Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[STL Shark]

Interestingly, this was a pretty common description of the Golden Knights going into year one.

And a Blues team that won a Stanley Cup. Difference of a Perron and Parayko on that team that we don't have. Otherwise, rosters are fairly comparable talent wise. Obviously a top 6 forward and 2nd pair D-Man are not small roster holes, but point remains.

 

[Herschel]

And a Blues team that won a Stanley Cup. Difference of a Perron and Parayko on that team that we don't have. Otherwise, rosters are fairly comparable talent wise. Obviously a top 6 forward and 2nd pair D-Man are not small roster holes, but point remains.

Very true

I am sure there is a reality where a complementary player like Kunin gels with Hertl and Barabanov and allows Meier to play with Couture and suddenly the top-6 looks good.

I have said it multiple times, the success of this season hinges on a couple of players stepping up and taking bigger roles than expected. Really this is no different than the last 3-seasons but IMO they have more and a better variety of candidates

Rookies: Eklund, Bourdeleau
Bouncebacks players: Labanc, Lindblom
Ready to take the Next Steps: Gregor, Kunin

 

[sharski]

Interestingly, this was a pretty common description of the Golden Knights going into year one.

And a Blues team that won a Stanley Cup. Difference of a Perron and Parayko on that team that we don't have. Otherwise, rosters are fairly comparable talent wise. Obviously a top 6 forward and 2nd pair D-Man are not small roster holes, but point remains.

Sharks odds to win the cup are @ +18000

Brb betting life savings

 

[Cas]

And a Blues team that won a Stanley Cup. Difference of a Perron and Parayko on that team that we don't have. Otherwise, rosters are fairly comparable talent wise. Obviously a top 6 forward and 2nd pair D-Man are not small roster holes, but point remains.

Are they, though? I tried to map the Blues to the Sharks as best I could, and the holes are glaring in comparison.

Just on the defense, I mapped the following pairs - Karlsson/Pietrangelo, Parayko/Ferraro, Bouwmeester/Vlasic, Edmondson/Simek, Dunn/Merkley, Bortuzzo/Benning, Gunnarsson/Nutivaara, Schmaltz/Megna. Looking at that (which I think is about as reasonable a mapping between two dissimilar groups of people as can be) and we're in a much worse hole - Karlsson might be able to match Pietrangelo in theory, but likely won't and will likely miss a third of the season; Ferraro is nowhere near as impactful as Parayko; Merkley is probably not going to be as useful offensively as Dunn that quickly (although I believe he can be a good offensive NHL player); the other guys are all likely a step or more below their counterparts. We're almost certainly in the hole at every single position on the blue line - sometimes by a lot.

When it comes to the forwards, same thing - maybe Hertl can be as impactful as O'Reilly (more offense, less defense), Meier can probably equal or best Tarasenko, Couture probably exceeds Schenn. Outside of them, it's question marks everywhere - will Eklund be as impactful as quickly as Thomas; can Lindblom/Kunin/Gregor provide as much offense as Perron/Maroon/Sundqvist while also equalling their other traits; can Bonino and Sturm prove to be as effective at 3/4C as Bozak and Barbashev (Bonino might no longer be a viable center, for example). I'm skeptical that we get as many goals from the depth options as the Blues did, with the dropoff on the lower lines being pretty big (I'd expect some 30-40 fewer goals).

The goaltending relies on one of our goalies getting really hot. They can do it, sure, but that's unreliable at best, and it's equally plausible that our goaltending takes a step back this year (Reimer should probably not be counted on to be as good).

I think we're a top six forward, a couple of good bottom six forwards, and about five defensemen short compared to the Blues. That's a lot. They were a contender, we're a bottom feeder that will struggle to exit the zone.

 

[Pavelski2112]

The Sharks as constructed and the Blues in 2019 are absolutely nothing alike. The Blues were an underwhelming winner that year but they still had plenty of depth, a Selke-level #1C, a very solid defense, and good goaltending.

 

[Herschel]

The Sharks as constructed and the Blues in 2019 are absolutely nothing alike. The Blues were an underwhelming winner that year but they still had plenty of depth, a Selke-level #1C, a very solid defense, and good goaltending.

The original point was that this Sharks team needs to be the first-year Vegas team and have several players surprise everyone.

 

[Pavelski2112]

The original point was that this Sharks team needs to be the first-year Vegas team and have several players surprise everyone.

I don't disagree but that's hoping for a hell of a lot

 

[Barrie22]

What are you even talking about? My god, get a grip. Good to know 20+ goals is the worst forward on the team. The guy was paired with bums most of the season and managed to help Bonino score a ton of goals at the end of the season.

Good thing you do not know how to read properly. I did not say he was the worst player on the team, his effort is though. Couture since he became captain has been one of the biggest floaters on the team, his defense is now non existent and his ability to control the shifts himself has completely dissapeared to where everyone of his goals is basically him just floating around the offensive zone waiting for a pass or a rebound. He no longer does any of the dirty work himself to create goals for himself or others.

 

[Herschel]

I don't disagree but that's hoping for a hell of a lot

Depends on your definition of a hell of a lot. There are several realistic combinations of players that turn this team into a playoff team... now if you are talking Cup Contender... well that's unlikely and the reality that first year Vegas team is the second worst Vegas team in their short 5-year history and none of the better teams have made it as far.

 

[landshark]

IF the Sharks current group get a full roster buy-in on the new system as a team, stay healthy, and play with pride (hustle/stick up for one another) they should at least be fun to watch. Maybe they will be a pleasant surprise and do a little overachieving for the new regime. If the vets (and the rest of the roster) don't buy in and play with pride, then hopefully GMMG has the stones to ask them to waive trade clauses or have them sat/sent down. Otherwise his attempt to change the culture will fail ultimately. Wonder how long that buy-in will take, if it happens at all.I hope that's the type of culture GMMG&CO are trying to instill. It's super fun to watch because good shit happens when there's hustle and solid team play.

Spoiler: Marc-Edouard Vlasic motivation ponderings

I'm excited that Vlasic has to submit a three team list this offseason if I read capfriendly correctly. That's a new motivator for the ol' Steady Eddy that may affect things this season. Do you bust ass to show you want to stay and are committed to the new system/regime? Do you dog it knowing none of the three teams on the list would want to trade for you even if it means testing the new staff to see if they'll actually healthy scratch you? I think next season they could bury him in the AHL? It goes to M-NTC which is Modified NoTradeClause. Which I'm guessing means he could go on waivers. (not that anyone would pick him up, but it's a sign of being washed up, perhaps that's motivation for M-EV?)

I was pro-tank for awhile, but I gave up on hoping for that after thinking about how I would like to set my expectations for the upcoming season for my own sanity and viewing pleasure.

If they win, I'm thrilled, they're gonna have to be playing as a team and hustling to win with the current roster makeup, that's fun to watch even if they don't win. To me, a win is making the playoffs. It's exciting to end another, better team's season. If they lose in the first round, at least the season was a fun ride. I used to relish the Shark's role as unlikely champ, but maybe-not-so-unlikely spoiler. After the last while it's kinda fun to think about that as a potential outcome in a best case scenario way.

Worst case scenario, the players don't embrace the team and play with pride. GMMG should take the opportunity to waive/AHL/trade the players that aren't holding up their end to pave the way for hockey that's more fun to watch even with less talent in the meantime, as long as they don't f*** up that high draft pick that's a direction I can back happily.

If GMMG doesn't sit/waive/actively trade folks that aren't playing with pride and hustling then I'm right where I was the last few years. But with the added bonus that I'll be anxious for the off season to see if GMMG can accomplish some house cleaning that he couldn't during the season. (He'll still be "new") Still hopefull and ultimately happy because there's another season a few months away.

tl;dr don't worry; be happy (for a few months and enjoy the start of the new era in Sharks hockey)

 

[Cas]

I think motivation is only part of the issue for Vlasic - more important is that he just doesn't have the physical capabilities to play defense in the NHL anymore. He doesn't skate well enough to keep up or get to where he needs to be to prevent chances before they develop, and offers nothing else to make up for his inability to stay ahead of the play (he's not a hitter, and contributes nothing offensively).

Vlasic has his smarts and his stick, but you can't use your stick unless you can get into position when you need to, and you can only outthink your inability to skate by such a degree.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Depends on your definition of a hell of a lot. There are several realistic combinations of players that turn this team into a playoff team... now if you are talking Cup Contender... well that's unlikely and the reality that first year Vegas team is the second worst Vegas team in their short 5-year history and none of the better teams have made it as far.

Is there though? I don't think there's any realistic combination that gets them good enough to make the playoffs.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Is there though? I don't think there's any realistic combination that gets them good enough to make the playoffs.

Playoffs maybe, but it would be a quick series loss against anyone except maybe LA. That's best case scenario.

 

[Bleedred]

Vlasic is 35 years old (turns 36 around the halfway point of this season) now. That's not young in the NHL. In fact, I don't think you're gonna find much more than 35 players older than him that will play in the league this year.

Point blank I just think he's shot. I think he has been shot since about 30 or so. Not completely shot, but probably middle to bottom pairing caliber starting then and now he's probably replacement level.

He got old kind of quick. You expect Justin Braun to get old quick, but not so much a guy like Vlasic.

But he's now at an age where no matter how long he hasn't been good for, you just don't expect him to be all that good anymore.

 

[Lebanezer]

Vlasic is 35 years old (turns 36 around the halfway point of this season) now. That's not young in the NHL. In fact, I don't think you're gonna find much more than 35 players older than him that will play in the league this year.

Point blank I just think he's shot. I think he has been shot since about 30 or so. Not completely shot, but probably middle to bottom pairing caliber starting then and now he's probably replacement level.

He got old kind of quick. You expect Justin Braun to get old quick, but not so much a guy like Vlasic.

But he's now at an age where no matter how long he hasn't been good for, you just don't expect him to be all that good anymore.

Hertl’s description of Vlasic’s eating habits says a fair bit.

 

[TheBeard]

Vlasic is 35 years old (turns 36 around the halfway point of this season) now. That's not young in the NHL. In fact, I don't think you're gonna find much more than 35 players older than him that will play in the league this year.

Point blank I just think he's shot. I think he has been shot since about 30 or so. Not completely shot, but probably middle to bottom pairing caliber starting then and now he's probably replacement level.

He got old kind of quick. You expect Justin Braun to get old quick, but not so much a guy like Vlasic.

But he's now at an age where no matter how long he hasn't been good for, you just don't expect him to be all that good anymore.

I never thought of it like this.

 

[Gecklund]

Vlasic is 35 years old (turns 36 around the halfway point of this season) now. That's not young in the NHL. In fact, I don't think you're gonna find much more than 35 players older than him that will play in the league this year.

Point blank I just think he's shot. I think he has been shot since about 30 or so. Not completely shot, but probably middle to bottom pairing caliber starting then and now he's probably replacement level.

He got old kind of quick. You expect Justin Braun to get old quick, but not so much a guy like Vlasic.

But he's now at an age where no matter how long he hasn't been good for, you just don't expect him to be all that good anymore.

He’s never going to be worth that contract again (if he ever was). I do think he can be a solid 3rd pairing D. He looked good with Merkley last year.

 

[gaucholoco3]

He’s never going to be worth that contract again (if he ever was). I do think he can be a solid 3rd pairing D. He looked good with Merkley last year.

I really am trying to be optimistic about the D pairings.

Megna/EK - EK restores his magic healthy in a new environment as the unquestioned top D. Megna had some good possession numbers last season, is a big body which is important in a partner for EK.

Ferraro/Benning - Both have played shutdown roles before. If they can tread water with heavy Dzone assignments and taking the hard minutes to let EK dominate.

Vlassic/Nutivara - Nutivara has experience on his off-side and has been more of a pick mover, which can allow Vlassic to be a steady presence and not need to move the puck.

Merkley hopefully can develop and force his way on the roster. If that happens I would run either:
Megna/EK
Ferraro/Merkley
Nutivara/Benning

Or depending on the play of Megna

Ferraro/EK
Vlassic/Merkley
Nutivara/Benning

I think with the improved forward depth this D could develop into a serviceable unit.

 

[Gecklund]

I really am trying to be optimistic about the D pairings.

Megna/EK - EK restores his magic healthy in a new environment as the unquestioned top D. Megna had some good possession numbers last season, is a big body which is important in a partner for EK.

Ferraro/Benning - Both have played shutdown roles before. If they can tread water with heavy Dzone assignments and taking the hard minutes to let EK dominate.

Vlassic/Nutivara - Nutivara has experience on his off-side and has been more of a pick mover, which can allow Vlassic to be a steady presence and not need to move the puck.

Merkley hopefully can develop and force his way on the roster. If that happens I would run either:
Megna/EK
Ferraro/Merkley
Nutivara/Benning

Or depending on the play of Megna

Ferraro/EK
Vlassic/Merkley
Nutivara/Benning

I think with the improved forward depth this D could develop into a serviceable unit.

I hate the idea of Megna with EK. He’s not very good at all. Honestly I’d give Simek a chance next to him. I think he could work. If he doesn’t try Nutivaara there but to start:

Ferraro-Benning
Simek-EK
Vlasic-Merkley
Nutivaara

I think they’ll try whatever pairing Ferraro is on against top comp that’s why I listed him first. Hopefully have Simek recoup some value so we can dump him. Have honestly everyone but Ferraro, EK, and Benning rotating places and find something that sticks.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

What offseason additions/subtractions have the Sharks made so far? And where do you see the Sharks finishing up in the West? Just curious.

Nothing of note. The Sharks will end up fighting with Arizona for the basement of the Pacific and the Western conference.

 

[TheBeard]

Nothing of note. The Sharks will end up fighting with Arizona for the basement of the Pacific and the Western conference.

My hot take. The team’s blue collar workman’s-like effort every night has this team competing for a playoff spot for most of the season and I think they finish ahead of the other California teams.

 

[Gecklund]

This is actually a good signing

 

[hohosaregood]

But why

 

[Alaskanice]

Welcome to Tram Teal, Evgeny!!

 

[Juxtaposer]

But why.