2022/23 Roster Thread XX: Heading into the Homestretch

[Beef Invictus]

If you are talking to me, I have said for four years that Chuck Fletcher was hired by Dave Scott with the mandate to win now.

That's not "screaming that Chuck Fletcher was treated unfairly."

That's stating a stone-cold fact.

You've spent four years vigorously defending every aspect of Fletcher. You blame everything on Hextall.

Speaking of his hiring, he was hired because Clarke said to hire him.

 

[mja]

If you are talking to me, I have said for four years that Chuck Fletcher was hired by Dave Scott with the mandate to win now.

That's not "screaming that Chuck Fletcher was treated unfairly."

That's stating a stone-cold fact.

And he failed.

 

[Striiker]

There’s no serious fans who make flawed judgements, as we see on this site all the time. Nobody talks out of their ass, nobody values the wrong things.

All serious fans are 100% aligned on what is good and bad, so if this guy is a serious fan (as I’m sure he is because I was told so) then we can be 100% sure he’ll recognize the advisors and Torts are problems.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Speaking of his hiring, he was hired because Clarke said to hire him.

Again, nothing but speculation from a guy with a gigantic axe to grind with both Clarke and Torts.

What has been actually reported, by both Charlie O'Connor and Anthony San Filippo, is that Neil Glasberg, a consultant hired by Comcast to help run the head coach selection process, is the person responsible for recommending Tortorella.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Again, nothing but speculation from a guy with a gigantic axe to grind with both Clarke and Torts.

What has been actually reported, by both Charlie O'Connor and Anthony San Filippo, is that Neil Glasberg, a consultant hired by Comcast to help run the head coach selection process, is the person responsible for recommending Tortorella.

No, that's actually what Clarke and Homer and Scott have said out loud.

I'm talking about Fletcher so I don't know why you're talking about someone else entirely.

Anyway, on the Tortorella front, it was also roundly reported that Clarke was vigorously stumping for him.

Clarke is a professional hockey authority so it's weird he's wrong relative to amateurs all the time. You've made it seem such a thing is impossible. Same for Fletcher. Same for Tortorella now. Sometimes I think appeals to authority are a bad idea, especially when those authorities have decades of nonstop failure under their belts.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Peter Laviolette was the last time I had fun.

I’m tired of the try hard grind defence first obsession this franchise has.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Peter Laviolette was the last time I had fun.

I’m tired of the defence first obsession this franchise has.

It's a loser mindset.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

If you are talking to me, I have said for four years that Chuck Fletcher was hired by Dave Scott with the mandate to win now.

That's not "screaming that Chuck Fletcher was treated unfairly."

That's stating a stone-cold fact.

This is exactly what I mean. You are a very intelligent person. You cannot tell me you believe Dave Scott was alone at fault for everything that happened over the last 4 years. I don’t believe you believe that.

You don’t have opinions. You find opinions to oppose. You exist in this corner of the internet to find things with which you disagree and then argue them endlessly. It’s not contrarianism. That would at least have some substance. You’re an opinion vampire, sucking minutes of life out of anyone dumb enough to get bitten. Yes, I’m calling myself dumb.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

No, that's actually what Clarke and Homer and Scott have said out loud.

You are really contending that Clarke, Homer, and Scott have "said out loud" that the Flyers hired John Tortorella because Bob Clarke told them to hire John Tortorella?

I'm gonna need a link or citation to that one.

I follow the team as closely as anyone, and I'm taking "Things that Never Happened for $500, Alex."

 

[TCTC]

Posters here act like Clarke, Holmgren, and Barber were running the show.

Clarke is in Florida. Maybe Homer and Barber sat in on a lot of management meetings, or maybe they didn't. It's all speculation.

What we do know, as a fact, is that Dean Lombardi was the only "senior advisor" who sat in during the Tortorella interview process.

The first interview was conducted by Chuck, Flahr, and Briere. And Lombardi joined for the second interview.

That's not saying there weren't other "advisors" in management's ears, but Lombardi's presence indicates to me that if you want to pick one "senior advisor" who was probably most involved in the team's decisions, my money is on Dean Lombardi more than Clarke Holmgren and Barber.

Edit: I should say "day-to-day decisions."

Yeah, I think this "the advisors were pulling the strings" talk is blown out of proportions. I'm sure Clarke has an ego, but I really doubt Tortorella would work for a micromanaging maniac at this stage of his career.

 

[Chinatown88]

This is exactly what I mean. You are a very intelligent person. You cannot tell me you believe Dave Scott was alone at fault for everything that happened over the last 4 years. I don’t believe you believe that.

You don’t have opinions. You find opinions to oppose. You exist in this corner of the internet to find things with which you disagree and then argue them endlessly. It’s not contrarianism. That would at least have some substance. You’re an opinion vampire, sucking minutes of life out of anyone dumb enough to get bitten. Yes, I’m calling myself dumb.

 

[Curufinwe]

I really don't think the talking catching mitt has much sway anymore. Briere will do his own thing and I'll judge him on his results.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

 

[Beef Invictus]

You are really contending that Clarke, Homer, and Scott have "said out loud" that the Flyers hired John Tortorella because Bob Clarke told them to hire John Tortorella?

I'm gonna need a link or citation to that one.

I follow the team as closely as anyone, and I'm taking "Things that Never Happened for $500, Alex."

I have no idea how anyone is as openly dishonest as you are being. I don't believe you're illiterate. You had to go out of your way to edit my post so you can keep strawmanning.

The fact that you have to do this proves you cannot keep up otherwise. I have no idea what you think you're getting from this.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, I think this "the advisors were pulling the strings" talk is blown out of proportions. I'm sure Clarke has an ego, but I really doubt Tortorella would work for a micromanaging maniac at this stage of his career.

Nobody at all is arguing what GB claims is being said. He's doing the thing where he lies.

 

[deadhead]

This is exactly what I mean. You are a very intelligent person. You cannot tell me you believe Dave Scott was alone at fault for everything that happened over the last 4 years. I don’t believe you believe that.

You don’t have opinions. You find opinions to oppose. You exist in this corner of the internet to find things with which you disagree and then argue them endlessly. It’s not contrarianism. That would at least have some substance. You’re an opinion vampire, sucking minutes of life out of anyone dumb enough to get bitten. Yes, I’m calling myself dumb.

I think a better way to put it was Scott's abdication of leadership, due to his abysmal ignorance of the "industry" in which his "company" operated (which would get most Presidents fired in a year), created a vacuum which allowed the advisors to have undue influence.

The consensus decision making model, which was installed by Holmgren (with Clarke?) in 2018 when he hired Fletcher, gave the advisors a larger role than is the norm. I don't care about Fletcher's nominal titles, he knew Barber was advising his boss (Scott), he was hired by Holmgren, he knew Clarke pulled a bunch of strings. So I'm sure he was very deferrential to their opinions. Doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but like I've always said, Fletcher was a symptom, not the disease.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think a better way to put it was Scott's abdication of leadership, due to his abysmal ignorance of the "industry" in which his "company" operated (which would get most Presidents fired in a year), created a vacuum which allowed the advisors to have undue influence.

The consensus decision making model, which was installed by Holmgren (with Clarke?) in 2018 when he hired Fletcher, gave the advisors a larger role than is the norm. I don't care about Fletcher's nominal titles, he knew Barber was advising his boss (Scott), he was hired by Holmgren, he knew Clarke pulled a bunch of strings. So I'm sure he was very deferrential to their opinions. Doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but like I've always said, Fletcher was a symptom, not the disease.

Your fiction here has been debunked repeatedly. You keep spouting falsehoods which have shown to you to be false. Why do you despise truth?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Barber still around. Lombardi still around. Hanrahan. Dave Brown. Samuelsson. f***ing Chris Stewart. Anderson.

McCauley just promoted. Briere the same without any external search.

This shit is no different, the process of employing incompetent men is still very much alive. They fired Fletcher, and said the word rebuild because from a PR POV they couldn’t hold off anymore.

Nothing significant has changed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Barber still around. Lombardi still around. Hanrahan. Dave Brown. Samuelsson. f***ing Chris Stewart. Anderson.

McCauley just promoted. Briere the same without any external search.

This shit is no different, the process of employing incompetent men is still very much alive. They fired Fletcher, and said the word rebuild because from a PR POV they couldn’t hold off anymore.

Nothing significant has changed.

Flahr! f***ing Flahr!

Nothing has changed. It's very bizarre to see so many acting like a page has been turned.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I am laughing heartily here at the level of dishonesty going on here.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am laughing heartily here at the level of dishonesty going on here.

It's hit a new level.

 

[Striiker]

I'm laughing heartily at "very intelligent person".

Oh and this too

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Flahr! f***ing Flahr!

Nothing has changed. It's very bizarre to see so many acting like a page has been turned.

This is happening out of a belief that this organization will operate with an not yet shown level of competence and a heavy splash of dishonesty.

It’s the same thing that we see every year.

This year will be different!

 

[TCTC]

Flahr! f***ing Flahr!

Nothing has changed. It's very bizarre to see so many acting like a page has been turned.

At the end of the day the GM is the one who's most important for the day to day business. This is a big career opportunity for Briere. It's been reported that other teams also had interest in him.
Why would he take his job just to be someone's puppet?
Maybe we would feel better if they cleaned house, but I don't think has to be necessary.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I think a better way to put it was Scott's abdication of leadership, due to his abysmal ignorance of the "industry" in which his "company" operated (which would get most Presidents fired in a year), created a vacuum which allowed the advisors to have undue influence.

Sure. Everyone involved here from Scott to Clarke to Fletcher has to have some responsibility for enabling everyone else. You only get this level of failure if it permeates the org at an atomic level.

The consensus decision making model, which was installed by Holmgren (with Clarke?) in 2018 when he hired Fletcher, gave the advisors a larger role than is the norm. I don't care about Fletcher's nominal titles, he knew Barber was advising his boss (Scott), he was hired by Holmgren, he knew Clarke pulled a bunch of strings. So I'm sure he was very deferrential to their opinions. Doesn't absolve him of responsibility, but like I've always said, Fletcher was a symptom, not the disease.

You don't have any way to know this. I don't know this to be wrong, either. But it really is ok to just say you don't know something rather than being this sure of what, how, and when.