Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Sharkz4Fun]

I’d possibly take a flyer on OEL for a reasonable price, particularly if we’re losing Karlsson.

NGL that's probably the worst player in FA they could get, so fitting suggestion. Look at the HAUL Anaheim got for Klingberg last deadline!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If the Sharks are going after a reclamation project, it should be Pacioretty.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

If the Sharks are going after a reclamation project, it should be Pacioretty.

Yes please. Doubt he wants to go to a rebuilding team though. Would bet on him going to a contender like Dallas or Florida.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Yes please. Doubt he wants to go to a rebuilding team though. Would bet on him going to a contender like Dallas or Florida.

He may if there aren’t any open spots on those teams.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If the Sharks are going after a reclamation project, it should be Pacioretty.

Agreed, I’d give Pac a one year deal, then move him to a contender retained at the deadline, could likely be a free 2nd round pick.

 

[TheBeard]

Agreed, I’d give Pac a one year deal, then move him to a contender retained at the deadline, could likely be a free 2nd round pick.

Is he even gonna be healthy to start the season?

 

[OrrNumber4]

It's interesting that 3 of the past four cup winners bucked an established trend. St. Louis and Las Vegas won without building through the draft, and Colorado won with a strong "stay-the-course"/no big trades mentality.

If the Sharks aren't going to compete any time soon, then they should be open to picks far in the future and allowing high retention in trades.

 

[Cas]

It's interesting that 3 of the past four cup winners bucked an established trend. St. Louis and Las Vegas won without building through the draft, and Colorado won with a strong "stay-the-course"/no big trades mentality.

I think what this says is that the best way to win the Cup is... simply to get good hockey players. There are different ways to do that - some easier, some harder, but fundamentally, there is no magic formula outside of "get good players."

We're far enough away that it doesn't matter to us, though - we don't have enough good hockey players to ice a starting lineup, let alone a team.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Is he even gonna be healthy to start the season?

I don’t know but he can be signed to a one year bonus sort of deal.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think what this says is that the best way to win the Cup is... simply to get good hockey players. There are different ways to do that - some easier, some harder, but fundamentally, there is no magic formula outside of "get good players."

We're far enough away that it doesn't matter to us, though - we don't have enough good hockey players to ice a starting lineup, let alone a team.

Yep, pretty much this.

I think if MG stays the course, we will start being relevant. I think he has taken a giant step in GM experience in only one year, I can't wait to see what's going to happen in couple of years. I like that when MG wants something, he makes it happen. No one is safe under GMMG, anyone could be traded if the price is right.

 

[tiburon12]

If the Sharks are going after a reclamation project, it should be Pacioretty.

Thus completing the craig rivet trade loop

 

[Hodge]

It's interesting that 3 of the past four cup winners bucked an established trend. St. Louis and Las Vegas won without building through the draft, and Colorado won with a strong "stay-the-course"/no big trades mentality.

If the Sharks aren't going to compete any time soon, then they should be open to picks far in the future and allowing high retention in trades.

Fundamentally, though, step one for all these teams has just been accumulating assets in the form of picks and prospects. Vegas turned Suzuki (1st rounder), Brannstrom (1st), Krebs (1st), two additional 1sts, two 2nds and a 3rd into Eichel, Stone and Pacioretty. St. Louis turned 1st round pick Tage Thompson and three other 1sts into ROR and Brayden Schenn.

It’s too rigid a strategy to just say we’re going to build through the draft. You need to know when to cash in excess prospects and picks for prime aged players signed to reasonable contracts. But the first thing you need to do is acquire that draft and prospect capital.

 

[Alaskanice]

Sharangovich is apparently available. I wanted him back in the Timo trade. I’d still like to see him in teal.

 

[Gecklund]

Sharangovich is apparently available. I wanted him back in the Timo trade. I’d still like to see him in teal.

I also like Sharangovich but I really don’t think he’s the type of guy for us. I think we can both agree that while we hope for better from Zetterlund this season, he had a bit of a rough start with SJ. Sharangovich is notably less skilled and more of a complimentary player than Zetterlund. I’d be worried Sharangovich would be another Melker, Sorensen, or Galiardi. Unless we are flipping like Labanc or Gregor for him, not super interested just based on his fit with the team.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Fundamentally, though, step one for all these teams has just been accumulating assets in the form of picks and prospects. Vegas turned Suzuki (1st rounder), Brannstrom (1st), Krebs (1st), two additional 1sts, two 2nds and a 3rd into Eichel, Stone and Pacioretty. St. Louis turned 1st round pick Tage Thompson and three other 1sts into ROR and Brayden Schenn.

It’s too rigid a strategy to just say we’re going to build through the draft. You need to know when to cash in excess prospects and picks for prime aged players signed to reasonable contracts. But the first thing you need to do is acquire that draft and prospect capital.

I know people are allowed to be upset that Vegas won because f*** Vegas, but the anti-tank crowd should be overjoyed that Vegas won. They proved you don’t need to tank and that you can build a core through trades and free agency. This is a wonderful development and great news for the rest of the league.

 

[landshark]

I know people are allowed to be upset that Vegas won because f*** Vegas, but the anti-tank crowd should be overjoyed that Vegas won. They proved you don’t need to tank and that you can build a core through trades and free agency. This is a wonderful development and great news for the rest of the league.

But didn't they get most of their assets through the expansion draft and then the subsequent first-time-this-has-happened-in-a-long-time-expansion-draft type trades for picks and players to protect other players from being selected? Which were additional assets they could use to trade for more better players...

They got to start with a clean cap slate and lots of players to choose from. GM's sorta lost their shit around the league throwing assets at the VeeGeeKay :vomit: to avoid having certain players picked during the expansion draft.

I'm not sure if the shoe fits here because no other team is going to get to start with a clean cap slate and other GM's literally throwing assets at them to not dismantle a core piece of their team. That's a pretty unique situation, I think.

EDIT: I know it's been a few years since the expansion draft, but that set them up for success.

 

[Juxtaposer]

But didn't they get most of their assets through the expansion draft and then the subsequent first-time-this-has-happened-in-a-long-time-expansion-draft type trades for picks and players to protect other players from being selected? Which were additional assets they could use to trade for more better players...

They got to start with a clean cap slate and lots of players to choose from. GM's sorta lost their shit around the league throwing assets at the VeeGeeKay to avoid having certain players picked during the expansion draft.

I'm not sure if the shoe fits here because no other team is going to get to start with a clean cap slate and other GM's literally throwing assets at them to not dismantle a core piece of their team. That's a pretty unique situation, I think.

EDIT: I know it's been a few years since the expansion draft, but that set them up for success.

I genuinely don’t know the answer to this question, so I’m not being rhetorical: how many players from the original Vegas expansion draft are even still there? The only ones I can think of who are even sort of impact players are Theodore, Marchesseault, Smith, and Martinez.

The point is that of their four clear best players, two were traded for (Stone, Eichel) and one was signed as a UFA (Pietrangelo). They acquired a true 6’2” 1C, a Selke caliber power forward, and a true #1 RHD without tanking. I know Vegas had a clean slate and the expansion draft was favorable, but they acquired their best three players (who happen to be the three types of players people always say you can’t acquire outside the draft) outside their organization. Look at the assets that they traded for Stone and Eichel, it’s not like those aren’t assets that most teams in the league couldn’t match if they had the guts to pull the trigger.

 

[Alaskanice]

I genuinely don’t know the answer to this question, so I’m not being rhetorical: how many players from the original Vegas expansion draft are even still there? The only ones I can think of who are even sort of impact players are Theodore, Marchesseault, Smith, and Martinez.

The point is that of their four clear best players, two were traded for (Stone, Eichel) and one was signed as a UFA (Pietrangelo). They acquired a true 6’2” 1C, a Selke caliber power forward, and a true #1 RHD without tanking. I know Vegas had a clean slate and the expansion draft was favorable, but they acquired their best three players (who happen to be the three types of players people always say you can’t acquire outside the draft) outside their organization. Look at the assets that they traded for Stone and Eichel, it’s not like those aren’t assets that most teams in the league couldn’t match if they had the guts to pull the trigger.

Martinez was traded for. Not part of the expansion.

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

But didn't they get most of their assets through the expansion draft and then the subsequent first-time-this-has-happened-in-a-long-time-expansion-draft type trades for picks and players to protect other players from being selected? Which were additional assets they could use to trade for more better players...

They got to start with a clean cap slate and lots of players to choose from. GM's sorta lost their shit around the league throwing assets at the VeeGeeKay :vomit: to avoid having certain players picked during the expansion draft.

I'm not sure if the shoe fits here because no other team is going to get to start with a clean cap slate and other GM's literally throwing assets at them to not dismantle a core piece of their team. That's a pretty unique situation, I think.

EDIT: I know it's been a few years since the expansion draft, but that set them up for success.

I posted this last week, but it is worth repeating. Here is the haul Vegas got from just the trades around its expansion draft:

Players: Reilly Smith, Nikita Gusev, Shea Theodore, Alex Tuch (and some others of lesser value)

Draft Picks: 2017: 2 1sts, 2 2nds, 1 5th, 1 6th (gave up 1 3rd, 1 4th)
2018: 1 3rd, 1 4th, 1 6th (gave up 1 7th)
2019: 2 2nds, 1 3rd, 1 5th
2020: 1 2nd

The last two expansion drafts were set up to produce an average team because both franchises paid a ton to the league ($500M and $650M, I think). But Vegas was able to pick up a lot of added values from these trades that Seattle did not. Vegas is not a model of team building that can be repeated because it relied heavily on this huge shot of added talent and draft picks.

 

[Lebanezer]

I know people are allowed to be upset that Vegas won because f*** Vegas, but the anti-tank crowd should be overjoyed that Vegas won. They proved you don’t need to tank and that you can build a core through trades and free agency. This is a wonderful development and great news for the rest of the league.

I think the most interesting part of this is that because Vegas is so young as a franchise they've operated with little regard for loyalty. Thus illustrating the benefits of running the team strictly like a business. They dealt all 3 of their 1st 3 first ever 1st round picks, they've moved any and everyone they could if they felt they didn't fit anymore financially or otherwise.

 

[hohosaregood]

I genuinely don’t know the answer to this question, so I’m not being rhetorical: how many players from the original Vegas expansion draft are even still there? The only ones I can think of who are even sort of impact players are Theodore, Marchesseault, Smith, and Martinez.

The point is that of their four clear best players, two were traded for (Stone, Eichel) and one was signed as a UFA (Pietrangelo). They acquired a true 6’2” 1C, a Selke caliber power forward, and a true #1 RHD without tanking. I know Vegas had a clean slate and the expansion draft was favorable, but they acquired their best three players (who happen to be the three types of players people always say you can’t acquire outside the draft) outside their organization. Look at the assets that they traded for Stone and Eichel, it’s not like those aren’t assets that most teams in the league couldn’t match if they had the guts to pull the trigger.

My only counterargument is that they pretty much ended up getting the equivalent trade currency that a team would get out of a tank in the expansion draft. Like the pick that they used to get for Brannstrom, who was the key piece in the Stone trade, was a 1st from NYI to take JF Berube instead of Grabovski. For a tank team to have the trade value to pull that off, it'd take 2 or 3 years of selling off parts and drafting to get that kind of trade currency.

The counterargument for this counterargument though is that they did an excellent job identifying players to acquire in the draft and abusing the other GM's stupidity, and then continued to maximize value after the fact.

 

[LadyStanley]

Potential acquisitions.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

I think the most interesting part of this is that because Vegas is so young as a franchise they've operated with little regard for loyalty. Thus illustrating the benefits of running the team strictly like a business. They dealt all 3 of their 1st 3 first ever 1st round picks, they've moved any and everyone they could if they felt they didn't fit anymore financially or otherwise.

Imagine how even just a small move like not re-signing Labanc after his abysmal 1 million season changes the outlook of the team; Being able to not only have an extra 4.6m to use on whatever the last 3 seasons and next, but also not having to completely waste a roster/lineup spot. My biggest problem with how this franchise has been run is there has been loyalty for those who haven't deserved it, and no loyalty for those who have.

 

[Alaskanice]

Over in the trade forum, where they’re discussing Karlsson trades, someone floated Debrincat, Boucher and Kleven. What do y’all think about that?

 

[Barrie22]

Over in the trade forum, where they’re discussing Karlsson trades, someone floated Debrincat, Boucher and Kleven. What do y’all think about that?

Add at minimum a 1st and maybe a 2nd