Speculation: 2022-23 Sharks Roster Discussion Part II

[PacificOceanPotion]

2023 First-round pick, 2024 First-round pick Vitali Kravtsov, Brennan Othmann, and Matthew Robertson for Timo Meier

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don’t see it with the right moves. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it should only take that long if bad picks/trades are made.

It would be absolutely shocking if there wasn’t at least two middle six/middle pairing or higher guys from moving Timo and Karlsson.

Luck out and get one of the top 4 picks this year for a top line player.

Get another lottery pick next year.

Probably get 1-2 more middle six/middle pairing guys with rounds 2-7 the next two years.

Bystedt, Eklund, and Bordeleau are all tracking to be middle 6 guys.

Use all the cap space to fill in the blanks.

If all that happens, they should be a playoff contender in 3-4 years.


I’m assuming you missed the part where I said “Talking about not being terrible, not being a powerhouse.”?

Middle of the lineup players aren’t going to move the needle and you have to account for draft odds to some degree. A big reason why Edmonton has issues even with getting McDavid and Draisaitl is that they didn’t get much luck beyond them including high first round picks and we’re not exactly stellar with our recent track record either.

Competing is only going to happen if we either find foundational pieces through the draft and build around them or fill the entire lineup with second level pieces. Both are difficult and require a practically clean cap sheet. Something we’re at least another three seasons away from if not more depending on how Karlsson, Hertl, and Couture play out.

I simply don’t know how we’re going to do with what Grier has around him when it comes to doing that or if he’ll even get that sort of time to build but a three to four year timeline when there’s almost no ingredients already in the fold seems too optimistic to me but I hope you’re right.

Meier’s trade may provide one of those types of players but we’re talking about getting that in four years if we’re lucky. Four years to get one middle of the lineup player just isn’t much to change their competitive fortunes.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I get what you're saying, but despite the Wild being mocked mercilessily for years for finishing just out of the playoffs and getting shitty draft picks, their prospect pool is actually fantastic right now.

Is there a #1C or a #1D in that prospect pool? If not, I will continue to never take the Wild seriously.

 

[Grinner]

I don’t see it with the right moves. Not saying it couldn’t happen, but it should only take that long if bad picks/trades are made.

It would be absolutely shocking if there wasn’t at least two middle six/middle pairing or higher guys from moving Timo and Karlsson.

Luck out and get one of the top 4 picks this year for a top line player.

Get another lottery pick next year.

Probably get 1-2 more middle six/middle pairing guys with rounds 2-7 the next two years.

Bystedt, Eklund, and Bordeleau are all tracking to be middle 6 guys.

Use all the cap space to fill in the blanks.

If all that happens, they should be a playoff contender in 3-4 years.


I’m assuming you missed the part where I said “Talking about not being terrible, not being a powerhouse.”?

Yes because that's not the purpose of a re-build.
At one point we led the league in 1 goal losses. Not having a terrible record isn't all that far away. If that's all there is to it

 

[Stewie Griffin]

2023 First-round pick, 2024 First-round pick Vitali Kravtsov, Brennan Othmann, and Matthew Robertson for Timo Meier

Yeah no way that happens...Meier would return maybe half of that package realistically.

 

[themelkman]

2023 First-round pick, 2024 First-round pick Vitali Kravtsov, Brennan Othmann, and Matthew Robertson for Timo Meier

I dont like Quantity for quality, but that isnt bad. Would try for the two 2023 firsts

 

[Eggdoh]

Is there a #1C or a #1D in that prospect pool? If not, I will continue to never take the Wild seriously.

I don't know about #1C or #1D, but Wheeler wrote that they "have a top prospect at each of the 6 different positions." It doesn't seem like Rossi is a #1C, but he at least seems like a top6 C, and Faber and Lambos seem like two pretty good shots at top 4D. To set them aside from the Sharks even more, Wallstedt is looking awesome. I sure wish we had a young goalie that looked like he might solve our goaltending problems for the next 10+ years.

 

[Grinner]

2023 First-round pick, 2024 First-round pick Vitali Kravtsov, Brennan Othmann, and Matthew Robertson for Timo Meier

Drop Kravtsov for Cuylle
Don't know much about Robertson to comment

 

[Gecklund]

The Avs starting making the playoffs in Mackinnons 5th year.

Oilers in McDavids 2nd year, then became a regular in his 5th year.

Toronto has made the playoffs every year since Matthews joined the team.

Please tell me how 3-4 years to be a playoff contender isn’t doable with the right moves? Especially with your own examples.

Because we don’t have anyone near McDavid, MacKinnon, or Matthews level

 

[Stewie Griffin]

The Avs starting making the playoffs in Mackinnons 5th year.

Oilers in McDavids 2nd year, then became a regular in his 5th year.

Toronto has made the playoffs every year since Matthews joined the team.

Please tell me how 3-4 years to be a playoff contender isn’t doable with the right moves? Especially with your own examples.

Let's assume Eklund is our Landeskog level player. We still have yet to draft a Mackinnon, Rantanen, Makar, etc.

McDavid is an EXTREME example. Not only is he the best hockey player on the planet, but they also drafted 1st overall 3 times before that, and the year before got another top player in the world in Draisaitl.

Matthews, joined a team that had drafted Reilly in the top-5 4 years before that, and other top-10 picks in Nylander and Marner. Not to mention signed Tavares to speed up the process, and traded for a star goalie at the time in Andersen.

This team will miss the playoffs for the next 4+ years. Our only prospect with hope of being in a playoff-caliber core is Eklund. We are currently icing a roster with none of our prospects we plan on building around, and our division is also not old. The Ducks will be coming out of a rebuild soon, with the Oilers, Kraken, and Kings having solid teams for the next handful of years.

Even if we luck out with Bedard this year, he'll be playing with Alex Barabanov next year. Once Meier and/or Karlsson are gone, we have no star talents to carry a team.

 

[LadyStanley]

 

[Jargon]

Kevin Weekes suggests that Vegas is in on Meier (and that the Sharks have “a lot of good options”). I’m not sure I can stomach that but don’t know their prospect pool.

 

[themelkman]

Kevin Weekes suggests that Vegas is in on Meier (and that the Sharks have “a lot of good options”). I’m not sure I can stomach that but don’t know their prospect pool.

Brisson has good chemistry with Bordeleau. Id be looking at him and two firsts probably

 

[Alaskanice]

Kevin Weekes suggests that Vegas is in on Meier (and that the Sharks have “a lot of good options”). I’m not sure I can stomach that but don’t know their prospect pool.

Vegas can’t do this because of cap constraints. They have a bunch of players on LTIR.

 

[Cas]

Vegas can’t do this because of cap constraints. They have a bunch of players on LTIR.

Yeah, they'd have to send cap dumps the other way, but they don't have a lot of good options, because everyone is either too long-term or a key player on their team now.

I guess they could send Adin Hill...

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Vegas has Brisson and Dean as their only notable prospects. I don't like either, they'd pretty much be the same level as most of the guys on the Cuda. Combine that with their first being late, and our biggest rival, this would be a terrible trade partner.

 

[Alaskanice]

Yeah, they'd have to send cap dumps the other way, but they don't have a lot of good options, because everyone is either too long-term or a key player on their team now.

I guess they could send Adin Hill...

That is sick. So is the idea that Timo would wear that god-awful gold helmet.

 

[Lebanezer]

Brisson has good chemistry with Bordeleau. Id be looking at him and two firsts probably

Vegas isn’t a good fit. Their prospect pool is bad. Don’t want to trade Meier for 2 mid to late firsts and a B prospect.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Because we don’t have anyone near McDavid, MacKinnon, or Matthews level

A lot can happen in 3-4 years, including drafting a player of that caliber.

If there is no additions to the team/prospect pool in the next 3-4 years, yea, the team will be the worst team in the league. But, that’s pretty doom and gloom to think 2-4 lottery picks + whatever EK65, Timo, and the other vets return in picks and prospects won’t have a decent chance of returning core pieces.

 

[Gecklund]

A lot can happen in 3-4 years, including drafting a player of that caliber.

If there is no additions to the team/prospect pool in the next 3-4 years, yea, the team will be the worst team in the league. But, that’s pretty doom and gloom to think 2-4 lottery picks + whatever EK65, Timo, and the other vets return in picks and prospects won’t have a decent chance of returning core pieces.

Okay but as said it took all those guys a few years to break into the league. Colorado and Toronto also had a much better supporting cast that we don’t have. So even if we get Bedard this year, we likely will be following the McDavid path of at least 5 years before we are back in the playoffs.

 

[themelkman]

Vegas isn’t a good fit. Their prospect pool is bad. Don’t want to trade Meier for 2 mid to late firsts and a B prospect.

I agree, but who knows what other teams are actually offering

 

[Kcoyote3]

Considering the report earlier that they may be looking for G prospects, Carl Lindbom is pretty good from VGK. Would have to be Lindbom, Brisson, Dean, Hague, 2023 1st or something.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Okay but as said it took all those guys a few years to break into the league. Colorado and Toronto also had a much better supporting cast that we don’t have. So even if we get Bedard this year, we likely will be following the McDavid path of at least 5 years before we are back in the playoffs.

Let’s say we get 3rd OV this year. Draft Carlsson.

Timo goes for Holtz + late 1st + Casey.
Karlsson goes for a similar package.
Couture returns a late first.
Barabanov fetches a 2nd.
Ferraro fetches a 2nd.
We finish Last-3rd the next 3 years.

That leaves us with the following:
Carlsson
Eklund
Holtz
Bordeleu
Byfield
Casey
Whatever prospect Karlsson returns
2024 1-3OA
2024 31-34th OA
2024 Late first from NJ
2024 Late first from EK65 trade
2025 1-3OA
2025 1st from Couture trade
2025 31-34OA
2025 2nd from Barabanov trade
2026 1-3OA
2026 31-34OA
2026 2nd from Ferraro trade

Not to mention the 40+ mil in cap space as Hertl will be the only expensive contract.

That’s enough to build a solid core and maybe challenge for a wild card spot in 2027 as long as Grier doesn’t shit the bed with drafting.

 

[Gecklund]

Let’s say we get 3rd OV this year. Draft Carlsson.

Timo goes for Holtz + late 1st + Casey.
Karlsson goes for a similar package.
Couture returns a late first.
Barabanov fetches a 2nd.
Ferraro fetches a 2nd.
We finish Last-3rd the next 3 years.

That leaves us with the following:
Carlsson
Eklund
Holtz
Bordeleu
Byfield
Casey
Whatever prospect Karlsson returns
2024 1-3OA
2024 31-34th OA
2024 Late first from NJ
2024 Late first from EK65 trade
2025 1-3OA
2025 1st from Couture trade
2025 31-34OA
2025 2nd from Barabanov trade
2026 1-3OA
2026 31-34OA
2026 2nd from Ferraro trade

Not to mention the 40+ mil in cap space as Hertl will be the only expensive contract.

That’s enough to build a solid core and maybe challenge for a wild card spot in 2027 as long as Grier doesn’t shit the bed with drafting.

Okay and? Thats assuming none of those guys bust and those trades are pretty high.

Timo isn’t returning Casey with Holtz.
Karlsson probably isn’t returning that much.
Couture definitely isn’t returning that much.
Ferraro sure as hell isn’t returning that much.

How the hell are we getting Byfield? Only way we are guaranteed a top 3 pick is by finishing last. Think you meant Bystedt now that I’m rereading it.

Also no that’s not enough to build a core for 2027 because all of those guys are going to take time to develop.

If everyone reaches their realistic max potential:

xxx-Carlsson-xxx
Eklund-xxx-Holtz
xxx-Bystedt-Bordeleau

xxx-xxx
xxx-Casey
xxx-Laroque

no goalies

So basically we have to hope to get 2 top line wingers, a 2C, a top pair, and a second pair D, AND hope that all those guys actually hit their potential. That’s way too much to hope for.

 

[TheWayToRefJose]

Okay and? Thats assuming none of those guys bust and those trades are pretty high.

Timo isn’t returning Casey with Holtz.
Karlsson probably isn’t returning that much.
Couture definitely isn’t returning that much.
Ferraro sure as hell isn’t returning that much.

How the hell are we getting Byfield? Only way we are guaranteed a top 3 pick is by finishing last.

Also no that’s not enough to build a core for 2027 because all of those guys are going to take time to develop.

With that many picks/prospects, it’s okay if some bust or only become 3rd liners. If only 30% hit, that should still be 3 top liners/top pairing D man and 4-5 middle 6/middle pairing guys. Fill in the gaps with the absurd amounts of cap space.

NJ fans are on board with the Meier return.

Karlsson can absolutely return that much
with enough retention, which won’t be an issue during a 4 year rebuild.

Shengs sources already suggested Couture has more value than you’d think, especially with rentention. See Karlsson.

Ferraro could absolutely return a 2nd. Look at Mueller, who was worse.

Sorry, meant Bysteadt.

It’s not the pipe dream you’re making it out to be where everything has to end up being the best case scenario, it just can’t be the worst case scenario.