2022/23 Roster Thread XX: Heading into the Homestretch

[deadhead]

Anyone have a mock roster for next year? Feel free to put X instead of a name if you think they will fill it externally

Farabee - Couts - Atkinson
Tippett - Frost - Foerster
X - Cates - Brink
Deslauriers - Desnoyers - Allison
Lycksell???

York - X
Sanheim - Risto
Seeler/Zamula/Ginning - Attard

Hart - Ersson

Think they'll trade Provorov, TK, Hayes and Laughton. TDA isn't returning, something happened that was more than a bad game.
They'll pick up a veteran RHD at low cost, add 2-3 prospects and 2-3 1st rd picks.
One prospect may be a LW to fill that hole on the 3rd line.

Andrae will be up by January, Gauthier will join the team in late March.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I think Angelo is gone, even if it’s a buyout.

TK - Coots - Tipp
Farabee - Frost - Cam
Laughton - Cates - Foerster
Deslauriers - x - Allison

Sanheim - Risto
Seeler - York
Zamula - x

Anything you would change?

 

[FLYguy3911]

I don’t trust them to evaluate with a larger pool of potential players. Being in a top 4 for example, we know kind of where they are going to go.

I trust external scouts a hell of a lot more than the Flyers crew.

I think there are organizations that can operate with a trade down approach - but not the Flyers. There is a reason this team can’t find more than one superstar in 20 years. They need the high picks imo.

The scouting talent isn’t there.

This sounds more like a personal gripe with the organization than anything. You aren't going to get it right over the long term with fewer picks. Consensus is great when it's right in hindsight. In 2017, consensus said Patrick was the right pick. Gauthier was the consensus 5th guy last year. I think it's OK to not want to stray too far from consensus early, but NHL Draft consensus is just a bunch of Bob McKenzie's scouting buddies' opinions. Of course I'd rather have the 3rd pick than just the 7th pick, but that's not what anyone is arguing against.

And none of this really matters if they don't have forward thinking minds from management on down to the coach.

 

[FlyerNutter]

This sounds more like a personal gripe with the organization than anything. You aren't going to get it right over the long term with fewer picks. Consensus is great when it's right in hindsight. In 2017, consensus said Patrick was the right pick. Gauthier was the consensus 5th guy last year. I think it's OK to not want to stray too far from consensus early, but NHL Draft consensus is just a bunch of Bob McKenzie's scouting buddies' opinions. Of course I'd rather have the 3rd pick than just the 7th pick, but that's not what anyone is arguing against.

And none of this really matters if they don't have forward thinking minds from management on down to the coach.

Nothing to do with a personal qripe, more of one where I think the smartest path forward is taking the draft out of the Flyers hands as much as possible.

Teams can overcome a lot of organization mistakes, if they have the player talent base to do so. The Flyers are not a team that can afford themselves the luxury of trying to win in the minutia - as they simply wont be able to do so.

I am not necessarily trying to argue against the concept of trading down, but where the team currently lies I would give up assets to try to move up to fill that elite talent hole. I don't think they can do so outside of the likely slam dunk picks. Talent does indeed lie elsewhere, but drafting is not a strong suit here.

They continue to show a lack of commitment to doing what it takes to build a core that can compete, and outplay its counterparts. Trading up is the first positive thing I've heard in a while, although I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Nothing to do with a personal qripe, more of one where I think the smartest path forward is taking the draft out of the Flyers hands as much as possible.

Teams can overcome a lot of organization mistakes, if they have the player talent base to do so. The Flyers are not a team that can afford themselves the luxury of trying to win in the minutia - as they simply wont be able to do so.

I am not necessarily trying to argue against the concept of trading down, but where the team currently lies I would give up assets to try to move up to fill that elite talent hole. I don't think they can do so outside of the likely slam dunk picks. Talent does indeed lie elsewhere, but drafting is not a strong suit here.

They continue to show a lack of commitment to doing what it takes to build a core that can compete, and outplay its counterparts. Trading up is the first positive thing I've heard in a while, although I'll believe it when I see it.

Ignoring their scouts to take the alleged "consensus" #2 in Nolan Patrick was the biggest mistake this franchise has made in years, and they're paying for it dearly.

So I really don't support that they rely on an alleged "consensus" instead of doing their own work.

Granted, the JOB pick was way outside the consensus, and ended up a bust, but that was a Hextall/Pryor pick.

I actually think their drafting under Flahr is going to end up looking pretty good. But admittedly still to be determined.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Drafting in hindsight is always easy. If Flyers passed on Patrick, and the player they selected busted while Patrick lived up to the potential, everyone would be calling for the GM’s head. Who knows how another player would have done in the Flyers’ system. I remember most were excited when we got Nolan. It’s nice that a lot of scouting info is available to the public but the flip side is that I’m sure it pigeonholes GM’s to some extent. Going wildly off the consensus in the top few picks is a GM putting his neck on the line

 

[TCTC]

It would be smart to trade Konecny because I think he's peaked this year. He's still in his prime, he's underpaid - his value will never be higher.
Konecny and Laughton are my two favorite players on the team right now, but they're also probably the two most valuable assets we have.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Ignoring their scouts to take the alleged "consensus" #2 in Nolan Patrick was the biggest mistake this franchise has made in years, and they're paying for it dearly.

So I really don't support that they rely on an alleged "consensus" instead of doing their own work.

Granted, the JOB pick was way outside the consensus, and ended up a bust, but that was a Hextall/Pryor pick.

I actually think their drafting under Flahr is going to end up looking pretty good. But admittedly still to be determined.

They cant let what happened with Patrick haunt them forever. Were the player more healthy, who knows what happens.

There is a risk with going with consensus, but I trust that a lot more than the Flyers scouting staff. This is a department that has flown under the radar for years, with what to show for it? A bunch of frankly at best, average slop when compared to the rest of the league.

Briere needs to trust the assessments of external sources just as much as the own Flyer team. This scouting department is one of the biggest issues with the team, and I would be very weary over relying on their assessments.

The Flyers are not a team that infuses a lot of talent into the league, especially talent is above mediocrity. It's just more evident when the team has run out of the ability to trade or buy their way to mask the issue.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[DancingPanther]

It would be smart to trade Konecny because I think he's peaked this year. He's still in his prime, he's underpaid - his value will never be higher.
Konecny and Laughton are my two favorite players on the team right now, but they're also probably the two most valuable assets we have.

It'd be smart to trade every one of these f***ing dummies. The play is for 2028 at least. No one on the team except maybe Frost lines up with that timeline

 

[BiggE]

The Sanheim and Frost benching they say wasn’t explained. And shocking how they all claim he doesn’t talk to them. This prick was all about my players know where they stand all the time.

Very clear most don’t believe in his system as well

This team will not improve until this arrogant piece of shit is gone. The other massive overhaul needs to be the player development dept. The Flyers developmental staff makes the crew that developed New Coke look good.

 

[BiggE]

It'd be smart to trade every one of these f***ing dummies. The play is for 2028 at least. No one on the team except maybe Frost lines up with that timeline

I’d add York to that short list.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ignoring their scouts to take the alleged "consensus" #2 in Nolan Patrick was the biggest mistake this franchise has made in years, and they're paying for it dearly.

So I really don't support that they rely on an alleged "consensus" instead of doing their own work.

Granted, the JOB pick was way outside the consensus, and ended up a bust, but that was a Hextall/Pryor pick.

I actually think their drafting under Flahr is going to end up looking pretty good. But admittedly still to be determined.

You're using hindsight. It was a pick you vigorously agreed with at the time. It's not even as big an error as the Ristolainen debacle.

 

[3mFlyers]

I am so sick of the coaches always being blamed. I think it is safe to say the Flyers need talent. New scouts need to be brought in and told what skills the Flyers are looking for. Draft off that. Screw the “consensus” and hockey media.

 

[Flyer lurker]

TK - Coots - Tipp
Farabee - Frost - Cam
Laughton - Cates - Foerster
Deslauriers - x - Allison

Sanheim - Risto
Seeler - York
Zamula - x

Anything you would change?

Laughton's value will never be higher so if you have flyers 2 years away(generous) that makes him 31 when better. I trade Laughton.

The rest is pretty close to spot on. Although I think I would make the x next to York and acquire a vet d-man. We have messed around with Provorov's development with the 47 snow angel and Braun and ADA of the world. Maybe this time Flyers don't screw it up.

Overall very good

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It would be smart to trade Konecny because I think he's peaked this year. He's still in his prime, he's underpaid - his value will never be higher.
Konecny and Laughton are my two favorite players on the team right now, but they're also probably the two most valuable assets we have.

Trading TK would hurt but I understand why they would do it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're using hindsight. It was a pick you vigorously agreed with at the time. It's not even as big an error as the Ristolainen debacle.

The scouts recommended Heiskanen and Makar over Patrick.

Hextall overruled them.

There were questions about Patrick before the draft that I was not privy to, but league circles and scouts were. Which is their job, not mine.

That much is clear from quotes in the McCagg article that was published BEFORE the draft. Patrick was decidedly NOT a consensus #2 among actual NHL teams.

Hextall made a colossal mistake, and for some reason you continue to vigorously defend the pick.

 

[Audible Velvet]

I am so sick of the coaches always being blamed. I think it is safe to say the Flyers need talent. New scouts need to be brought in and told what skills the Flyers are looking for. Draft off that. Screw the “consensus” and hockey media.

But the coaches deserve blame, don’t they? Blame has been spread around quite a bit to management and development staff as well.

They’ve all been horrible with systems, communication and bench management, and it’s been a pattern. Even when they had talent (not quite enough), the guy running the bench was always there to exacerbate any roster flaws. They’ve all been dicks in their own special way.

 

[Striiker]

Clarke wouldn't lie guys.

All the scouts were against taking the big Canadian 1C prospect. They all wanted the small, skilled offensive defensemen who played in a lower league.

That sounds exactly like this org. Definitely no bias being applied to this narrative at all. Fletcher would've known to take Makar.

 

[kudymen]

So Joe and the burner account in the gdt believe it. Hehe

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Laughton's value will never be higher so if you have flyers 2 years away(generous) that makes him 31 when better. I trade Laughton.

The rest is pretty close to spot on. Although I think I would make the x next to York and acquire a vet d-man. We have messed around with Provorov's development with the 47 snow angel and Braun and ADA of the world. Maybe this time Flyers don't screw it up.

Overall very good

If you trade Seeler or Laughton you could in theory remove a very big logjam for Des/Brink and/or Zamula (especially if they add a 2nd pair D however).

Also underrated part I think I'm missing - do we expect the 7th pick to play this year? Probably not, but worth considering.

 

[renberg]

Going into the '17 draft, Patrick was the #1 ranked prospect for most of the year. Then Hischier took a rapid rise after January 1 so that going into the draft it was a flip of the coin as to who the Devils would take #1. A week before the draft Ray Shero indicated that Nico was their guy and, for them, it wasn't even close. They obviously had found something about Patrick that the Flyers either didn't or chose to ignore. Patrick had had injuries but no one was discussing concussions or migraines at that time about him. My suspicion is that Shero and the Devils found out about those problems as well as other concerns and the Flyers didn't do their diligence. The rest is history.
This underlines what scouts need to do and the Flyers' guys haven't done it well. They need to dig into the history of the prospects off of the ice. Things like motivation, family history, social behavior and other things that matter. They are indicators of a prospects chances for success as much as skating ability, shot, and other on ice skills.

 

[Stizzle]

Sanheim is a magician.

 

[freakydallas13]

The scouts recommended Heiskanen and Makar over Patrick.

Hextall overruled them.

There were questions about Patrick before the draft that I was not privy to, but league circles and scouts were. Which is their job, not mine.

That much is clear from quotes in the McCagg article that was published BEFORE the draft. Patrick was decidedly NOT a consensus #2 among actual NHL teams.

Hextall made a colossal mistake, and for some reason you continue to vigorously defend the pick.

MCCAGG SIGHTING

Also, scouts recommended Makar over Patrick? Citation needed. And no, Bob "I forgot his name" Clarke isn't a citation.

 

[deadhead]

Flyers haven't been great at drafting/development, but they haven't been awful either.
Some bad luck, Patrick, Laberge, Morin, Lindblom.
Some bad high choices in thin drafts, Rubtsov, JOB, Ratcliffe.
A lot of solid picks, TK, Sanheim, York, Foerster, Hart, given their draft slots.
Some steals, Cates, Ersson, Lindblom, Zamula.

Problem has been strategy,
Should have rebuilt after the Carter/Richards trade. Waited 2 years.
Should have restarted the rebuild summer of 2019.
Should have rebuilt when they traded G in spring of 2021.
Instead, gradually leaked assets over a decade.