Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[Pavelski2112]

Had to make an account just to comment on the Timo rumors. Am I overvaluing him or something? He's a dominant power forward (there's probably less than 3 others in the league) on a VERY bad team. Imagine what he could do on a good team.

Trade talk with NJ should start with a Bratt + 1st + a prospect IF Meier plans to re-sign there. He's MAYYYBE a step below Tkachuk, and we saw what Tkachuk returned. I'm just mind blown at all you other Sharks fans being happy losing Timo for a probably a 24-28 pick, a B-tier defensemen prospect, and a cap dump. Rebuild or not, if that's the return the Sharks get for a player like Timo, the rebuild will be MUCH longer than we expect.

NJ isn't gonna add Bratt, that would be counter-intuitive for them. They're trying to add for a Cup run, not just an upgrade at wing. Futures would be better for us either way, since Bratt will probably be heading out of his prime by the time we start competing again.

In these situations, the team giving up the best player usually loses. That's just kinda the nature of having to ship off core pieces. It's just about seeing what the Sharks can get at all for him right now.

 

[hohosaregood]

Had to make an account just to comment on the Timo rumors. Am I overvaluing him or something? He's a dominant power forward (there's probably less than 3 others in the league) on a VERY bad team. Imagine what he could do on a good team.

Trade talk with NJ should start with a Bratt + 1st + a prospect IF Meier plans to re-sign there. He's MAYYYBE a step below Tkachuk, and we saw what Tkachuk returned. I'm just mind blown at all you other Sharks fans being happy losing Timo for a probably a 24-28 pick, a B-tier defensemen prospect, and a cap dump. Rebuild or not, if that's the return the Sharks get for a player like Timo, the rebuild will be MUCH longer than we expect.

Bratt's only like a half-tier below Timo really and that's just because of the physicality. He's a dynamic PPG scoring winger that drives play. It wouldn't make sense for NJ to trade Bratt AND add all of that stuff. I don't think people are that excited about NJ as a trade partner these days just because their prospects outside of Hughes and Nemec are not particularly exciting to be targets for Meier. Not to mention, the late 1st round pick.

 

[sharski]

Had to make an account just to comment on the Timo rumors. Am I overvaluing him or something? He's a dominant power forward (there's probably less than 3 others in the league) on a VERY bad team. Imagine what he could do on a good team.

Trade talk with NJ should start with a Bratt + 1st + a prospect IF Meier plans to re-sign there. He's MAYYYBE a step below Tkachuk, and we saw what Tkachuk returned. I'm just mind blown at all you other Sharks fans being happy losing Timo for a probably a 24-28 pick, a B-tier defensemen prospect, and a cap dump. Rebuild or not, if that's the return the Sharks get for a player like Timo, the rebuild will be MUCH longer than we expect.

Claude Lemieux burner account exposed

 

[Karl Prime]

I have to think at this point Grier is heavily leaning towards a trade with a Meier extension planned. That way it's easier to negotiate getting Nemec, or an extra piece if the original offer is Holtz, 1st, prospect - or the equivalent from other teams.

 

[PacificOceanPotion]

*MG on line 1 with the Devils*
“Okay..That’s a strong offer…buuuut I’ve got Winnipeg on line 2 and..pfft… you should see what they’re offering”

 

[LadyStanley]

Speaking of that. I wonder if my Meier jersey ship before GMMG ships Meier to Jersey. Ordered like 2 months ago.

Ordered some 11/16. Just got shipping notice.


Negative value, Sharks would have to retain.

 

[Gecklund]

Had to make an account just to comment on the Timo rumors. Am I overvaluing him or something? He's a dominant power forward (there's probably less than 3 others in the league) on a VERY bad team. Imagine what he could do on a good team.

Trade talk with NJ should start with a Bratt + 1st + a prospect IF Meier plans to re-sign there. He's MAYYYBE a step below Tkachuk, and we saw what Tkachuk returned. I'm just mind blown at all you other Sharks fans being happy losing Timo for a probably a 24-28 pick, a B-tier defensemen prospect, and a cap dump. Rebuild or not, if that's the return the Sharks get for a player like Timo, the rebuild will be MUCH longer than we expect.

Definitely overvaluing him or undervaluing Devils players.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Had to make an account just to comment on the Timo rumors. Am I overvaluing him or something? He's a dominant power forward (there's probably less than 3 others in the league) on a VERY bad team. Imagine what he could do on a good team.

Trade talk with NJ should start with a Bratt + 1st + a prospect IF Meier plans to re-sign there. He's MAYYYBE a step below Tkachuk, and we saw what Tkachuk returned. I'm just mind blown at all you other Sharks fans being happy losing Timo for a probably a 24-28 pick, a B-tier defensemen prospect, and a cap dump. Rebuild or not, if that's the return the Sharks get for a player like Timo, the rebuild will be MUCH longer than we expect.

People here should expect an eight to ten year or more rebuild timeline so yeah.

 

[Levie]

Ordered some 11/16. Just got shipping notice.


Negative value, Sharks would have to retain.

I would firmly be in the fire grier camp if they give up anything to get rid of Lebanc. Just let him play out his contract and help us tank.

 

[tiburon12]

Negative value, Sharks would have to retain.

No surprise

Despite being a major proponent of Grier and Quinn's plan to revamp the team culture and ethos, this is unfortunately what happens when you repetitively scratch a known-name player. It's not hard to dot the I's here and deduce why Labanc is getting scratched, and that's an unattractive look for him as an available player.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

People here should expect an eight to ten year or more rebuild timeline so yeah.

8-10 years if done improperly or just bad draft luck.

Could be 3-4 years pretty easily with the right moves and some draft luck. Talking about not being terrible, not being a powerhouse.

 

[Grinner]

8-10 years if done improperly or just bad draft luck.

Could be 3-4 years pretty easily with the right moves and some draft luck. Talking about not being terrible, not being a powerhouse.

Oh! How long did it take MacKinnon? How much longer for a Mathews and McDavid. No, 3-4 years is not doable

 

[Pinkfloyd]

8-10 years if done improperly or just bad draft luck.

Could be 3-4 years pretty easily with the right moves and some draft luck. Talking about not being terrible, not being a powerhouse.

I disagree. 8-10 is a fairly conservative timeline given their position now, contracts to move or ride out, and prospect pool. They maybe have one future core piece in Eklund and aren’t guaranteed one outside the top four in this draft. Moving Meier probably won’t get them one either and if they don’t move Karlsson, they won’t be bad enough to get that sort of talent and can be stuck in this bad but not bad enough level that doesn’t get them anything to build around.

 

[TheBeard]

No surprise

Despite being a major proponent of Grier and Quinn's plan to revamp the team culture and ethos, this is unfortunately what happens when you repetitively scratch a known-name player. It's not hard to dot the I's here and deduce why Labanc is getting scratched, and that's an unattractive look for him as an available player.

Labanc has two years to get his shit together and if he does, say, in the last year of his deal, he suddenly becomes a very attractive deadline piece. If not, then it’s not like it hurts the team.

 

[Lebanezer]

Had to make an account just to comment on the Timo rumors. Am I overvaluing him or something? He's a dominant power forward (there's probably less than 3 others in the league) on a VERY bad team. Imagine what he could do on a good team.

Trade talk with NJ should start with a Bratt + 1st + a prospect IF Meier plans to re-sign there. He's MAYYYBE a step below Tkachuk, and we saw what Tkachuk returned. I'm just mind blown at all you other Sharks fans being happy losing Timo for a probably a 24-28 pick, a B-tier defensemen prospect, and a cap dump. Rebuild or not, if that's the return the Sharks get for a player like Timo, the rebuild will be MUCH longer than we expect.

I understand where you’re coming from here, but Bratt shouldn’t be the target. It should be Luke Hughes or Nemec, along with a 1st. I know Devils fans don’t want to make that deal, and rightly so, but for the sake of the Sharks rebuild, you can’t aim much lower than that. If the Devils won’t make that deal, then the Sharks should look elsewhere. Find a team willing to pay their price.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Oh! How long did it take MacKinnon? How much longer for a Mathews and McDavid. No, 3-4 years is not doable

The Avs starting making the playoffs in Mackinnons 5th year.

Oilers in McDavids 2nd year, then became a regular in his 5th year.

Toronto has made the playoffs every year since Matthews joined the team.

Please tell me how 3-4 years to be a playoff contender isn’t doable with the right moves? Especially with your own examples.

 

[Grinner]

The Avs starting making the playoffs in Mackinnons 5th year.

Oilers in McDavids 2nd year, then became a regular in his 5th year.

Toronto has made the playoffs every year since Matthews joined the team.

Please tell me how 3-4 years to be a playoff contender isn’t doable with the right moves? Especially with your own examples.

Not just making the play offs. Winning a cup

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

I disagree. 8-10 is a fairly conservative timeline given their position now, contracts to move or ride out, and prospect pool. They maybe have one future core piece in Eklund and aren’t guaranteed one outside the top four in this draft. Moving Meier probably won’t get them one either and if they don’t move Karlsson, they won’t be bad enough to get that sort of talent and can be stuck in this bad but not bad enough level that doesn’t get them anything to build around.

I don’t see it with the right moves. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it should only take that long if bad picks/trades are made.

It would be absolutely shocking if there wasn’t at least two middle six/middle pairing or higher guys from moving Timo and Karlsson.

Luck out and get one of the top 4 picks this year for a top line player.

Get another lottery pick next year.

Probably get 1-2 more middle six/middle pairing guys with rounds 2-7 the next two years.

Bystedt, Eklund, and Bordeleau are all tracking to be middle 6 guys.

Use all the cap space to fill in the blanks.

If all that happens, they should be a playoff contender in 3-4 years.

Not just making the play offs. Winning a cup

I’m assuming you missed the part where I said “Talking about not being terrible, not being a powerhouse.”?

 

[Juxtaposer]

I don’t see it with the right moves. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it should only take that long if bad picks/trades are made.

It would be absolutely shocking if there wasn’t at least two middle six/middle pairing or higher guys from moving Timo and Karlsson.

Luck out and get one of the top 4 picks this year for a top line player.

Get another lottery pick next year.

Probably get 1-2 more middle six/middle pairing guys with rounds 2-7 the next two years.

Bystedt, Eklund, and Bordeleau are all tracking to be middle 6 guys.

Use all the cap space to fill in the blanks.

If all that happens, they should be a playoff contender in 3-4 years.


I’m assuming you missed the part where I said “Talking about not being terrible, not being a powerhouse.”?

If you’re brutal for 3-4 years and all you get out of it is “playoff contender”, I don’t want it. You can easily become a playoff contender year to year with decent trading, but if you’re satisfied with a team that is “not terrible” and “contends for the playoffs”, I’m sorry I but I just don’t get it. I want to build a team that will win a Stanley Cup. I don’t want to be a perpetual 8th seed, first round loser.

Even your scenario requires lottery luck. What if we drop to 9th overall this season and end up with Oliver Moore? What if we don’t get a top-5 pick next season? I don’t want to be Calgary or Minnesota.

 

[Sharkz4Fun]

I understand where you’re coming from here, but Bratt shouldn’t be the target. It should be Luke Hughes or Nemec, along with a 1st. I know Devils fans don’t want to make that deal, and rightly so, but for the sake of the Sharks rebuild, you can’t aim much lower than that. If the Devils won’t make that deal, then the Sharks should look elsewhere. Find a team willing to pay their price.

I agree he shouldn't be the main target, but I realized later I should've capitalized the A in the +. I think Nemec or Hughes would be much better than any forwards or goalie prospects of theirs, but fair value to me for Timo, again, if he re-signs, is Bratt + 1st + Nemec or Hughes. Meier is a far better player overall than Bratt and that would almost mirror the tkachuk trade (which it should). Bratt probably can't stay in NJ and SJ could deal him if they needed to. If they need to add Gregor/Reimer or someone else, maybe like Chmelevski, then that's fine, but if that's not on the table I'd do what I could if I were Grier to keep Meier instead and work fully towards moving Karlsson. If his salary is gone, MEV gets bought out, and Meier is locked up, that should be the ideal path forward.

Sharks can easily rebuild in 5 years if they keep Meier, or, hopefully, get a Bratt + Hughes or Nemec deal. It will absolutely be 8-10 if they get like a 1st, Sharangovich, and Schmid. Timo Meier is what you hope any pick after #3 becomes, and hoping the Sharks are bad enough in the future without him is just silly.

EDIT: Or Mercer. But they need Bratt or Mercer + Hughes or Nemec in a Meier deal or else they get absolutely fleeced.

 

[Karl Prime]

As much fun as it is to dream about Luke Hughes or Nemec, I'm sure they are absolutely off limits for NJ. They already have their forward group set, especially if they add Timo, and both guys will be keys to any future success. They could be their top D pair in 2-3 years.

It won't be 8-10 years for the rebuild to be over if it's done well, but that would be when they are looking to go for it. They will probably make the playoffs before 2031. They'll have a new core formed in 4-5 years with Eklund, Bordeleau, Bystedt, 1st in 23, what they get for Timo and Erik, probably high 1st in 24 (certainly if both are gone), maybe even high 1st in 25, and any other guys that hit like Laroque or Havelid (with the state of the D in system, hopefully they do particularly). And obviously you can find your best players outside of a top 4 pick (Meier, Hertl, Karlsson, MacAvoy, Norris, Batherson, Stone, Kucherov, Point, Zibanejad, Fox, need I say more?). Everyone wants Bedard, Carlsson, or Fantilli, but Benson or Smith could turn into bonafide top liners too.

Keep in mind I consider a core more than just the 3-4 best players, I expand it to great 3rd liners and 2nd pair D - basically anyone that's locked up long term in your "winning" window, which is usually 5-7 F and 4 D. For example with Tampa it was Kucherov, Hedman, Stamkos, Point, Sergachev, Vasilevskiy, McDonaugh, Killorn, Palat, Cernak, and Cirelli.

 

[tiburon12]

The Avs starting making the playoffs in Mackinnons 5th year.

Oilers in McDavids 2nd year, then became a regular in his 5th year.

Toronto has made the playoffs every year since Matthews joined the team.

Please tell me how 3-4 years to be a playoff contender isn’t doable with the right moves? Especially with your own examples.

Those teams had foundations in place before they got their #1 picks.

Oilers had Nuge, Draisaitl, Nurse, Klefbomb and Hall in the system and/or regularly contributing

Toronto had Marner, Nylander, Reilly, and they traded for Andersen around the Matthews draft

The Avs had Landeskog, Duchene, Oreilly, Barrie

Same goes for the Hawks (had Keith, Seabrook, Toews, Byfuglien before Kane) and the Pens (had Malkin, Letang, and Fluery before Crosby).

We have Eklund, maybe Bordeleau, maybe Havelid, and maybe a goalie prospect to build around whatever top pick we get this year.

I think if we trade Meier and get a blue chip D prospect and hit a few homeruns with whatever picks we have this year, then maybe this team could sniff the playoffs (as the first step towards contending) in 3-4 years, but I just don't see it

 

[OrrNumber4]

If it mollifies people, if the Sharks trade Meier there will be a hidden return coming back, in the form of better draft picks for ~3-4 years...

 

[Eggdoh]

If you’re brutal for 3-4 years and all you get out of it is “playoff contender”, I don’t want it. You can easily become a playoff contender year to year with decent trading, but if you’re satisfied with a team that is “not terrible” and “contends for the playoffs”, I’m sorry I but I just don’t get it. I want to build a team that will win a Stanley Cup. I don’t want to be a perpetual 8th seed, first round loser.

Even your scenario requires lottery luck. What if we drop to 9th overall this season and end up with Oliver Moore? What if we don’t get a top-5 pick next season? I don’t want to be Calgary or Minnesota.

I get what you're saying, but despite the Wild being mocked mercilessily for years for finishing just out of the playoffs and getting shitty draft picks, their prospect pool is actually fantastic right now.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think Meier's realistic price is a blue chip defensemen + 1 round pick, because Timo Meier caliber player is almost never in a trade block and that brings value to him. MG should really really make the price as high as he can. I just really hope he goes for a blue chip defensemen rather than a forward. Some of you have proposed Hughes + 1st round pick from NJ, I think it's perfect value, since they have Nemec in a system already.