2022/23 Roster Thread XVIII: The bats have left the bell tower

[WIP CALLER]

Fletcher isn't resigning, this could be his last big paycheck, he's gonna milk it as long as he can.

Sometimes I think people here either inherited money or have never been laid off.

This is hilarious. You make it seem like Fletcher is making 50k a year and living paycheck to paycheck… It’s not like he’s had 10+ years of high salary positions afforded to him through his daddys connections and speaking of inheritance, shouldn’t he have Cliffs millions to fall back on too? I don’t think Fletcher should have any worries about getting his last paycheck unless he runs his personal finances like he does his hockey teams. He’s not resigning to stretch out his last paycheck, he’s not resigning because he thinks he’s doing a good job and things are on the right track.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Better that than Æthelfletch the Unready.

This is a really high quality reference

 

[deadhead]

He's run out of patience with Chuck not commiting to a rebuild? That's rich coming from you, after you spent all summer and the start of the season yelling from the rooftops that Chuck already started the rebuild. Against the wishes of the senior advisers.

Which I'm sure you're about to bold face deny ever having said.

Which I never said.

What I said was that Scott and Fletcher were talking past each other, Fletcher talking about the need to add top young talent, Scott about how they were going to aggressively reload and compete this year.

Fletcher may have been too political for his own good, trying to please everyone and ending up pleasing no one.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Which I never said.

What I said was that Scott and Fletcher were talking past each other, Fletcher talking about the need to add top young talent, Scott about how they were going to aggressively reload and compete this year.

Fletcher may have been too political for his own good, trying to please everyone and ending up pleasing no one.

Fletcher also said youth playing is a problem. His actions as GM point to him being convinced of that.

The PC you cling to? He was lying.

 

[deadhead]

This is hilarious. You make it seem like Fletcher is making 50k a year and living paycheck to paycheck… It’s not like he’s had 10+ years of high salary positions afforded to him through his daddys connections and speaking of inheritance, shouldn’t he have Cliffs millions to fall back on too? I don’t think Fletcher should have any worries about getting his last paycheck unless he runs his personal finances like he does his hockey teams. He’s not resigning to stretch out his last paycheck, he’s not resigning because he thinks he’s doing a good job and things are on the right track.

Have you ever seen a player "resign" and give back the rest of his contract?

Fletcher would be crazy to resign, just wait to be fired and collect the rest of his contract.

Odds are he'll never get a GM job again, and won't be willing to be a scout or assistant and work 80 hour weeks for a fifth of the money. So this contract is the last big money he's going to see, and getting fired is a nice retirement bonus.

 

[deadhead]

Fletcher also said youth playing is a problem. His actions as GM point to him being convinced of that.

The PC you cling to? He was lying.

Nah. Trying to straddle both parties, pleasing the advisors and Scott by attempting to be competitive, trying to add young talent b/c there's no future in a team lead by a small group of over 30 players.

At this point he has to know it's hopeless, the team isn't good enough to compete, and the advisors won't accept anything that smells of a rebuild.

"Either go away or go all the way in . .. "

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nah. Trying to straddle both parties, pleasing the advisors and Scott by attempting to be competitive, trying to add young talent b/c there's no future in a team lead by a small group of over 30 players.

At this point he has to know it's hopeless, the team isn't good enough to compete, and the advisors won't accept anything that smells of a rebuild.

"Either go away or go all the way in . .. "

The rebuild talk is a lie. He doesn't disagree with the advisors. He's with them. He's never run a rebuild in his career. He isn't starting now.

If he disagreed with the advisors, then he wouldn't need to be overruled by Tortorella decreeing a rebuild, would he?

Your stories contradict.

 

[Curufinwe]

Repeat after me... trading six picks in two years to turn Ghost and Hagg into Risto and TDA is not a rebuild.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Repeat after me... trading six picks in two years to turn Ghost and Hagg into Risto and TDA is not a rebuild.

The TDA trade happened after Tortorella was hired and supposedly ordered a rebuild to commence.

 

[deadhead]

Torts didn't "order" anything, for one thing he wanted to see his new team on ice, b/c they were such a cluster f--- the last two seasons it was hard to get a read on the players.

Nor when he first arrived would he know the "players' in the organization or how to pull the levers.

About half way into the season, Torts has been more outspoken about the team, the level of talent, and what they need to turn it around. But he's done nothing out of character, which is why Fletcher didn't want to hire him in the first place - speaking your mind with this team means being honest about the need for a rebuild - and that has hastened the day of reckoning.

He hasn't explicitly said anything about Fletcher, but he demoted Risto to the 3rd pair, before promoting him to the 2nd pair over TDA, sent York down to LHV before promoting him to the first pair, plays Deslauriers the least minutes of any forward, moved Hayes from 2C to 3LW. None of this is a deliberate slap at Fletcher, it's just that Torts plays who he thinks will help him win, and doesn't give a damn about who his GM drafted, paid, or traded for.

I don't think Torts wants to run the show, he's not the power mad type, rather, he wants a GM who's on the same page, who understands what he wants in players and won't saddle him with bad fits. Who has the vision to help him build a team, instead of a quick fix that takes the team nowhere. Don't think Chuck is that guy. Is Briere?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Torts didn't "order" anything, for one thing he wanted to see his new team on ice, b/c they were such a cluster f--- the last two seasons it was hard to get a read on the players.

Nor when he first arrived would he know the "players' in the organization or how to pull the levers.

About half way into the season, Torts has been more outspoken about the team, the level of talent, and what they need to turn it around. But he's done nothing out of character, which is why Fletcher didn't want to hire him in the first place - speaking your mind with this team means being honest about the need for a rebuild - and that has hastened the day of reckoning.

He hasn't explicitly said anything about Fletcher, but he demoted Risto to the 3rd pair, before promoting him to the 2nd pair over TDA, sent York down to LHV before promoting him to the first pair, plays Deslauriers the least minutes of any forward, moved Hayes from 2C to 3LW. None of this is a deliberate slap at Fletcher, it's just that Torts plays who he thinks will help him win, and doesn't give a damn about who his GM drafted, paid, or traded for.

I don't think Torts wants to run the show, he's not the power mad type, rather, he wants a GM who's on the same page, who understands what he wants in players and won't saddle him with bad fits. Who has the vision to help him build a team, instead of a quick fix that takes the team nowhere. Don't think Chuck is that guy. Is Briere?

Ah, so we're doing the thing where we selectively believe ASF's reporting.

Cool, cool.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts didn't "order" anything, for one thing he wanted to see his new team on ice, b/c they were such a cluster f--- the last two seasons it was hard to get a read on the players.

Nor when he first arrived would he know the "players' in the organization or how to pull the levers.

About half way into the season, Torts has been more outspoken about the team, the level of talent, and what they need to turn it around. But he's done nothing out of character, which is why Fletcher didn't want to hire him in the first place - speaking your mind with this team means being honest about the need for a rebuild - and that has hastened the day of reckoning.

He hasn't explicitly said anything about Fletcher, but he demoted Risto to the 3rd pair, before promoting him to the 2nd pair over TDA, sent York down to LHV before promoting him to the first pair, plays Deslauriers the least minutes of any forward, moved Hayes from 2C to 3LW. None of this is a deliberate slap at Fletcher, it's just that Torts plays who he thinks will help him win, and doesn't give a damn about who his GM drafted, paid, or traded for.

I don't think Torts wants to run the show, he's not the power mad type, rather, he wants a GM who's on the same page, who understands what he wants in players and won't saddle him with bad fits. Who has the vision to help him build a team, instead of a quick fix that takes the team nowhere. Don't think Chuck is that guy. Is Briere?

This is a massive change in story from you. You were pretending Tortorella was in charge and bossing Fletcher around all summer.

 

[deadhead]

Ah, so we're doing the thing where we selectively believe ASF's reporting.

Cool, cool.

I agree with ASF that Torts probably warmed the hearts of the advisors, who didn't really understand what they were getting - they probably believe that all this team needed was a little discipline to be competitive - they weren't prepared for someone who'd wouldn't spin the company line.

I predicted this when Torts was hired.

Torts and Dubois clashed, but Dubois has repeated said Torts wasn't the problem, he wanted to be traded after he was pressured into signing a bridge deal - and he wasn't the first player alienated by the GM - don't know if it's just money or the style of negotiation.

Sure Torts pushed Dubois to be a two way center, he'll do the same with Gauthier when he arrives, he did it with Frost, he tried with Hayes and gave up and moved him to wing. Torts expects his centers to be key elements of the defense. If Couts comes back 100% you'll see an intense love affair, as Couts is the ideal Torts center.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I agree with ASF that Torts probably warmed the hearts of the advisors, who didn't really understand what they were getting - they probably believe that all this team needed was a little discipline to be competitive - they weren't prepared for someone who'd wouldn't spin the company line.

I predicted this when Torts was hired.

Torts and Dubois clashed, but Dubois has repeated said Torts wasn't the problem, he wanted to be traded after he was pressured into signing a bridge deal - and he wasn't the first player alienated by the GM - don't know if it's just money or the style of negotiation.

Sure Torts pushed Dubois to be a two way center, he'll do the same with Gauthier when he arrives, he did it with Frost, he tried with Hayes and gave up and moved him to wing. Torts expects his centers to be key elements of the defense. If Couts comes back 100% you'll see an intense love affair, as Couts is the ideal Torts center.

Ok, so just to be clear here, you’re cherry picking which stories you choose to believe and which ones you don’t based off of a narrative that you believe in order to fortify that narrative.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The fan fiction is becoming too super complex to stand up. It's falling apart.

Players don't openly bash coaches while their career is active. It's not how the league works. That's why it's incredibly rare. Reading into a player not openly slamming a coach and instead going "oh yeah it was fine. No conflict. I do not ever have problems with coaches please pay me" is a bad idea.

You predicted the team would be rebuilding because Tortorella would have all the power. You said that Fletcher's titles are empty and he would just follow Tortorella's orders. Then they traded for DeAngelo.

 

[deadhead]

And whose name was on the letter? And who is being removed from team pictures, comrade?

The purge is coming.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

And whose name was on the letter? And who is being removed from team pictures, comrade?

The purge is coming.

Tortorella's name was on the letter because even this organization isn't dumb enough to put Chuck Fletcher's name on something at his juncture.

Chuck Fletcher ran the team this offseason (and the offseasons before that despite your claims that AV did) and he still runs it today.

 

[Curufinwe]

Pop quiz - can you name this person?

Philadelphia Flyers	General Manager	Dec. 3, 2018 - Present	51 -	4 Years, 2 Months, 6 Days
Philadelphia Flyers	Executive Vice President	Dec. 3, 2018 - Jul. 10, 2019	51 - 52	7 Months, 7 Days
Philadelphia Flyers	President of Hockey Operations	Jul. 11, 2019 - Present	52 -	3 Years, 6 Months, 29 Days

 

[mja]

Pop quiz - can you name this person?

Philadelphia Flyers	General Manager	Dec. 3, 2018 - Present	51 -	4 Years, 2 Months, 6 Days
Philadelphia Flyers	Executive Vice President	Dec. 3, 2018 - Jul. 10, 2019	51 - 52	7 Months, 7 Days
Philadelphia Flyers	President of Hockey Operations	Jul. 11, 2019 - Present	52 -	3 Years, 6 Months, 29 Days

John Tortorella? Paul Holmgren? How many do I get?

 

[Cody Webster]

Ok, so just to be clear here, you’re cherry picking which stories you choose to believe and which ones you don’t based off of a narrative that you believe in order to fortify that narrative.

Just going to casually ignore this and move on

 

[Beef Invictus]

And whose name was on the letter? And who is being removed from team pictures, comrade?

The purge is coming.

Believing that letter is proof of a rebuild and that Tortorella is in charge of the team's direction is as ridiculous as proclaiming that Tortorella is an offensive-minded coach.

Or as ridiculous as clinging to words at a press conference a year ago when all actions since that presser have disproven those words.

 

[flyersnorth]

Repeat after me... trading six picks in two years to turn Ghost and Hagg into Risto and TDA is not a rebuild.

I do get the sense that the organization is finally accepting that a (re)build is where they will pivot.

Having a letter from Torts with no mention or appearance by Fletcher and Scott speaks volumes. The organization may be incompetent - but they're not stupid. They have access to social media, podcasts, regional and national media coverage, and it has been outright hostile of Fletcher and not much better for the Flyers.

The disconnect is that this letter from Torts - implicitly endorsed by the organization with Fletcher deliberately left out of the messaging - leaves Fletcher as a lame duck GM. So why is he still here? I don't know how you can keep him after this. And if that's the case, why is he going to be making important decisions on the future of the franchise?

The funniest thing to me is that Columbus got JG and could very well end up with Bedard too. Oh the humanity.

At least we got DeAngelo and Deslauriers.

 

[freakydallas13]

Which I never said.

What I said was that Scott and Fletcher were talking past each other, Fletcher talking about the need to add top young talent, Scott about how they were going to aggressively reload and compete this year.

Fletcher may have been too political for his own good, trying to please everyone and ending up pleasing no one.

Oh interesting. Please tell me what this team is doing right now if it isn't rebuilding. Is it trying to compete? Because if so, Chuck E. Fletcher is doing a bang up job.

Edit: If the search function weren't broken I'd go back and find the posts you made arguing the team was rebuilding since the last offseason, so I guess consider yourself lucky I can't.

 

[renberg]

A successful rebuild starts from the top and goes down from there to the product on the ice.
That letter along with the hiring of Camillo and Tortorella seems to indicate changes are taking place behind closed doors. These people are not Fletcher/Flahr types.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Pop quiz - can you name this person?

Philadelphia Flyers	General Manager	Dec. 3, 2018 - Present	51 -	4 Years, 2 Months, 6 Days
Philadelphia Flyers	Executive Vice President	Dec. 3, 2018 - Jul. 10, 2019	51 - 52	7 Months, 7 Days
Philadelphia Flyers	President of Hockey Operations	Jul. 11, 2019 - Present	52 -	3 Years, 6 Months, 29 Days

matt niskanin ?