Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Hodge]

Over in the trade forum, where they’re discussing Karlsson trades, someone floated Debrincat, Boucher and Kleven. What do y’all think about that?

We just traded Timo because he was deemed too old and too expensive for our timeline. Why are we acquiring an inferior winger who’s roughly the same age and will demand roughly the same contract?

 

[WTFetus]

Over in the trade forum, where they’re discussing Karlsson trades, someone floated Debrincat, Boucher and Kleven. What do y’all think about that?

With 0 retention and the expectation that Grier would immediately flip Debrincat, I’d be okay with it.

 

[landshark]

I genuinely don’t know the answer to this question, so I’m not being rhetorical: how many players from the original Vegas expansion draft are even still there? The only ones I can think of who are even sort of impact players are Theodore, Marchesseault, Smith, and Martinez.

The point is that of their four clear best players, two were traded for (Stone, Eichel) and one was signed as a UFA (Pietrangelo). They acquired a true 6’2” 1C, a Selke caliber power forward, and a true #1 RHD without tanking. I know Vegas had a clean slate and the expansion draft was favorable, but they acquired their best three players (who happen to be the three types of players people always say you can’t acquire outside the draft) outside their organization. Look at the assets that they traded for Stone and Eichel, it’s not like those aren’t assets that most teams in the league couldn’t match if they had the guts to pull the trigger.

That's fair, but aside from the picks those assets kinda had to come from the expansion draft, sometimes twice removed. I get it. They did go out and make the moves to get even better after their first couple years.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Le Rosbeef]

To Buffalo:

Karlsson with Sharks retaining 3 million

To San Jose:

13th
Rosen
Jokiharju
2024 2nd

Quite like this trade from the main boards on EK65. That 13th pick could be very valuable indeed.

In other news, Pittsburgh still makes a lot of sense to me if we swallow the contracts of, say, Granlund and Rutta in return.

 

[mogambomoroo]

Quite like this trade from the main boards on EK65. That 13th pick could be very valuable indeed.

In other news, Pittsburgh still makes a lot of sense to me if we swallow the contracts of, say, Granlund and Rutta in return.

I like that Pittsburgh deal. I think Granlund could under the radar good deal to take even though it is little over priced. He still has some wheels and his success in last year IIHF men's world tournament was still very impressive. Get a 1st round (14), Granlund, Rutta and one of the better prospects.

 

[STL Shark]

I know people are allowed to be upset that Vegas won because f*** Vegas, but the anti-tank crowd should be overjoyed that Vegas won. They proved you don’t need to tank and that you can build a core through trades and free agency. This is a wonderful development and great news for the rest of the league.

They're the big anomaly though in that they basically did rebuild from Day 1. They leveraged cap space and threats of taking players (or not) into Smith/Marchessault, 1st and a 3rd for taking Thorburn, 2nd + Gusev from Tampa, 1st and 2nd from NYI, Theodore from ANA, Tuch + 3rd from Minnesota, 1st and 2nd from CBJ, and 2nd from PIT.

So starting at Day 1 as a franchise, they had a lottery pick in their first draft, all of their own picks plus they got like 8 more 1st and 2nd round picks, a Norris caliber D-prospect (Theodore), and an A/B prospect in Tuch. All of that plus whatever they were actually able to take off of other teams (that they got insanely lucky with everyone hitting - Smith, March, Karlsson, Miller, MAF).

Any team undergoing a rebuild could only dream to be able to acquire the prospect and pick haul that Vegas did simply by existing and having the expansion draft rules catered to them (relative to what SJ endured). They made some really bad trades and it didn't even phase them because they had so much currency (which is the whole goal of a rebuild - accumulate currency in young players, picks, prospects).

 

[Alaskanice]

They're the big anomaly though in that they basically did rebuild from Day 1. They leveraged cap space and threats of taking players (or not) into Smith/Marchessault, 1st and a 3rd for taking Thorburn, 2nd + Gusev from Tampa, 1st and 2nd from NYI, Theodore from ANA, Tuch + 3rd from Minnesota, 1st and 2nd from CBJ, and 2nd from PIT.

So starting at Day 1 as a franchise, they had a lottery pick in their first draft, all of their own picks plus they got like 8 more 1st and 2nd round picks, a Norris caliber D-prospect (Theodore), and an A/B prospect in Tuch. All of that plus whatever they were actually able to take off of other teams (that they got insanely lucky with everyone hitting - Smith, March, Karlsson, Miller, MAF).

Any team undergoing a rebuild could only dream to be able to acquire the prospect and pick haul that Vegas did simply by existing and having the expansion draft rules catered to them (relative to what SJ endured). They made some really bad trades and it didn't even phase them because they had so much currency (which is the whole goal of a rebuild - accumulate currency in young players, picks, prospects).

The were charmed.

 

[Juxtaposer]

They're the big anomaly though in that they basically did rebuild from Day 1. They leveraged cap space and threats of taking players (or not) into Smith/Marchessault, 1st and a 3rd for taking Thorburn, 2nd + Gusev from Tampa, 1st and 2nd from NYI, Theodore from ANA, Tuch + 3rd from Minnesota, 1st and 2nd from CBJ, and 2nd from PIT.

So starting at Day 1 as a franchise, they had a lottery pick in their first draft, all of their own picks plus they got like 8 more 1st and 2nd round picks, a Norris caliber D-prospect (Theodore), and an A/B prospect in Tuch. All of that plus whatever they were actually able to take off of other teams (that they got insanely lucky with everyone hitting - Smith, March, Karlsson, Miller, MAF).

Any team undergoing a rebuild could only dream to be able to acquire the prospect and pick haul that Vegas did simply by existing and having the expansion draft rules catered to them (relative to what SJ endured). They made some really bad trades and it didn't even phase them because they had so much currency (which is the whole goal of a rebuild - accumulate currency in young players, picks, prospects).

This is some wild revisionist history. Their expansion draft was universally lambasted and their prospect pool was mediocre at best. A bunch of mid-late 1sts and Theodore, who was seen as expendable by Anaheim.

Any team has the assets equal to what Vegas gave up for Stone and Eichel.

The point is that Vegas never drafted in the top-5. That is the definition of tanking and Vegas never did that. No team in the post-2005 lockout era has been able to do that.

 

[gaucholoco3]

This is some wild revisionist history. Their expansion draft was universally lambasted and their prospect pool was mediocre at best. A bunch of mid-late 1sts and Theodore, who was seen as expendable by Anaheim.

Any team has the assets equal to what Vegas gave up for Stone and Eichel.

The point is that Vegas never drafted in the top-5. That is the definition of tanking and Vegas never did that. No team in the post-2005 lockout era has been able to do that.

St. Louis might have something to say about being a cup team that didn’t pick in the top 5.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

St. Louis might have something to say about being a cup team that didn’t pick in the top 5.

What are they gonna say? That they drafted Pietrangelo 4th overall?

 

[Shark in Hockeytown]

This is some wild revisionist history. Their expansion draft was universally lambasted and their prospect pool was mediocre at best. A bunch of mid-late 1sts and Theodore, who was seen as expendable by Anaheim.

Any team has the assets equal to what Vegas gave up for Stone and Eichel.

The point is that Vegas never drafted in the top-5. That is the definition of tanking and Vegas never did that. No team in the post-2005 lockout era has been able to do that.

Vegas made smart picks in the expansion draft and assembled a deep team without proven star talent. But the windfall of players and picks they got from the trades around the expansion draft was critical in providing the pool of players and picks they used later in trades to get proven star talent.

The Pacioretty, Stone, and Eichel trades were all "Doug Wilson" trades; target a star players who is going to be traded because his situation at his current club is unsettled either because of upcoming UFA status (Pacioretty, Stone) or a break with the club (Eichel). These deals always look like wins because the team has to trade the star player, and the acquiring team can buy cheap with quantity to get quality. Remember that Vegas was also in on Karlsson but did not close the deal. Also, they traded a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for Tomas Tatar which looks like an overpay.

The Vegas model is not replicable because no other team will get the windfall of picks and players that it did from the trades around its expansion draft. Seattle got nothing this way because GMs learned that those trade with the expansion team were foolish. You're going to lose a player in any case, so why pay more to keep a specific player you cannot protect?

 

[Barrie22]

This is some wild revisionist history. Their expansion draft was universally lambasted and their prospect pool was mediocre at best. A bunch of mid-late 1sts and Theodore, who was seen as expendable by Anaheim.

Any team has the assets equal to what Vegas gave up for Stone and Eichel.

The point is that Vegas never drafted in the top-5. That is the definition of tanking and Vegas never did that. No team in the post-2005 lockout era has been able to do that.

Just the 3 top 15 picks the first draft.

 

[STL Shark]

This is some wild revisionist history. Their expansion draft was universally lambasted and their prospect pool was mediocre at best. A bunch of mid-late 1sts and Theodore, who was seen as expendable by Anaheim.

Any team has the assets equal to what Vegas gave up for Stone and Eichel.

The point is that Vegas never drafted in the top-5. That is the definition of tanking and Vegas never did that. No team in the post-2005 lockout era has been able to do that.

It's not though. Everyone was impressed at how many draft picks that Vegas accumulated in their expansion draft process. Were they wildly lucky that William Karlsson, Reilly Smith, and to a much lesser extent Marchessault panned out? Absolutely. Does that change the objective facts that they were served up a kings ransom of future assets to build this roster with? Absolutely not.

Quite literally the only way that they were able to trade for Stone, Eichel, etc. is because of the draft picks that they were gifted in the expansion draft for teams trying to control who Vegas took or didn't take from their roster. McPhee fleeced almost half the league with that and they learned heading into the Seattle draft to just lose who you're going to lose and don't compound the error like they did with Vegas.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

The were charmed.

Eventually you have to pick one. Do you trust GM's and Coach's etc. etc. (like you've said you do many times) to make the best decisions simply because they have the titles of Managers and Coaches, or do you understand that sometimes people who aren't qualified can be in those positions as well?

Vegas won fair and square. Trying to do mental gymnastics to cope and make it seem less legit eventually will get tiresome for those who don't want to admit it. They did it absolutely cleanly too which just makes it far more impressive. It shows that there are moves you make when you *kind of* want to win, and there are moves you make when you *want* to win.

 

[Pavelski2112]

f*** Vegas. They are the epitome of cringe and evil.

Literally the most unlikable franchise in the entire NHL, by a wide margin.

 

[Alaskanice]

Eventually you have to pick one. Do you trust GM's and Coach's etc. etc. (like you've said you do many times) to make the best decisions simply because they have the titles of Managers and Coaches, or do you understand that sometimes people who aren't qualified can be in those positions as well?

Vegas won fair and square. Trying to do mental gymnastics to cope and make it seem less legit eventually will get tiresome for those who don't want to admit it. They did it absolutely cleanly too which just makes it far more impressive. It shows that there are moves you make when you *kind of* want to win, and there are moves you make when you *want* to win.

It was in reference to their expansion draft and trades.
Yes, I do support GMs and coaches. They are in those positions because they earned it. That’s my view.

 

[NWSharkie]

Eventually you have to pick one. Do you trust GM's and Coach's etc. etc. (like you've said you do many times) to make the best decisions simply because they have the titles of Managers and Coaches, or do you understand that sometimes people who aren't qualified can be in those positions as well?

Vegas won fair and square. Trying to do mental gymnastics to cope and make it seem less legit eventually will get tiresome for those who don't want to admit it. They did it absolutely cleanly too which just makes it far more impressive. It shows that there are moves you make when you *kind of* want to win, and there are moves you make when you *want* to win.

Eh, there's room for a little bit of gymnastics without denying your point, though. Vegas got lucky in that the NHL brought them into the league under a scheme no GM had ever seen before and without the time for them to adapt to/plan for it. They got lucky in that the collection of "misfit toys" they drafted collectively to a level they weren't supposed to be capable of, and that some of them were able to sustain that high level of play given the opportunity to do so. They got lucky in that Mark Stone's back wasn't totally f***ed after the first surgery and that he was able to a) come back at all, and b) time the second surgery so that the team could use the LTIR space to compete while he was out. They got lucky that Pavelski used his injury magic buff in the first round against Minnesota.

Every champ gets lucky along the way, and saying they had a "charmed" season/run-up doesn't mean they didn't fairly earn the Cup win that I absolutely hate their guts for.

 

[OrrNumber4]

It's not though. Everyone was impressed at how many draft picks that Vegas accumulated in their expansion draft process.

Luck implies that Vegas did nothing to plan around weaponizing their cap space, maximizing their returns, and taking advantage of all teams. Yes they were given very favorable expansion rules (expected given the giant expansion fee), but they certainly made use of it.

Were they wildly lucky that William Karlsson, Reilly Smith, and to a much lesser extent Marchessault panned out? Absolutely. Does that change the objective facts that they were served up a kings ransom of future assets to build this roster with? Absolutely not.

Again, luck implies that they just shrugged their shoulders and took Karlsson/Smith/etc. and were pleasantly surprised when those guys did so well. You're giving no credit to their pro scouting staff, which has a great track record.

 

[Jargon]

Eh, there's room for a little bit of gymnastics without denying your point, though. Vegas got lucky in that the NHL brought them into the league under a scheme no GM had ever seen before and without the time for them to adapt to/plan for it. They got lucky in that the collection of "misfit toys" they drafted collectively to a level they weren't supposed to be capable of, and that some of them were able to sustain that high level of play given the opportunity to do so. They got lucky in that Mark Stone's back wasn't totally f***ed after the first surgery and that he was able to a) come back at all, and b) time the second surgery so that the team could use the LTIR space to compete while he was out. They got lucky that Pavelski used his injury magic buff in the first round against Minnesota.

Every champ gets lucky along the way, and saying they had a "charmed" season/run-up doesn't mean they didn't fairly earn the Cup win that I absolutely hate their guts for.

“Injury magic buff” made me laugh.

 

[LadyStanley]

LeBrun: Who will stay and who will move in the NHL’s UFA goalie carousel?

There is a long list of big-name pending UFA netminders available in the NHL's goalie carousel this summer.

theathletic.com

LeBrun looks at pending UFA goalies. A few older guys may not find a place at the table. Former Sharks goalies on the list include Hill (who would like to stay with VGK), Griess, Reimer (who won't be back with Sharks and appreciate that Sharks are letting them talk to other teams before free agency).

 

[dzubrus8]

hey all, Devils fan coming in peace. Well, I should say a Devils fan who is moving to San Jose for school for two years and wants to jump on the Sharks bandwagon.

With that, it's nice to meet you all and I hope to be a part of this group for the time to come. was wondering if I could have your help learning about the roster. Would love to hear the one-liner on the Sharks NHL roster player-by-player and what the depth chart is looking like.

For example, here's a quick rundown for the Devs:

Jack Hughes - 100 pt franchise player, 22 years old, locked down for 8years, long-term 1C
Nico Hischier - elite two way center and captain/leader, 4 years left on deal to UFA, a good 1C that doesn't need to play 1C mins all year
....and then an example of a less obvious player
Nate Bastian - big body, plays hard-nosed but hasn't overcome the injury bug; RFA this year probably no more than a 4RW
Brendan Smith - signed a two-year deal last year, coming off the bench as 7th D-man; brings some physicality but takes a lot of penalties; won't play much next year

I appreciate it in advance! Would also love some recs on where to learn more about the team. How's the SB Nation Sharks site? Are there other blogs / sites to read up on?

 

[hohosaregood]

hey all, Devils fan coming in peace. Well, I should say a Devils fan who is moving to San Jose for school for two years and wants to jump on the Sharks bandwagon.

With that, it's nice to meet you all and I hope to be a part of this group for the time to come. was wondering if I could have your help learning about the roster. Would love to hear the one-liner on the Sharks NHL roster player-by-player and what the depth chart is looking like.

For example, here's a quick rundown for the Devs:

Jack Hughes - 100 pt franchise player, 22 years old, locked down for 8years, long-term 1C
Nico Hischier - elite two way center and captain/leader, 4 years left on deal to UFA, a good 1C that doesn't need to play 1C mins all year
....and then an example of a less obvious player
Nate Bastian - big body, plays hard-nosed but hasn't overcome the injury bug; RFA this year probably no more than a 4RW
Brendan Smith - signed a two-year deal last year, coming off the bench as 7th D-man; brings some physicality but takes a lot of penalties; won't play much next year

I appreciate it in advance! Would also love some recs on where to learn more about the team. How's the SB Nation Sharks site? Are there other blogs / sites to read up on?

There's not too many sharks players to really pay attention to right now.

Hertl is a big body possession center who is usually at his best down low and along the boards but he's been inconsistent the last couple years.

Couture is a cerebral 2 way forward that's more of a scorer than a passer. Somewhat maligned in the regular season but might have found a better fit with Quinn.

Barabanov is a skilled puck carrier with a lot of tenacity. Does a good job using his agility and finesse on entries and protecting pucks on the boards.

Sturm is a big body bottom 6 center. Kinda a classic stereotype there but not much offensive instinct. Has a strong drive to win and can clutch things out on individual efforts from time to time.

Lorentz is a good forechecking 4th line center. Good aggression, not much skill.

Gregor...speedy with hands of stone unless it's to ruin the sharks tank.

Karlsson is Karlsson. The system is tailor made to let him pinch aggressively from the blue line so he can end up down low in the offensive zone frequently. May not be around for much longer.

Ferraro is an overly aggressive defensive defenseman whose instincts tell him to attack on both ends of the ice more than he really should.

Knyzhov and Thrun are both young defensive defensemen with potential. Knyzhov was injured for a while but he's got a toolsy kit but still pretty raw. Thrun is less toolsy but seems to have a good hockey IQ.

Prospects to watch: Eklund, Gushchin, Bordeleau, and probably a few more coming up and down next year.


San Jose Hockey Now is the only noteworthy sharks publication now that The Athletic cut it's Sharks coverage. It's $3 month and pretty worthwhile.

 

[Shark Finn]

hey all, Devils fan coming in peace. Well, I should say a Devils fan who is moving to San Jose for school for two years and wants to jump on the Sharks bandwagon.

Welcome to the world (and board) of pain.

 

[Bizz]

If the Sharks are going after a reclamation project, it should be Pacioretty.

I wouldn't hate it if the Sharks gave Johnny Quick a 1Mx2, because let's face it none of our goalie prospects are even close to being NHL caliber/ready.

I know people are allowed to be upset that Vegas won because f*** Vegas, but the anti-tank crowd should be overjoyed that Vegas won. They proved you don’t need to tank and that you can build a core through trades and free agency. This is a wonderful development and great news for the rest of the league.

This.

Vegas won a Cup because they had a GM that had the cajones to do what was needed and wouldn't take losing as an option, loyalty be damned. If the Eichel trade and Kessel FA signing doesn't happen, I doubt they even make the playoffs this year.

Any GM that doesn't try to win a Cup every year is useless and doesn't deserve a job in the NHL.