2022/23 Roster Thread XVIII: The bats have left the bell tower

[Beef Invictus]

A successful rebuild starts from the top and goes down from there to the product on the ice.
That letter along with the hiring of Camillo and Tortorella seems to indicate changes are taking place behind closed doors. These people are not Fletcher/Flahr types.

As a defensive grinding-loving coach, Tortorella is definitely a Fletcher/Flahr type. There's no real difference between the Cronies and Fletcher on hockey philosophy. That's why he's here.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

A successful rebuild starts from the top and goes down from there to the product on the ice.
That letter along with the hiring of Camillo and Tortorella seems to indicate changes are taking place behind closed doors. These people are not Fletcher/Flahr types.

Camillo was hired a week after Fletcher was hired.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Weird, we all said that this would be the case when he was acquired but we were told that Torts is a genius and he'd be able to fix it and also that TDA is elite and Makaresque.

Womp Womp.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Really? Because I'm not surprised. You could see it by watching him.


Once again, this team will not stop being terrible until random dorks on the internet aren't better at this than they are.

 

[Prongo]

It’s a joke that the coach has to make this declaration and our pro scouts and GM didn’t come to this realization before shipping away pretty significant assets and $ for him. Hell, you didn’t even need to watch the Hurricanes to come to this assessment. f***ing joke of a franchise.

When people talk about cleaning house, this is specifically why. Everyone from the bottom up needs to be let go and organizationally they need a hard reset.

 

[FLYguy3911]

If you are thinking about making a trade with Carolina, don't.

 

[ajgoal]

Weird, we all said that this would be the case when he was acquired but we were told that Torts is a genius and he'd be able to fix it and also that TDA is elite and Makaresque.

Womp Womp.

Make it stop.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If I weren't busy I'd scan the relevant threads to see if the usual defenders were ripping into anyone doubting the trade with the usual "I think these professionals know more than you" appeals to authority.

(They probably were)

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

If I weren't busy I'd scan the relevant threads to see if the usual defenders were ripping into anyone doubting the trade with the usual "I think these professionals know more than you" appeals to authority.

(They probably were)

They were but they'll say it never happened.

 

[deadhead]

I think Fletcher wanted to do what Guerin actually has done in Minnesota, try to add young talent while remaining competitive. This would help him keep his job in the short run (placate Scott and the advisors) while adding desperately needed young talent.

The difference is Fletcher totally screwed that up, Guerin added a bunch of low cost patches, only Zuccarello cost real money, and none cost assets, while trading Fiala and Zucker for assets.

Fletcher instead trades real assets for a 27 year old D-man, then trades some more assets a year later for another 27 year old D-man, Moves that are neither short-term patches or long-term rebuilding. Trades G for picks and Tippett (Deslauriers is a nothing move, heck, Guerin traded a 3rd to rent Deslauriers a year ago), and isn't able to sign JG. Cognitive dissonance at its best.

 

[Curufinwe]

It’s a joke that the coach has to make this declaration and our pro scouts and GM didn’t come to this realization before shipping away pretty significant assets and $ for him. Hell, you didn’t even need to watch the Hurricanes to come to this assessment. f***ing joke of a franchise.

Ultimately, the GM is the one who made the move, just like he made the Risto trade. Firing him would be a great start.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I think Fletcher wanted to do what Guerin actually has done in Minnesota, try to add young talent while remaining competitive. This would help him keep his job in the short run (placate Scott and the advisors) while adding desperately needed young talent.

The difference is Fletcher totally screwed that up, Guerin added a bunch of low cost patches, only Zuccarello cost real money, and none cost assets, while trading Fiala and Zucker for assets.

Fletcher instead trades real assets for a 27 year old D-man, then trades some more assets a year later for another 27 year old D-man, Moves that are neither short-term patches or long-term rebuilding. Trades G for picks and Tippett (Deslauriers is a nothing move, heck, Guerin traded a 3rd to rent Deslauriers a year ago), and isn't able to sign JG. Cognitive dissonance at its best.

 

[flyersnorth]

Weird, we all said that this would be the case when he was acquired but we were told that Torts is a genius and he'd be able to fix it and also that TDA is elite and Makaresque.

Womp Womp.

Um, I'm guessing the Flyers aren't trading him at the deadline then?? Otherwise, this is yet another masterclass in tanking a player's value.

Let's not forget Kevin "You can have him for free when we buy him out this summer" Hayes and Ivan "Rainbows give me the heebyjeebies" Provorov.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think Fletcher wanted to do what Guerin actually has done in Minnesota, try to add young talent while remaining competitive. This would help him keep his job in the short run (placate Scott and the advisors) while adding desperately needed young talent.

The difference is Fletcher totally screwed that up, Guerin added a bunch of low cost patches, only Zuccarello cost real money, and none cost assets, while trading Fiala and Zucker for assets.

Fletcher instead trades real assets for a 27 year old D-man, then trades some more assets a year later for another 27 year old D-man, Moves that are neither short-term patches or long-term rebuilding. Trades G for picks and Tippett (Deslauriers is a nothing move, heck, Guerin traded a 3rd to rent Deslauriers a year ago), and isn't able to sign JG. Cognitive dissonance at its best.

Fletcher has stated that he thinks adding youth is a problem and at every step has resisted playing youth whenever possible.

So no, that's not what he wanted to do and I have no idea why you would think that.

 

[FLYguy3911]

It's just amazing to me that the difference between an undersized, offensive defenseman going unclaimed on waivers and needing a premium pick to dump his contract and getting traded for three picks just for the right to offer him a $5 mill AAV contract, is an occasional fight and chirping when things aren't going your way.

DeAngelo is exactly the type of player people thought Ghost was.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's just amazing to me that the difference between an undersized, offensive defenseman going unclaimed on waivers and needing a premium pick to dump his contract and getting traded for three picks just for the right to offer him a $5 mill AAV contract, is an occasional fight and chirping when things aren't going your way.

DeAngelo is exactly the type of player people thought Ghost was.

We are heading into another TDL and offseason with the exact same braintrust that engineered these abominations fully intact.

 

[Redpath]

Part of the irony of course is that the Flyers were reportedly interested in DeAngelo even pre-Hurricanes when he signed there in 2021, so the implication that his strong Hurricanes stint altered their perception is wrong.

Trade Ghost for picks just to covet a Ghost clone anyway.

 

[renberg]

Camillo was hired a week after Fletcher was hired.

As President of Business Operations. In March of 2021 she became the team President.

 

[mja]

Part of the irony of course is that the Flyers were reportedly interested in DeAngelo even pre-Hurricanes when he signed there in 2021, so the implication that his strong Hurricanes stint altered their perception is wrong.

Trade Ghost for picks just to covet a Ghost clone anyway.

If he was a Ghost clone, he wouldn't be a wreck in his own end. He's a poor man's Ghost.

 

[Beef Invictus]

As President of Business Operations. In March of 2021 she became the team President.

And apparently has no influence over Hockey Ops as we learned in the Provorov Fallout.

 

[deadhead]

I think when TDA kept his nose clean, they were encourage to go after him.
Players can be coached up, Gustaffson has become a solid 2nd pair D-man in Washington this year.

 

[Curufinwe]

Part of the irony of course is that the Flyers were reportedly interested in DeAngelo even pre-Hurricanes when he signed there in 2021, so the implication that his strong Hurricanes stint altered their perception is wrong.

Trade Ghost for picks just to covet a Ghost clone anyway.

HockeyBuzz still has people who think Tony is much better defensively than Ghost.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Part of the irony of course is that the Flyers were reportedly interested in DeAngelo even pre-Hurricanes when he signed there in 2021, so the implication that his strong Hurricanes stint altered their perception is wrong.

Trade Ghost for picks just to covet a Ghost clone anyway.

Think ASF mentioned this, but it were other sources in the organization that initially squashed the idea from an optics standpoint.

I figure the green light was given after he stayed relatively vanilla in Carolina. The actual disturbing thought is that hockey analytic guru Ian Anderson apparently justified the asset spending for the move - and that’s according to Fletcher himself I believe.

Cockroach.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I think when TDA kept his nose clean, they were encourage to go after him.
Players can be coached up, Gustaffson has become a solid 2nd pair D-man in Washington this year.

Who encouraged them to go after him?

 

[FLYguy3911]

There’s the 50th contract!