Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Hodge]

Fans need to be more patient. There's nothing wrong with Bonino and Nieto filling spots in the top nine this year until Eklund and/or Bordeleau demonstrate they are ready for that kind of a role by dominating the AHL.

The goals for the NHL team this year should be to burn off another year of Vlasic and Karlsson's awful contracts, see if we have anything in Kunin, Lindblom, Labanc, Gregor or Gadjovich and lose as many games as possible.

 

[TheBeard]

I could see it in theory, just depends on how the chemistry would work out

Gregor being the F1/transition guy (considering zone entries are what he's good at and nothing after that), Bords as an F2/playmaker, Kunin as an F3/finisher

I’ve always believed in the idea of the third line being first and foremost your shutdown checking line and I just think Bords size limits that and the prioritized role limits his creativity, but that’s just me.

Fans need to be more patient. There's nothing wrong with Bonino and Nieto filling spots in the top nine this year until Eklund and/or Bordeleau demonstrate they are ready for that kind of a role by dominating the AHL.

The goals for the NHL team this year should be to burn off another year of Vlasic and Karlsson's awful contracts, see if we have anything in Kunin, Lindblom, Labanc, Gregor or Gadjovich and lose as many games as possible.

I don’t necessarily agree about burning off Karlsson because he’s still a fairly upper tier offensive defenceman (when healthy). The more we burn off the more we lose of that.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I’ve always believed in the idea of the third line being first and foremost your shutdown checking line and I just think Bords size limits that and the prioritized role limits his creativity, but that’s just me.

That's fair but I do think this roster has the ability to run the 4th line as that checking line with guys like Lorentz and Sturm being solid defensive forwards. And sure, Bords is smaller, but that's why you play him with a bigger guy like Kunin.

 

[TheBeard]

That's fair but I do think this roster has the ability to run the 4th line as that checking line with guys like Lorentz and Sturm being solid defensive forwards. And sure, Bords is smaller, but that's why you play him with a bigger guy like Kunin.

Then you’re just asking Kunin to prioritize keeping Thomas safe and running the risk of him putting himself in a bad position. I’d honestly like to see Logan on the third line TBH.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Then you’re just asking Kunin to prioritize keeping Thomas safe and running the risk of him putting himself in a bad position. I’d honestly like to see Logan on the third line TBH.

I'd prefer that too, Couture would be a good 3C at this point, but we just don't have the depth.

 

[TheBeard]

I'd prefer that too, Couture would be a good 3C at this point, but we just don't have the depth.

If Thomas can prove himself to be a capable 2C (even if the points aren’t there) then I’d rather spread what little depth we have around. Logan at least has some defensive savvy to his game plus he’s a bigger guy.

 

[Pavelski2112]

If Thomas can prove himself to be a capable 2C (even if the points aren’t there) then I’d rather spread what little depth we have around. Logan at least has some defensive savvy to his game plus he’s a bigger guy.

If you give that 2nd line incredibly easy minutes I could see it, but if this team had the cap/assets to get a good 2C this forward group would look a hell of a lot better.

 

[TheBeard]

If you give that 2nd line incredibly easy minutes I could see it, but if this team had the cap/assets to get a good 2C this forward group would look a hell of a lot better.

I honestly think MG’s goal with all his signings was to even out the minutes both offensively and defensively. First line will get 18 a game and the other three probably divided up in the 15-16 range.

 

[Hodge]

I don’t necessarily agree about burning off Karlsson because he’s still a fairly upper tier offensive defenceman (when healthy). The more we burn off the more we lose of that.

Karlsson is maybe providing value at a Torey Krug/Justin Faulk level which makes him $5mil/year overpaid. That’s barely less than what Vlasic is overpaid by and easily among the top five most negative value deals in the league.

 

[TheBeard]

Karlsson is maybe providing value at a Torey Krug/Justin Faulk level which makes him $5mil/year overpaid. That’s barely less than what Vlasic is overpaid by and easily among the top five most negative value deals in the league.

And it’s only going to get worse. Right now he still provides value. Vlasic is just a cesspool.

 

[Pavelski2112]

If EK played 82 games a year that contract would look nowhere near as bad, guaranteed

 

[OrrNumber4]

If EK played 82 games a year that contract would look nowhere near as bad, guaranteed

If this makes sense...the issue isn't so much that Karlsson is overpaid by 2-3 million. It's just the fact that he's not an 11.5 million dollar/player. That's the kind of player you can build a team around; an 8-million-dollar guy is just top-level support.

 

[Pavelski2112]

If this makes sense...the issue isn't so much that Karlsson is overpaid by 2-3 million. It's just the fact that he's not an 11.5 million dollar/player. That's the kind of player you can build a team around; an 8-million-dollar guy is just top-level support.

Oh sure, I don't know if Karlsson is the guy you build around anymore, but he still plays at a very high level when healthy. It's just that you can't count on that because he's good to play only maybe 50 games a year.

 

[Hodge]

Even at his absolute peak Karlsson was never worth 14% of the cap. Gaudy point totals for a defenseman just aren’t that valuable if the guy is a complete defensive liability for 25 minutes a night. Peak Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara, Hedman, Doughty, Weber are/were worth that kind of money but never Karlsson.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Even at his absolute peak Karlsson was never worth 14% of the cap. Gaudy point totals for a defenseman just aren’t that valuable if the guy is a complete defensive liability for 25 minutes a night. Peak Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara, Hedman, Doughty, Weber are/were worth that kind of money but never Karlsson.

This is absolutely false. Karlsson at his absolute peak was a top-5 player in the league and almost single-handedly carried Ottawa to a Stanley Cup Final.

 

[Hodge]

This is absolutely false. Karlsson at his absolute peak was a top-5 player in the league and almost single-handedly carried Ottawa to a Stanley Cup Final.

That team was terrible and very lucky to get as far as they did. Guy Boucher had more to do with it than Karlsson. There’s a reason the Senators never approached that level of success prior to or after 2017.

Peak Karlsson was in the Burns, Josi, Sergei Gonchar, Doug Wilson tier of prolific “fourth forward” type defensemen who you can’t win with.

 

[Pavelski2112]

That team was terrible and very lucky to get as far as they did. Guy Boucher had more to do with it than Karlsson. There’s a reason the Senators never approached that level of success prior to or after 2017.

Peak Karlsson was in the Burns, Josi, Sergei Gonchar, Doug Wilson tier of prolific “fourth forward” type defensemen who you can’t win with.

Guy Boucher's system was good for Ottawa's talent level but Karlsson had probably the best playoff run by a d-man in the Cap era that wasn't Keith, Makar, or Pronger.

Hell, Karlsson in 2019 was a huge part of why the Sharks went so far, and if he and Pavs didn't get injured, they probably would've made the Final again.

 

[Hodge]

Guy Boucher's system was good for Ottawa's talent level but Karlsson had probably the best playoff run by a d-man in the Cap era that wasn't Keith, Makar, or Pronger.

Hell, Karlsson in 2019 was a huge part of why the Sharks went so far, and if he and Pavs didn't get injured, they probably would've made the Final again.

There's a big difference between putting up points, which Karlsson has always done at an elite level, and helping a team win games, especially as a defenseman. In the 2019 playoffs Karlsson was essentially deployed as a #2/#3 which is ideal for his skillset as long as you have the depth to afford it.

You can't devote 1/7th of your cap space to a #2/#3 defenseman and expect to ice a competitive team. For that level of cap commitment you need a true two-way ace who dominates at both ends of the ice. Even at his peak Karlsson only dominated at one end and wasn't even passable at the other.

 

[Pavelski2112]

There's a big difference between putting up points, which Karlsson has always done at an elite level, and helping a team win games, especially as a defenseman. In the 2019 playoffs Karlsson was essentially deployed as a #2/#3 which is ideal for his skillset as long as you have the depth to afford it.

You can't devote 1/7th of your cap space to a #2/#3 defenseman and expect to ice a competitive team. For that level of cap commitment you need a true two-way ace who dominates at both ends of the ice. Even at his peak Karlsson only dominated at one end and wasn't even passable at the other.

I don't disagree with the idea that you shouldn't spend as much on a #2/3 but at his best, Karlsson was not that. He helped his team win a whole lot of games for a very long time.

 

[Hodge]

I don't disagree with the idea that you shouldn't spend as much on a #2/3 but at his best, Karlsson was not that. He helped his team win a whole lot of games for a very long time.

I don’t have a ton of recollection of Karlsson’s game prior to the achilles injury in 2013 so maybe he was good enough defensively to be a true elite #1 back then. But at least since that injury his defensive skating has been a huge liability and seems to have become a bigger issue with each successive lower body injury he sustained.

 

[OrrNumber4]

Even at his absolute peak Karlsson was never worth 14% of the cap. Gaudy point totals for a defenseman just aren’t that valuable if the guy is a complete defensive liability for 25 minutes a night. Peak Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara, Hedman, Doughty, Weber are/were worth that kind of money but never Karlsson.

Peak Burns and Karlsson were absolutely worth that money. They could absolutely take over a game the way very few players ever can.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

Peak Burns and Karlsson were absolutely worth that money. They could absolutely take over a game the way very few players ever can.

Burns never insisted of being the highest paid defenseman in the league and he was much much better than Karlsson has been as a Shark.

 

[Herschel]

That team was terrible and very lucky to get as far as they did. Guy Boucher had more to do with it than Karlsson. There’s a reason the Senators never approached that level of success prior to or after 2017.

Peak Karlsson was in the Burns, Josi, Sergei Gonchar, Doug Wilson tier of prolific “fourth forward” type defensemen who you can’t win with.

I don't understand this comment. Is your position that you can't win with those players?

 

[Bizz]

EK65 is still a top 5 Defenseman in the NHL when he's healthy.

 

[Groo]

Peak Burns and Karlsson were absolutely worth that money. They could absolutely take over a game the way very few players ever can.

We never had EK at his peak, DW way over payed him and he was undoubtedly bidding against himself with the deal he handed EK