2022/23 Roster Thread XX: Heading into the Homestretch

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Redpath

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If anyone is actually expecting Clarke/Homer/Barber to be "fired," I highly suspect they're in for a rude awakening.

At best their influence is going to become non-existent now with Hilferty having an independent sphere of influence, but I'd bet that they're still going to retain advisor-type titles and collect their pensions.
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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I don't think it has anything to do with the old bois club.
It could be three things
1) Briere has compromising pictures of Camillo
2) Time to get someone who can speak French and recruit Quebec players
3) They're lazy

Seriously, I think certain Comcast people have been grooming Briere for 2-3 years, obviously Camillo, but probably others behind the scene. They may prefer him b/c they know him, or because he knows the organization and can hit the ground running (where a new hire would need time to evaluate people in the organization and identify the "rot."), or both.

I think this has been in the works for a while, remember last fall when Torts called Briere "brilliant?" Now what prompted that? Torts is a lot of things but not a suck up. That suggested to me they had been talking about the team and what they saw needed to be fixed for a while and Torts was impressed with Briere's ideas. Now the decision may not have been made by senior management yet, but Briere was already being positioned to take over at some point.

Anyone you hire is a gamble, either they're a retread or someone who hasn't proven he can do the job (which can only be proven by doing the job). I don't care about gambling on Briere, b/c he's committed to rebuilding, which means even if he "fails," he should stockpile significant assets for the next guy. If he had promised to quickly turn this mess around, then I'd be worried.
 

dragonoffrost

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Posters here act like Clarke, Holmgren, and Barber were running the show.

Clarke is in Florida. Maybe Homer and Barber sat in on a lot of management meetings, or maybe they didn't. It's all speculation.

What we do know, as a fact, is that Dean Lombardi was the only "senior advisor" who sat in during the Tortorella interview process.

The first interview was conducted by Chuck, Flahr, and Briere. And Lombardi joined for the second interview.

That's not saying there weren't other "advisors" in management's ears, but Lombardi's presence indicates to me that if you want to pick one "senior advisor" who was probably most involved in the team's decisions, my money is on Dean Lombardi more than Clarke Holmgren and Barber.

Edit: I should say "day-to-day decisions."


There's these wonderful inventions called Cell Phones, Email and Video Conferencing.... The world during COVID should have taught you about them.

Being in Florida can be like being in the Wells Fargo Center.
 
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Beef Invictus

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I don't think it has anything to do with the old bois club.
It could be three things
1) Briere has compromising pictures of Camillo
2) Time to get someone who can speak French and recruit Quebec players
3) They're lazy

Seriously, I think certain Comcast people have been grooming Briere for 2-3 years, obviously Camillo, but probably others behind the scene. They may prefer him b/c they know him, or because he knows the organization and can hit the ground running (where a new hire would need time to evaluate people in the organization and identify the "rot."), or both.

I think this has been in the works for a while, remember last fall when Torts called Briere "brilliant?" Now what prompted that? Torts is a lot of things but not a suck up. That suggested to me they had been talking about the team and what they saw needed to be fixed for a while and Torts was impressed with Briere's ideas. Now the decision may not have been made by senior management yet, but Briere was already being positioned to take over at some point.

Anyone you hire is a gamble, either they're a retread or someone who hasn't proven he can do the job (which can only be proven by doing the job). I don't care about gambling on Briere, b/c he's committed to rebuilding, which means even if he "fails," he should stockpile significant assets for the next guy. If he had promised to quickly turn this mess around, then I'd be worried.

Well, him sucking up to Briere seems to make him a suckup.

Tortorella's idea of brilliance is shit. He's dumb as a rock because the game left him in 2003. Briere's idea of brilliance is signing Deslauriers long-term. Oh hey, Tortorella said that's exactly who he wants more of next year. Great. Those two seeing eye to eye is a nightmare. I'd have vastly more faith if Tortorella didn't like Briere's hockey approach.
 

Columbus Hockey Dad

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I think a number of you might be reading the Hilferty interview incorrectly. My interpretation is that the "Titans" of the Flyers legacy will be around in ceremony only. He didn't want to offend them because he has respect for what he perceives as a lifetime given to the organization, but at the same time....no one is going to seek them out for actual advice, nor are they going to listen beyond being polite. I think you guys might be overreacting.
 

Beef Invictus

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I think a number of you might be reading the Hilferty interview incorrectly. My interpretation is that the "Titans" of the Flyers legacy will be around in ceremony only. He didn't want to offend them because he has respect for what he perceives as a lifetime given to the organization, but at the same time....no one is going to seek them out for actual advice, nor are they going to listen beyond being polite. I think you guys might be overreacting.

The team is chock full of their people from top to bottom. Only one of them has been removed.

The last time Clarke was sidelined he made himself a massive franchise-shattering problem.
 

kudymen

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There's these wonderful inventions called Cell Phones, Email and Video Conferencing.... The world during COVID should have taught you about them.

Being in Florida can be like being in the Wells Fargo Center.

Tortorella can’t watch hockey on tape. Do you think they would understand the existence of a telephone?
 

Ghosts Beer

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Feb 10, 2014
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This is exactly what I mean. You are a very intelligent person. You cannot tell me you believe Dave Scott was alone at fault for everything that happened over the last 4 years. I don’t believe you believe that.

You don’t have opinions. You find opinions to oppose. You exist in this corner of the internet to find things with which you disagree and then argue them endlessly. It’s not contrarianism. That would at least have some substance. You’re an opinion vampire, sucking minutes of life out of anyone dumb enough to get bitten. Yes, I’m calling myself dumb.
1) Thank you for the compliment.

2) No, I am not arguing (and have not argued) that Dave Scott is ”alone at fault for everything that happened over the last 4 years.” You are correct: I do not believe that at all.

3) I believe there is a ton of blame to be shared for the current state of the Flyers.

4) I believe many fans have focused their ire on Chuck Fletcher, placing 90% of the blame on him.

5) I do not believe that is an accurate apportionment of the blame that should, I agree, be shared.

6) I do believe that Dave Scott’s “win now” mandate placed Chuck in an untenable position, once it was clear that the organization’s ability to execute that mandate was a misevaluation (compounded by injuries).

7) I do believe Chuck encountered a pretty remarkable amount of bad luck.

8) I do believe that Ron Hextall deserves a much larger share of the blame than this board tends to acknowledge.

9) I support the decision & timing in moving on from Chuck, as the unfortunate fact remains that after 4 years too many of his moves were unsuccessful/didn’t work out. And, with his job hanging by a thread, the trade deadline did nothing to salvage any confidence for the future.

10) If you believe that all of the above equates to me screaming that Chuck was treated unfairly, you have a right to your interpretation.

11) I do believe he was overly scapegoated by many fans who fail to acknowledge the significance of others’ roles in the current state of the Flyers.

12) So maybe it’s a matter of semantics/my misunderstanding what you meant. In the above respect, I do believe he was treated unfairly by many fans & posters.

13) I object to your characterization that I don’t have my own opinions & only seek out opinions to oppose, as if it’s some kind of performance art. I think your perspective exhibits hubris, as if no one could seriously hold a belief counter to yours or the board consensus.

14) In that respect, your stance reminds me of Neil deGrasse Tyson’s recent comments, “I’m interested in medical consensus & scientific consensus… The individual scientist does not matter,” for which he IMO rightfully received criticism & many a Galileo meme.

15) This situation also reminds me of Dave Hakstol, of whom I took a middling stance & defended against claims he was a moron while opining he was neither great nor bad.

16) Similarly, the board accused me of not actually believing Hakstol wasn’t a moron, but simply finding an opinion to oppose. No, just as with Fletcher, I expressed my true opinion & analysis, & feel vindicated by Seattle’s season.

17) It has always been part of my nature to stand up for others who I genuinely believe are being attacked unjustly or if I believe facts are being misrepresented.

18) Which is to say I am genuine with my opinions, & I try very carefully to avoid having my analyses influenced by groupthink. If I arrive at a different conclusion than the consensus, so be it.

19) In circumstances of disagreement with the majority, this predictably annoys those with the prevailing opinion, & the mob rulers inevitably blame the schism on intentional contrarianism, lack of genuine belief on my part (“trolling”), or just plain lack of intelligence.

20) This is example 1 million, & why message boards are simply a reflection of tribalistic human nature.
 

Beef Invictus

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Hextall was forever ago. This roster is entirely Fletcher's. 100%. All blame goes to Fletcher. Hell, the only things making this team even a little bit threatening are Hextall guys.

Hextall sucked ass but blaming him for Fletcher is sad.
 

Ghosts Beer

I saw Goody Fletcher with the Devil!
Feb 10, 2014
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There's these wonderful inventions called Cell Phones, Email and Video Conferencing.... The world during COVID should have taught you about them.

Being in Florida can be like being in the Wells Fargo Center.
Well, if you read the post you quoted, I say clear as day that I’m not contending that advisors who weren’t regularly physically present didn’t have management’s ear.

The implication, however, that Bob Clarke was essentially controlling the team from Florida, simply does not ring true to me.

And if there was an advisor who was insinuating himself into all of management’s decisions, my guess is it’s Lombardi, who has a team office, is physically around, & even sat in on Torts’ 2nd interview.

But no one seems to mention Lombardi. Just Clarke, Homer, & Barber.
 

dragonoffrost

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Well, if you read the post you quoted, I say clear as day that I’m not contending that advisors who weren’t regularly physically present didn’t have management’s ear.

The implication, however, that Bob Clarke was essentially controlling the team from Florida, simply does not ring true to me.

And if there was an advisor who was insinuating himself into all of management’s decisions, my guess is it’s Lombardi, who has a team office, is physically around, & even sat in on Torts’ 2nd interview.

But no one seems to mention Lombardi. Just Clarke, Homer, & Barber.
They have all been mentioned in the Cronyarchy.... But Clarke is the head of the snake.

Clarke could have sat in on every interview.

Again technology is a wonderful thing and can be used to control shit from anywhere now.

If a person wants to do something bad enough they will find a way to do just that.
 
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Beef Invictus

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Well, if you read the post you quoted, I say clear as day that I’m not contending that advisors who weren’t regularly physically present didn’t have management’s ear.

The implication, however, that Bob Clarke was essentially controlling the team from Florida, simply does not ring true to me.

And if there was an advisor who was insinuating himself into all of management’s decisions, my guess is it’s Lombardi, who has a team office, is physically around, & even sat in on Torts’ 2nd interview.

But no one seems to mention Lombardi. Just Clarke, Homer, & Barber.

Nobody has argued Clarke controlled the team from Florida. You are the only person to ever even write that. It's a thing you made up. It's false. Fake. Not real. A strawman.

Lombardi gets mentioned constantly. Barber too, because along with Clarke it is heavily rumored he is also also involved. Holmgren is the only one that isn't surrounded by smoke, and the only person mentioning him is deadhead in an attempt to scapegoat him for reasons nobody can fathom.

Clarke gets the most heat because he is directly to blame for all of their involvement. Hes the reason they're all even here.

Is this gonna be one of those deals where, now that you know what is actually being said, you'll just keep repeating the lie despite knowing it's untrue?
 
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dragonoffrost

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There is a reason things permeate through many different people at levels below one person who has not changed other than to go from a position to a special advisor to that position. And it's a simple reason.
 

deadhead

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Yeah, I figure the same, $4M for 3 more years.
The only other matching contracts would be Jenner (no way), Merzlikins (Briere would die laughing), and Andrew Peeke (3yr/$2.75M).
I suspect Briere would then flip Gudbranson with money retained for anything he can get.
 

Magua

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Crazy thought, but the Blue Jackets have nearly $16MM in cap space next year with an already full roster. They can easily take Hayes at $3.6-4M -- which, frankly, benefits them -- without needing to dump Gudbranson, with 3 years of term, on the Flyers. Expecting them to then easily flip Gudbranson is entirely unrealistic, not to mention they'd only have 1 retention spot left over 3 years. Yuck. If the Flyers make that trade, it's because they're stupid and valued him not because they didn't have a choice. York-Gudbranson? Sign (de facto AGM) John Tortorella up!

I'm all for taking on a salary dump to increase value, but that doesn't seem to be what we're talking about here. I also don't trust anyone in this organization to properly assess a salary dump.
 

Striiker

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There are a lot of people in here who are 100% sure of what other people are thinking or doing behind the scenes with no actual evidence, meanwhile im not even 100% certain what i had for breakfast this morning.

I wish i had that type of clairvoyance.
It makes sense.

If they're going to constantly lie about things that are proven to be incorrect, might as well also make shit up about things that can't be proven either way.
 
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Don Nachbaur 26

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I think a number of you might be reading the Hilferty interview incorrectly. My interpretation is that the "Titans" of the Flyers legacy will be around in ceremony only. He didn't want to offend them because he has respect for what he perceives as a lifetime given to the organization, but at the same time....no one is going to seek them out for actual advice, nor are they going to listen beyond being polite. I think you guys might be overreacting.
that's the way I read it
 
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