grier was REALLY committed to a culture change 1st and foremost, over any commitment to winning or icing talent, he could have hired Mike Babcock, that guy doesn't give a f*** and he'd duct tape Karlsson to a seat in the press box if he wasn't satisfied with his effort

I want to clear it up in case I'm being misunderstood, I'm not blaming Grier for trying to change the culture, that's actually a really good idea and we need it badly, I just don't think any moves we made this summer will result in any real change to the mentality in the locker room

Do you think Couture is gonna try harder because Luke Kunin is giving it his all every shift? I sure don't

 

[Herschel]

We've added mostly just depth players, none of which are offensively gifted. Sturm, Lindblom, Lorentz, Nutivaara, Kunin, Benning, and Dell.

Subtractions would include Burns, Dahlen, Hill, and Balcers. We've added more "NHL" players then we lost, but considering one of the players we lost was Burns, the team should be worse.

We are on paper either the worst or maybe 2nd worst in the Pacific. Arizona and Chicago are the only teams with worse on-paper rosters in the west.

At forward the Sharks lost nothing but depth players and replaced them with players that have a proven higher floor and at worst a similar offensive ceiling, although I’d argue Kunin and Lindblom bring more offensive upside than Dahlen or Balcers. It also gives Quinn a lot more options and flexibility when it comes to line combinations.

I am not sure how anyone can look at last season's forward group compared to this season and not realize that shift to shift the forward group is going to be better.

The wild cards and likely difference makers from being a bottom feeder or making a run at the playoffs is if any of Labanc, Eklund or Bordeleau can find their offensive games.

Now all of that aside it remains to be seen if the improvement with the forward group outweighs the loss of Burns.

Having a healthy and stable blueline would certainly help and I am not just talking about Karlsson. The Sharks had 9 D that played over 30 games last season. And only Burns and Vlasic dressed for >70 games.

 

[Groo]

If Grier was REALLY committed to a culture change 1st and foremost, over any commitment to winning or icing talent, he could have hired Mike Babcock, that guy doesn't give a f*** and he'd duct tape Karlsson to a seat in the press box if he wasn't satisfied with his effort

I want to clear it up in case I'm being misunderstood, I'm not blaming Grier for trying to change the culture, that's actually a really good idea and we need it badly, I just don't think any moves we made this summer will result in any real change to the mentality in the locker room

Do you think Couture is gonna try harder because Luke Kunin is giving it his all every shift? I sure don't

Geez...

It's not Couture I'm concerned about

It needs to start from somewhere and the more traditional gritter lines is a good place to start. More so with the top heavy contracts we have taking up room in the top 6 or on our D. What I can't see is any great improvement in the W/L columns. I also think that most of the signees will improve the overall play though.

 

[Barrie22]

If Grier was REALLY committed to a culture change 1st and foremost, over any commitment to winning or icing talent, he could have hired Mike Babcock, that guy doesn't give a f*** and he'd duct tape Karlsson to a seat in the press box if he wasn't satisfied with his effort

I want to clear it up in case I'm being misunderstood, I'm not blaming Grier for trying to change the culture, that's actually a really good idea and we need it badly, I just don't think any moves we made this summer will result in any real change to the mentality in the locker room

Do you think Couture is gonna try harder because Luke Kunin is giving it his all every shift? I sure don't

Couture probably not, considering giving him the captain actually made him think he can now be one of the worst forwards on the team with regards to effort night in and night out but thinks that because he is leading coworker he can tell the others all of there faults to the media every night.

The big change to the culture will happen once the useless caotain is gone for good, sadly nobody will want to take couture off the sharks hands for what he brings.

 

[Herschel]

If Grier was REALLY committed to a culture change 1st and foremost, over any commitment to winning or icing talent, he could have hired Mike Babcock, that guy doesn't give a f*** and he'd duct tape Karlsson to a seat in the press box if he wasn't satisfied with his effort

I want to clear it up in case I'm being misunderstood, I'm not blaming Grier for trying to change the culture, that's actually a really good idea and we need it badly, I just don't think any moves we made this summer will result in any real change to the mentality in the locker room

Do you think Couture is gonna try harder because Luke Kunin is giving it his all every shift? I sure don't

I think Couture and Karlsson will try harder if the games are close and the Sharks are in contention and having players like Kunin winning board battles will help with that.

Regarding holding star players accountable, yes it is hard, and often coaches shy away from it for many reasons but it is damn near impossible to hold star players accountable when your scrubs also aren't giving it 100%

 

[Hodge]

There's absolutely nothing to be gained by actively alienating Karlsson and Vlasic when we're stuck with their contracts. Grier should just act like they don't exist (i.e. don't factor them into any future team building plans beyond accounting for their cap hits) until enough years have passed that a buyout or LTIRetirement becomes an option.

 

[weastern bias]

There's absolutely nothing to be gained by actively alienating Karlsson and Vlasic when we're stuck with their contracts. Grier should just act like they don't exist (i.e. don't factor them into any future team building plans beyond accounting for their cap hits) until enough years have passed that a buyout or LTIRetirement becomes an option.

The bonus structures in the Vlasic and Karlsson deals almost entirely negate any benefits to buying them out

Vlasic could be bought out before the last year of his deal and have penalties of:

2025 - $4,666,667
2026 - $1,166,667

I think that's pretty likely to happen, but it depends on the salary situation the team is in at that moment, any earlier buyout just kicks the can down the road to a time the org hopes to be competing

Karlsson has signing bonuses in his last 2 years of $5M and $6M, his deal is entirely buyout proof

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The bonus structures in the Vlasic and Karlsson deals almost entirely negate any benefits to buying them out

Vlasic could be bought out before the last year of his deal and have penalties of:

2025 - $4,666,667
2026 - $1,166,667

I think that's pretty likely to happen, but it depends on the salary situation the team is in at that moment, any earlier buyout just kicks the can down the road to a time the org hopes to be competing

Karlsson has signing bonuses in his last 2 years of $5M and $6M, his deal is entirely buyout proof

I would only be for buying Vlasic out if the cap space is needed to keep Meier or would be used to increase their draft capital or prospect pool or to add a young player of worth. I wouldn't bother buying Vlasic out for the purpose of accountability or culture. If either of those are a legitimate concern, bury him until his contract expires.

 

[Cianide]

We've added mostly just depth players, none of which are offensively gifted. Sturm, Lindblom, Lorentz, Nutivaara, Kunin, Benning, and Dell.

Subtractions would include Burns, Dahlen, Hill, and Balcers. We've added more "NHL" players then we lost, but considering one of the players we lost was Burns, the team should be worse.

We are on paper either the worst or maybe 2nd worst in the Pacific. Arizona and Chicago are the only teams with worse on-paper rosters in the west.

When do you foresee the Sharks rebuilding?