2022/23 Roster Thread XVIII: The bats have left the bell tower

[BiggE]

This team is run by simpletons

 

[deadhead]

Okay but we need a Mr. Dynamic...not another decent 3rd pair Dman that will get over played bc of over valued physical traits.

This organization values the Ginnings and the Seelers of the world over real talent..thats the issue.

No, these are the guys who play on your 3rd pair, they don't replace guys with talent, they just provide depth - because even Colorado with Makar, Toews, Girard and Byrum, traded for Manson (physical RHD with limited skill, sounds familiar?) and ends up playing guys like Eric Johnson (34), Brad Hunt (26g) and Andraes Englund (29g).

It's not "either or", it's hard to find those dynamic defenseman, Andrae will come over next year, Attard is a work in progress, then . . .

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, these are the guys who play on your 3rd pair, they don't replace guys with talent, they just provide depth - because even Colorado with Makar, Toews, Girard and Byrum, traded for Manson (physical RHD with limited skill, sounds familiar?) and ends up playing guys like Eric Johnson (34), Brad Hunt (26g) and Andraes Englund (29g).

It's not "either or", it's hard to find those dynamic defenseman, Andrae will come over next year, Attard is a work in progress, then . . .

Playing actual talent on your 3rd pair is way better than shooting for the floor.

The Flyers strategy doesn't achieve depth. Building for role and fit is building to lose.

 

[chadateit]

Playing actual talent on your 3rd pair is way better than shooting for the floor.

The Flyers strategy doesn't achieve depth. Building for role and fit is building to lose.

I've always been a fan of the saying "better to shoot for the stars and hit the streetlamp than to shoot for the streetlamp and hit the curb."

 

[ponder719]

I've always been a fan of the saying "better to shoot for the stars and hit the streetlamp than to shoot for the streetlamp and hit the curb."

I'd settle for the team doing the latter, tbh. They tend to shoot for their feet and hit their crotch.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Now we’re comparing Adam Ginning to Josh Manson.

 

[Adam Warlock]

No, these are the guys who play on your 3rd pair, they don't replace guys with talent, they just provide depth - because even Colorado with Makar, Toews, Girard and Byrum, traded for Manson (physical RHD with limited skill, sounds familiar?) and ends up playing guys like Eric Johnson (34), Brad Hunt (26g) and Andraes Englund (29g).

It's not "either or", it's hard to find those dynamic defenseman, Andrae will come over next year, Attard is a work in progress, then . . .

But the Flyers make it an either or...thats what weve been arguing with you abput for a decade.

If the Flyers draft the next Makar this year....2 camps from now itd he Ginning and that kid fighting for a spot and the team would pick ginning and youd support it. They would rather have a team of ginnings and seelers than take a chance on a talented guy.

The flyers have an nhl team of bottom 6 dmen and you would rather see them promote ginning than a player with actual top D upside.

 

[Magua]

Now we’re comparing Adam Ginning to Josh Manson.

There’s this board “grossly overvaluing Hextall's draft picks” again! I mean the same person can’t write that this week and also compare Ginning to Manson, right? Right?

 

[Beef Invictus]

There’s this board “grossly overvaluing Hextall's draft picks” again! I mean the same person can’t write that this week and also compare Ginning to Manson, right? Right?

In a PGT it was heavily implied that Cates has Couturier-level IQ

 

[Flyer lurker]

WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
·
8m

Brian Bellows cleared waivers, as expected



(YES HE SAID BRIAN BELLOWS)

 

[landsbergfan]

WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
·
8m

Brian Bellows cleared waivers, as expected



(YES HE SAID BRIAN BELLOWS)

@Captain Dave Poulin

 

[Beef Invictus]

WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
·
8m

Brian Bellows cleared waivers, as expected



(YES HE SAID BRIAN BELLOWS)

Legend.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

There’s this board “grossly overvaluing Hextall's draft picks” again! I mean the same person can’t write that this week and also compare Ginning to Manson, right? Right?

Manson’s obviously not at his peak anymore at 31 years old. But at his peak in Anaheim he was legitimately a two-way top pairing defender. As a prospect to NHL player he’s in that rare territory of being a better NHL offensive producer than he was at the lower levels.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
·
8m

Brian Bellows cleared waivers, as expected



(YES HE SAID BRIAN BELLOWS)

 

[Magua]

Charlie O’Connor basically compared DeAngelo to Limp Bizkit in his article today, and I think that’s one of the more accurate NHL comparisons I’ve seen.

I liked this part:

“The defensive side, we believe Tony’s improved that part of the game,” Fletcher said.

But that was always a fantasy, at least per Evolving-Hockey’s RAPM model, which isolates a player’s impact on his team’s chance creation (offense) and chance suppression (defense). The model showcases two things: DeAngelo has always graded out among the league’s worst blueliners at defense, and there were no measurable signs of improvement heading into 2022-23.

This franchise smells.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Charlie O’Connor basically compared DeAngelo to Limp Bizkit in his article today, and I think that’s one of the more accurate NHL comparisons I’ve seen.

I liked this part:



This franchise smells.

@Magua
So is this is a move a rebuilding team should make?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Charlie O’Connor basically compared DeAngelo to Limp Bizkit in his article today, and I think that’s one of the more accurate NHL comparisons I’ve seen.

I liked this part:



This franchise smells.

DeAngelo visibly shows frustration on the ice at times which will result in him throwing a hit or starting a fight/scrum out of that frustration. That’s essentially why Fletcher & Co. overlooked his defensive woes. To them that’s effort!

I don’t/didn’t think DeAngelo is a bad player but he has glaring flaws on the defensive side that you need to supplement to minimize while squeezing out his obvious high end offensive abilities. But the Flyers don’t have that & never did which makes the investment they made all the more puzzling & not shocking the way it’s went with anyone with half a brain.

 

[Flyer lurker]

DeAngelo visibly shows frustration on the ice at times which will result in him throwing a hit or starting a fight/scrum out of that frustration. That’s essentially why Fletcher & Co. overlooked his defensive woes. To them that’s effort!

Under this guideline 44 should be a first liner.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Us @ Cap whenever Bellows comes up

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Jeff Marek mentioned Minnesota, Winnipeg, & Vegas as teams that are in on JvR tonight on HNIC.

 

[deadhead]

Lycksell is an awkward fit right now, Desnoyers would be easier to put on a 4th line (move Brown to RW).
Makes me wonder if they chose Lycksell simply to let him get his feet wet for a few games before he steps in for JVR after he's traded in a week or two.

My point with Ginning is simply that there are a lot of big, physical D-men with limited skills who've carved out long careers in the NHL, Luke Schenn for example. He doesn't have to be dynamic, he does have to be consistent, know his limitations and play within them. Ginning has functional mobility, he makes good outlet passes, he blocks shots. His ceiling is 3rd pair D-man, but the same can be said about Zamula, who isn't dynamic enough for the top 4 right now.

Attard is more of a wild card, he has top four offensive skills, but has to be a lot more trustworthy on defense. Not going to carry play, but he could be a serious threat in the O-zone with the right partner.

Problem is you could get by with Risto or Attard at 2RHD, but you don't want either one at 1RHD.
TDA can't play defense and Ellis has left the building.
So either York stays at 1RHD for the indefinite future or they need to find one.

 

[Starat327]

Jeff Marek mentioned Minnesota, Winnipeg, & Vegas as teams that are in on JvR tonight on HNIC.

Chuck is re-signing him. 6x8

 

[Beef Invictus]

Lycksell is an awkward fit right now, Desnoyers would be easier to put on a 4th line (move Brown to RW).
Makes me wonder if they chose Lycksell simply to let him get his feet wet for a few games before he steps in for JVR after he's traded in a week or two.

My point with Ginning is simply that there are a lot of big, physical D-men with limited skills who've carved out long careers in the NHL, Luke Schenn for example. He doesn't have to be dynamic, he does have to be consistent, know his limitations and play within them. Ginning has functional mobility, he makes good outlet passes, he blocks shots. His ceiling is 3rd pair D-man, but the same can be said about Zamula, who isn't dynamic enough for the top 4 right now.

Attard is more of a wild card, he has top four offensive skills, but has to be a lot more trustworthy on defense. Not going to carry play, but he could be a serious threat in the O-zone with the right partner.

Problem is you could get by with Risto or Attard at 2RHD, but you don't want either one at 1RHD.
TDA can't play defense and Ellis has left the building.
So either York stays at 1RHD for the indefinite future or they need to find one.

Building for archaic role/fit notions is bad management and a It is a major reason the team sucks. It's shooting low.

 

[ponder719]

WHEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Sam Carchidi
@BroadStBull
·
8m

Brian Bellows cleared waivers, as expected



(YES HE SAID BRIAN BELLOWS)

I thought Sam was ribbing Meltzer, who had made that same mistake first.

Though tbf, they could have just both f***ed it up.

 

[BernieParent]

But the Flyers make it an either or...thats what weve been arguing with you abput for a decade.

If the Flyers draft the next Makar this year....2 camps from now itd he Ginning and that kid fighting for a spot and the team would pick ginning and youd support it. They would rather have a team of ginnings and seelers than take a chance on a talented guy.

The flyers have an nhl team of bottom 6 dmen and you would rather see them promote ginning than a player with actual top D upside.

Ginning is a glue guy who reflects the identity of the city.