Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[LadyStanley]

 

[LadyStanley]

Of course not. Would be replaced with lesser players and futures.

 

[LadyStanley]

NHL prospect trade board: Which top assets could contenders move at the deadline?

Ranking the top prospect trade chips that contending teams have heading into the 2023 NHL trade deadline.

theathletic.com

Paywall. The Athletic looks at some of the assets/players that may be in play as returns for trades.

 

[Jargon]

On Holtz he isn't a soft guy without a work ethic or motor or a guy who lacks character. I remember in his DY everyone at EP raved about Holtz character and said everyone on the team side said the same things. It was said he had one of if not the best work ethics on and off the ice. He tries hard to get in on the forecheck. The main issue is that his feet aren't fully there yet. I do wonder how he'd look in a position to succeed though rather than getting being shoved down the lineup with guys like Boqvist and McLeod centering him. He's always going to fail in a situation like that.

That’s good to know! Maybe I’m wrong then. I don’t love that he has skating issues but one thing the Sharks have been pretty good at is improving the skating of their prospects.

 

[Alaskanice]

With the way that Meier is playing, I’ve decided that the Devils need to include Mercer. Him, Muk and a first. Full stop.

 

[Gecklund]

You’re underestimating Samberg , who is quite good, and overestimating McGroarty and a very late 1st. I watch a ton of Michigan and never once has McGroarty stood out. Late 1sts don’t become meaningful players about two-thirds of the time.

McGroarty to me is one of those glue guys. He’s never going to drive a line but you throw him with other good talent, he’s going to play well. Off the top of my head, Hyman is the best comparison I can give.

I’d want a better prospect than him as the center piece and I really like Samberg as the third piece. I loved Lucius pre-draft but he seems to have stalled a bit. I don’t like Lambert though.

 

[one2gamble]

Considering the scratches that have been happening lately, I don't think a trade is on the horizon though I'd prefer it. Labanc is probably getting bought out in the offseason.

That would be epically dumb since they won't need the dollars. Right now this is just bad asset management

 

[HBK27]

With the way that Meier is playing, I’ve decided that the Devils need to include Mercer. Him, Muk and a first. Full stop.

With all due respect, I think if that's the case then Fitzgerald walks away from the deal. As much as I would like the Devils to acquire Meier, I don't think they can afford to give up Mercer as part of any deal. He's already a key part of the team (5th in scoring overall) and is a versatile player that can play C/W anywhere in the lineup. One weakness of the Devils prospects is at center and on offense in general - Wheeler's released their prospect rankings and while the Devils are #2 overall, 4 of the top 5 are defensemen and they don't have a lot of high end skill players on offense in the system. Not sure how the Sharks view Holtz (who was rated #3 overall in their system, in his own tier just below Hughes/Nemec), but if they don't value him as a key component to any trade for Meier it might be tough for the two teams to work out a deal.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

That would be epically dumb since they won't need the dollars. Right now this is just bad asset management

It is if you believe they can get something for him. I don't think they can and while they don't need the dollars, there's nothing lost by buying out a player that you possibly can't get any future asset out of.

 

[Alaskanice]

With all due respect, I think if that's the case then Fitzgerald walks away from the deal. As much as I would like the Devils to acquire Meier, I don't think they can afford to give up Mercer as part of any deal. He's already a key part of the team (5th in scoring overall) and is a versatile player that can play C/W anywhere in the lineup. One weakness of the Devils prospects is at center and on offense in general - Wheeler's released their prospect rankings and while the Devils are #2 overall, 4 of the top 5 are defensemen and they don't have a lot of high end skill players on offense in the system. Not sure how the Sharks view Holtz (who was rated #3 overall in their system, in his own tier just below Hughes/Nemec), but if they don't value him as a key component to any trade for Meier it might be tough for the two teams to work out a deal.

Looking at it from our side, losing Meier is going to decimate our team. He’s that great. It will hurt to lose him. One has to give to get. If Mercer were the key guy, we’d have a hard time giving up Timo.
If you see him as that piece that will help your team in the playoffs, you have to do it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

McGroarty to me is one of those glue guys. He’s never going to drive a line but you throw him with other good talent, he’s going to play well. Off the top of my head, Hyman is the best comparison I can give.

I’d want a better prospect than him as the center piece and I really like Samberg as the third piece. I loved Lucius pre-draft but he seems to have stalled a bit. I don’t like Lambert though.

I don’t really care for anything that Winnipeg could send us. Don’t like their prospects and their picks will be late.

With all due respect, I think if that's the case then Fitzgerald walks away from the deal. As much as I would like the Devils to acquire Meier, I don't think they can afford to give up Mercer as part of any deal. He's already a key part of the team (5th in scoring overall) and is a versatile player that can play C/W anywhere in the lineup. One weakness of the Devils prospects is at center and on offense in general - Wheeler's released their prospect rankings and while the Devils are #2 overall, 4 of the top 5 are defensemen and they don't have a lot of high end skill players on offense in the system. Not sure how the Sharks view Holtz (who was rated #3 overall in their system, in his own tier just below Hughes/Nemec), but if they don't value him as a key component to any trade for Meier it might be tough for the two teams to work out a deal.

Then walk away. Meier is that good. Mercer isn’t.

 

[one2gamble]

It is if you believe they can get something for him. I don't think they can and while they don't need the dollars, there's nothing lost by buying out a player that you possibly can't get any future asset out of.

HIm riding pine isnt going to provide any clarity on whether you can or cant get anything for him.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

HIm riding pine isnt going to provide any clarity on whether you can or cant get anything for him.

No but if they already have clarity that they're not going to get anything for him then buying him out is a reasonable decision.

 

[HBK27]

Looking at it from our side, losing Meier is going to decimate our team. He’s that great. It will hurt to lose him. One has to give to get. If Mercer were the key guy, we’d have a hard time giving up Timo.
If you see him as that piece that will help your team in the playoffs, you have to do it.

Yeah, I totally get all of this. I just think that from NJ's perspective (and I could certainly be wrong) that Luke Hughes, Nemec and Mercer are non-starters for any deal. I also think that with the other assets that NJ has available that they could still offer the best package. I think Holtz might be the best prospect realistically being offered and the Devils also have a ton of depth that they could add to any deal...but that's also dependent on how San Jose views Holtz vs. other prospects.

As far as the playoffs are concerned, the Devils are just at the beginning of their window so there's not as much pressure to add to the team for this playoff run as there might be for Carolina or Toronto - both of whom have had good teams for a number of years but have not broken through with the playoff success they'd have liked. Still, I think NJ will be in on Meier right up to the end.

It's a franchise altering move for San Jose, so Grier has to get this right. I remember when the Devils were shopping Hall (who I believe was the top trade target at the time), the return seemed a bit underwhelming at first but in hindsight was pretty good (largely because the 1st rounder turned into Mercer and the 3rd rounder turned into Sigenthaler, plus Bahl could still be a solid bottom pairing defender...as per article below). No clue how this deal will turn out for the Sharks (if it even happens at all), but I suspect it may look more like a quantity vs. quality deal at first. Again, who knows though. Devils haven't been in on a top free agent at the deadline since 2010 with Kovalchuk, so this is new territory for both teams. Anyway, hope things work out well - would also love to see Bedard wind up in San Jose, but that's another story.

New Jersey Devils: Revisiting Taylor Hall Trade Two Years Later

The dust has settled and the picks that were dealt have been made. The Taylor Hall trade didn't look promising but has developed into an amazing trade.

pucksandpitchforks.com

 

[Gecklund]

I don’t really care for anything that Winnipeg could send us. Don’t like their prospects and their picks will be late.

Then walk away. Meier is that good. Mercer isn’t.

Yeah I’m in the same boat at you. I don’t think WPG can offer the best package unless it’s a three way deal where they send Dubois somewhere, Timo heads there, and sharks get futures from both teams.

 

[HBK27]

Then walk away. Meier is that good. Mercer isn’t.

Yeah, I believe the Devils would in that case. Meier is clearly the better player of the two, but you're talking 1 1/4 years of team control left on Meier (at a much higher cap hit, which he has earned) versus 6 1/4 more years for Mercer, not to mention the other assets that San Jose would get in the deal. I mean the reality of dealing away the top player at the TDL is that you most likely don't wind up with the best player in the deal, but that it should tremendously help the team in the future and better align with the team's timeline for contention.

 

[WTFetus]

It is if you believe they can get something for him. I don't think they can and while they don't need the dollars, there's nothing lost by buying out a player that you possibly can't get any future asset out of.

True, looking over his buy-out, it actually wouldn't be that bad, especially since it's not like the team will need the cap space in the 24-25 season either.

I still don't think it's necessary, but it depends on if Hasso wants to save that extra million by buying him out, or Grier wants to do right by Labanc by buying him out and making him a FA instead of just being in Quinn's doghouse for another season.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Man, looking at points in OT losses is nuts

Karlsson has 19 points in 11 OT losses.
Meier has 10 goals in 11 OT losses.

Those two are absolutely what’s causing us not to be in first(last) place.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Yeah, I believe the Devils would in that case. Meier is clearly the better player of the two, but you're talking 1 1/4 years of team control left on Meier (at a much higher cap hit, which he has earned) versus 6 1/4 more years for Mercer, not to mention the other assets that San Jose would get in the deal. I mean the reality of dealing away the top player at the TDL is that you most likely don't wind up with the best player in the deal, but that it should tremendously help the team in the future and better align with the team's timeline for contention.

What I mean is that Mercer is never going to be in the same neighborhood as what Meier is now. Don’t get me wrong, I like the player. But the odds that Mercer even ends up a legitimate top-liner are remote, let alone the star that Mercer is.

I won’t pretend to be Grier, he may be forced to take a deal worse than that, who knows. I just think that Mercer being functionally untouchable is silly given what he is.

 

[HBK27]

What I mean is that Mercer is never going to be in the same neighborhood as what Meier is now. Don’t get me wrong, I like the player. But the odds that Mercer even ends up a legitimate top-liner are remote, let alone the star that Mercer is.

I won’t pretend to be Grier, he may be forced to take a deal worse than that, who knows. I just think that Mercer being functionally untouchable is silly given what he is.

I think he could be a top liner, but more in a supporting role and he certainly won't top out to what Meier has become. Again, I'm just speculating here so maybe Fitzgerald would consider him expendable and I can see how it seems odd having Mercer on the same level as Luke Hughes and Nemec as "untouchables", but as far as where NJ is with their young forward depth (or lack thereof) it makes it very difficult to include Mercer in any deal - particularly when they have a lot of other assets to chose from. He's extremely valuable to NJ currently (particularly being in year 2 of his 3 year ELC) and a player they could bridge at a reasonable rate. If it's Mercer or no deal from San Jose's perspective, that's a tough chose for Fitz that I ultimately think he walks away from (as a 1st rounder and probably more would still be part of the deal), but who knows.

 

[Alaskanice]

I will admit that if Meier has to go, that he go to Jersey, a team I’ve liked for many years.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

True, looking over his buy-out, it actually wouldn't be that bad, especially since it's not like the team will need the cap space in the 24-25 season either.

I still don't think it's necessary, but it depends on if Hasso wants to save that extra million by buying him out, or Grier wants to do right by Labanc by buying him out and making him a FA instead of just being in Quinn's doghouse for another season.

It's not necessary but Balcers getting bought out wasn't necessary either so Grier is willing to use the option. I do think Grier would want to do the latter rather than be concerned over the money. Labanc needs to get out of here to have any chance of salvaging his career.

 

[Karl Prime]

I will admit that if Meier has to go, that he go to Jersey, a team I’ve liked for many years.

Imagine if the NHL had loans like soccer and Meier gets traded and Karlsson got loaned for the rest of the season as well. Hughes, Karlsson, Meier, Bratt, Hischier, Hamilton, Siegenthaler, Marino, Severson, Mercer, Graves, Tatar, Haula, Sharangovich ... not a bad roster to push for a Cup in the East.

In all seriousness loans would actually be quite interesting, though of course it's just a fantasy. Maybe set a 15 mil loan cap that a team can go over the salary cap, and maybe like a qualifying offer there would be different draft pick prices to loaning in different valued players. So if a team wanted to loan in Karlsson they would pay more than loaning in Couture. We see what the high-end rentals go for every season, so this would just extend the pool of players the buyers would have to choose from to improve their team for a Cup run.

 

[landshark]

I will admit that if Meier has to go, that he go to Jersey, a team I’ve liked for many years.

Speaking of that. I wonder if my Meier jersey ship before GMMG ships Meier to Jersey. Ordered like 2 months ago.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

Had to make an account just to comment on the Timo rumors. Am I overvaluing him or something? He's a dominant power forward (there's probably less than 3 others in the league) on a VERY bad team. Imagine what he could do on a good team.

Trade talk with NJ should start with a Bratt + 1st + a prospect IF Meier plans to re-sign there. He's MAYYYBE a step below Tkachuk, and we saw what Tkachuk returned. I'm just mind blown at all you other Sharks fans being happy losing Timo for a probably a 24-28 pick, a B-tier defensemen prospect, and a cap dump. Rebuild or not, if that's the return the Sharks get for a player like Timo, the rebuild will be MUCH longer than we expect.