Toggle sidebar

Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

  • Work is still on-going to rebuild the site styling and features. Please report any issues you may experience so we can look into it. Click Here for Updates
Status
Not open for further replies.
OrrNumber4 said:
Peak Burns and Karlsson were absolutely worth that money. They could absolutely take over a game the way very few players ever can.
Click to expand...
The only defensemen worth that large a percentage of the cap are the elite #1s and IMO being an elite #1 defenseman is more about consistently creating small advantages for your team with and without the puck in every zone than it is about offensive brilliance. If you have the rare guy who does both, like Cale Makar, then you're cooking with gas but that does not describe Karlsson or Burns.

Herschel said:
I don't understand this comment. Is your position that you can't win with those players?
Click to expand...
You can't win a Cup if your #1 defenseman is purely offense oriented with little to no defensive ability. They play too many minutes in too many high leverage situations. Or at least it's extremely difficult to, I suppose it can be done if you have multiple franchise talents at forward and get excellent goaltending.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DG93
Karlsson is obviously not a top 5/10 guy anymore. But I think we might see a guy this year closer to who he was in Ottawa - the kind of guy who will be a fantasy sleeper if he plays 70+ games.

As for the "can't win with an offense-only #1 D-man .... the Avs just did. And I saw Makar make quite a few bad plays in his defensive zone - let's not pretend he's leagues above 2011-17 Karlsson as far as his overall game goes. And Karlsson never had the benefit of playing with a transition monster like MacKinnon or that kind of elite team the Avs do either. You could say it's only possible to win a Cup with profile of D if you have the elite forward talent but I'd say that is usually the only way you win Cups anyway. The Blues and maybe Canes are the only teams that didn't have that franchise top guy (Bergeron and Kopitar were those guys too).
 
  • Like
Reactions: timorous me, Alwalys, NiWa and 1 other person
I think it's ridiculous to think that offense oriented defense can win cups. Sure, there's probably outliers just like in every thing else, but the lack of a defense cost the Sharks the SCF series against the Pens. Sharks defense could not handle opponents offense. DW was never very good at building defenses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
stator said:
I think it's ridiculous to think that offense oriented defense can win cups. Sure, there's probably outliers just like in every thing else, but the lack of a defense cost the Sharks the SCF series against the Pens. Sharks defense could not handle opponents offense. DW was never very good at building defenses.
Click to expand...
I remember the Sharks losing that series because they were unable to score. That was a series that was somewhat inverted; San Jose's defense held Pittsburgh's offense at bay, but their offense couldn't score against an unremarkable Penguins defense.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: Juxtaposer and Sandisfan
Hodge said:
The only defensemen worth that large a percentage of the cap are the elite #1s and IMO being an elite #1 defenseman is more about consistently creating small advantages for your team with and without the puck in every zone than it is about offensive brilliance. If you have the rare guy who does both, like Cale Makar, then you're cooking with gas but that does not describe Karlsson or Burns.
Click to expand...
Makar is at best an average defensive defenceman right now and made a lot of poor plays in his own zone during the playoffs. Sure he could get better but he’s not that complete defenceman you’re talking about yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
OrrNumber4 said:
I remember the Sharks losing that series because they were unable to score. That was a series that was somewhat inverted; San Jose's defense held Pittsburgh's offense at bay, but their offense couldn't score against an unremarkable Penguins defense.
Click to expand...
Yes, and when Pitt scored, it was timely. Sheary OT winner, Bonino late-3rd tie breaker (Sharks failed a PP right after taboot). They also capitalized on so many mistakes.

Sharks offense was just so dry. Pavelski disappeared, Braun and M. Karlsson (lol) had 2 goals, Ward tied game 3 on a stinker, 2 shots on goal in the 3rd in Game 6.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan and Shark Finn
Kcoyote3 said:
He's really not. Makar, Fox, Hedman, Josi, Hughes, Ekblad, McAvoy are all way better. I'd say he's a top 15 D when he's healthy and plays like he gives a shit. So about 20 games a year.
Click to expand...
Forgetting Seider {sp} in Detroit
 
TheBeard said:
Makar is at best an average defensive defenceman right now and made a lot of poor plays in his own zone during the playoffs. Sure he could get better but he’s not that complete defenceman you’re talking about yet.
Click to expand...
Makar is actually really damn good in his zone. A lot of that has to do with him being a freak athlete and able to make up for those risks that he takes but to say he is average at best is just plain wrong. Is he some shut down defenseman? No not at all but him and Hedman are the two most complete defensemen in the league.
 
stator said:
I think it's ridiculous to think that offense oriented defense can win cups. Sure, there's probably outliers just like in every thing else, but the lack of a defense cost the Sharks the SCF series against the Pens. Sharks defense could not handle opponents offense. DW was never very good at building defenses.
Click to expand...

OrrNumber4 said:
I remember the Sharks losing that series because they were unable to score. That was a series that was somewhat inverted; San Jose's defense held Pittsburgh's offense at bay, but their offense couldn't score against an unremarkable Penguins defense.
Click to expand...

tiburon12 said:
Yes, and when Pitt scored, it was timely. Sheary OT winner, Bonino late-3rd tie breaker (Sharks failed a PP right after taboot). They also capitalized on so many mistakes.

Sharks offense was just so dry. Pavelski disappeared, Braun and M. Karlsson (lol) had 2 goals, Ward tied game 3 on a stinker, 2 shots on goal in the 3rd in Game 6.
Click to expand...
Too soon
 
  • Like
Reactions: landshark
My expected lines for tomorrow:
Timo-Hertl-Kunin
Lindblom-Couture-Labanc
Nieto-Bonino-Gregor
Lorentz-Sturm-Gadjovich

Harrington-EK
Ferraro-Vlasic
Simek-Benning

Reimer

This is going to be a LONG season
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
OrrNumber4 said:
I remember the Sharks losing that series because they were unable to score. That was a series that was somewhat inverted; San Jose's defense held Pittsburgh's offense at bay, but their offense couldn't score against an unremarkable Penguins defense.
Click to expand...
Murray came up big for them as the Sharks couldn't score against another backup. But the real cost to me was the bending of the defense giving up timely goals. Pollak/Dillion getting burned in one loss, Vlasic/Braun in another, etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
SJSharks72 said:
My expected lines for tomorrow:
Timo-Hertl-Kunin
Lindblom-Couture-Labanc
Nieto-Bonino-Gregor
Lorentz-Sturm-Gadjovich

Harrington-EK
Ferraro-Vlasic
Simek-Benning

Reimer

This is going to be a LONG season
Click to expand...
I'll be very curious to see the lineup at the end of the season.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: Sandisfan
stator said:
Murray came up big for them as the Sharks couldn't score against another backup. But the real cost to me was the bending of the defense giving up timely goals. Pollak/Dillion getting burned in one loss, Vlasic/Braun in another, etc.
Click to expand...
How I remember the series: The Penguins were great at putting a puck into open space, then beating the much slower Sharks to it. Their defense, which on paper WAS awful did a good job clearing rebounds after Murray made the first save and quickly transitioning the other way. Finally, two other reasons the Sharks' offense was so bad: Hornqvist injuring Hertl and Thornton playing with a broken finger caused by a Jay Buowmeester slash at the end of the Blues' series (yet another reason to hate the Blues, as if we needed one more).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan, DG93, timorous me and 1 other person
Lebanezer said:
I'll be very curious to see the lineup at the end of the season.
Click to expand...
Definitely. Timo, Bonino, Gregor, Nieto, Viel, Gadjovich, Svechnikov, Nutivaara, Harrington, Reimer are all out of contract at the end of the year. I’d like to keep Gregor but I’d move the rest. I’d also try to move Barabanov at the deadline because we’ve seen what guys with a little bit of term on a cheap (ish) contract get although I don’t know what the market would be. If we move every one of those guys (except Gregor I like him) the team becomes miles more interesting.

Kunin-Hertl-Eklund
Lindblom-Couture-Labanc
Lorentz-Bordeleau-Gregor
Raska-Sturm-Reedy

Simek-EK
Ferraro-Benning
Vlasic-Merkley

Kahkonen
Mann/Dell/Makaniemi
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: Sandisfan and DG93
tiburon12 said:
Yes, and when Pitt scored, it was timely. Sheary OT winner, Bonino late-3rd tie breaker (Sharks failed a PP right after taboot). They also capitalized on so many mistakes.

Sharks offense was just so dry. Pavelski disappeared, Braun and M. Karlsson (lol) had 2 goals, Ward tied game 3 on a stinker, 2 shots on goal in the 3rd in Game 6.
Click to expand...
This tends to happen when you don't have the puck very much. That's where the Pens were just better than the Sharks. Sharks D was fine except for the part about getting the puck and getting out of the zone. When Burns is your only competent puck mover on the blue line against the best of the best, you tend to run into such issues. Braun wasn't competent at moving the puck against top guys and Vlasic was almost always deferring to him to get out of the zone. And clearly nobody was going to do it between Dillon and Polak.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
If we're looking for a complimentary skill winger Milano just got released from his PTO, I'd give him a look
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom