2022/23 Roster Thread XVII: The Days are Getting Longer

[deadhead]

I don't know if the prospect pool is awful, remember when the Hextall pool was supposed to be great?
TK, Farabee, Frost, Cates, Allison at forward, Provorov, Sanheim on D, Hart, Ersson, Fedotov in goal, out of 5 drafts and 8 1st rd picks.

So wait a couple years and see how York, Brink, Attard, Foerster, Andrae, Wisdom, Desnoyers, Tuomaala, Kolosov, Sampson, Gauthier, Kaplan turn out.

Gauthier and this year's pick are probably the key, need two top 6/top 4 starters from those picks.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't know if the prospect pool is awful, remember when the Hextall pool was supposed to be great?
TK, Farabee, Frost, Cates, Allison at forward, Provorov, Sanheim on D, Hart, Ersson, Fedotov in goal, out of 5 drafts and 8 1st rd picks.

So wait a couple years and see how York, Brink, Attard, Foerster, Andrae, Wisdom, Desnoyers, Tuomaala, Kolosov, Sampson, Gauthier, Kaplan turn out.

Gauthier and this year's pick are probably the key, need two top 6/top 4 starters from those picks.

Terrible development process ruined that.

You even keep bringing up strange regressions and stagnations that indicate bad development.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Amazing to think how much better the prospects will be this time around - when the same scouting staff has been wined, dined, and 69’ed for over a decade.

More vanilla secondary trash.

 

[captainpaxil]

I don't know if the prospect pool is awful, remember when the Hextall pool was supposed to be great?
TK, Farabee, Frost, Cates, Allison at forward, Provorov, Sanheim on D, Hart, Ersson, Fedotov in goal, out of 5 drafts and 8 1st rd picks.

So wait a couple years and see how York, Brink, Attard, Foerster, Andrae, Wisdom, Desnoyers, Tuomaala, Kolosov, Sampson, Gauthier, Kaplan turn out.

Gauthier and this year's pick are probably the key, need two top 6/top 4 starters from those picks.

The hextall pool was loaded with depth players. This is below that without the Patrick pick. I have high hopes for Gautier but I don't see much else in that tier where top contenders have multiple players.
The trick on winning on depth will be grabbing a second 1st this year and nailing both picks next year. We can not under any circumstances change gears and need to continue to establish a bottom of the roster gritty culture where you can plug in a whole top line and have them buy in.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Amazing to think how much better the prospects will be this time around - when the same scouting staff has been wined, dined, and 69’ed for over a decade.

More vanilla secondary trash.

Its all Hexy's fault.

 

[deadhead]

The hextall pool was loaded with depth players. This is below that without the Patrick pick. I have high hopes for Gautier but I don't see much else in that tier where top contenders have multiple players.
The trick on winning on depth will be grabbing a second 1st this year and nailing both picks next year. We can not under any circumstances change gears and need to continue to establish a bottom of the roster gritty culture where you can plug in a whole top line and have them buy in.

This group may be similar to Hextall's drafts in that right now, only York and Gauthier have top player potential, but there are a number of players who may turn out to be solid depth.

Don't sleep on Kaplan for example, playing very well for an 18-19 year old 3rd rd pick who should fill out to 6'2 210 or so with a solid offensive skill set - but he's unlikely to develop into a lead dog.

But if you build solid young depth, you only need a few top guys to fill out the lineup.

 

[VladDrag]

Does anyone have access to QoT stats for the Flyers FWDS? I’d be interested in seeing that.

Tag me personally next time you want some stats. I’ll send you a PM with evolving hockey stats.

 

[tucson83]

This group may be similar to Hextall's drafts in that right now, only York and Gauthier have top player potential, but there are a number of players who may turn out to be solid depth.

Don't sleep on Kaplan for example, playing very well for an 18-19 year old 3rd rd pick who should fill out to 6'2 210 or so with a solid offensive skill set - but he's unlikely to develop into a lead dog.

But if you build solid young depth, you only need a few top guys to fill out the lineup.

best thing for this team is just trade for top players for the short term if they cant get them in fa. just relying on getting top 5 picks in the draft isnt the way to do it either especially when it's all luck.

 

[Rich Nixon]

The team basically rules at drafting safe 3rd line energy guys who get hurt all the time.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Lol at building great depth before drafting high end talent.

Dogshit franchise. Let it burn.

 

[Beef Invictus]

best thing for this team is just trade for top players for the short term if they cant get them in fa. just relying on getting top 5 picks in the draft isnt the way to do it either especially when it's all luck.

How is that going to work?

 

[deadhead]

I dunno, ask Carolina.

It's really hard to tank a team, one thing to be bad, another to be so putrid that you pick in the top 5 multiple times.
First, we'd have to dump all our young goalies . . .

The alternative is to build up talent depth, then put a package together to land a top young player who a bad team knows they can't get to sign long-term. Like Vegas has done.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I dunno, ask Carolina.

It's really hard to tank a team, one thing to be bad, another to be so putrid that you pick in the top 5 multiple times.
First, we'd have to dump all our young goalies . . .

The alternative is to build up talent depth, then put a package together to land a top young player who a bad team knows they can't get to sign long-term. Like Vegas has done.

We have no assets to trade to make that happen. And Fletcher is complete ass at drafting, while the organization as a whole is complete ass at player development.

The team needs years to heal from Fletcher before it can even begin that process. Minnesota is four years detached from him and they still have a way to go before they've healed his damage and have a chance to consider contending. Fletcher turns teams into smoking craters.

 

[renberg]

So after tonight's game, the club is off until February 6. This would be an ideal time to shake up the roster by moving out some of the trash and giving the new guys some PT with the club. Even if these moves were only internal ones. (Bring up Foerster, Lycksell and/or Desnoyers. We've seen what Brown, Bellows, and MacEwan have to offer-nothing except for getting whipped in needless bouts. Personally, I'm also for bringing in Attard and sending TDA down; nothing to lose overall in that exchange.) What are the odds that this happens? I'm going for zero. Too much work for this FO.

 

[Rich Nixon]

So after tonight's game, the club is off until February 6. This would be an ideal time to shake up the roster by moving out some of the trash and giving the new guys some PT with the club. Even if these moves were only internal ones. (Bring up Foerster, Lycksell and/or Desnoyers. We've seen what Brown, Bellows, and MacEwan have to offer-nothing except for getting whipped in needless bouts. Personally, I'm also for bringing in Attard and sending TDA down; nothing to lose overall in that exchange.) What are the odds that this happens? I'm going for zero. Too much work for this FO.

Even with an L tonight, they'd need to see about 7 more straight before considering changes.

 

[deadhead]

We have no assets to trade to make that happen. And Fletcher is complete ass at drafting, while the organization as a whole is complete ass at player development.

The team needs years to heal from Fletcher before it can even begin that process. Minnesota is four years detached from him and they still have a way to go before they've healed his damage and have a chance to consider contending. Fletcher turns teams into smoking craters.

As usual, BS.
Minnesota crashed because of the guy who replaced Fletcher was so bad he got fired after one year.

So far, it's hard to say whether Fletcher's drafts are good or not in Philly, took 8 years to evaluate Hextall's drafts.
The bolded have the best chance to be NHL starters

York is looking like a potential 1st pair D-man.
Andrae is a top D-man in the SHL at 21.
Brink led the NCAA in scoring as a 20 year old junior.
Attard flashed last year after a solid college career, struggling with learning defensive fundamental but the talent is there
Desnoyers is having a solid season in LHV, two way player with a goal scoring knack
Wisdom has struggled off injury, but has bottom six potentil
Gauthier is off to a good start in college, same with Kaplan.
Foerster, set back by injury, is picking up the pace in LHV.
Kosolov is having a solid season in the KHL.
Samson is raw but has potential down the road as a two way RHD
Kaplan is off to a fine start in college at 18-19.

So while trading a 1st and (2) seconds has hindered drafting, they're not doing a bad job so far with the picks they have.

 

[renberg]

Even with an L tonight, they'd need to see about 7 more straight before considering changes.

That marinating thing is really a slower process than what was originally believed.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

This group may be similar to Hextall's drafts in that right now, only York and Gauthier have top player potential, but there are a number of players who may turn out to be solid depth.

Don't sleep on Kaplan for example, playing very well for an 18-19 year old 3rd rd pick who should fill out to 6'2 210 or so with a solid offensive skill set - but he's unlikely to develop into a lead dog.

But if you build solid young depth, you only need a few top guys to fill out the lineup.

Kaplan is someone I really wanted in the draft, there's alot about his game that can translate well to the pros the swing or miss pick I liked was bump, he has an elite shot, but he's got a lot of work to do every where else

 

[JojoTheWhale]

As usual, BS.
Minnesota crashed because of the guy who replaced Fletcher was so bad he got fired after one year.

Can you please just stop making shit up? I've been trying for years, but I really can't do it much more.

Chuck Fletcher and Brent Flahr shit the bed for 4 years but if you connect the dots, it's actually a phrenological map of the bumps on Paul Holmgren's head. Simultaneously, Paul Fenton, who made 2.5 changes of consequence over ~15 months sunk a franchise.

 

[Rebels57]

Can you please just stop making shit up? I've been trying for years, but I really can't do it much more.

Chuck Fletcher and Brent Flahr shit the bed for 4 years but if you connect the dots, it's actually a phrenological map of the bumps on Paul Holmgren's head. Simultaneously, Paul Fenton, who made 2.5 changes of consequence over ~15 months sunk a franchise.

Can you please feed whoever you're talking about to Ignore Silent? He's hungry.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Can you please just stop making shit up? I've been trying for years, but I really can't do it much more.

Chuck Fletcher and Brent Flahr shit the bed for 4 years but if you connect the dots, it's actually a phrenological map of the bumps on Paul Holmgren's head. Simultaneously, Paul Fenton, who made 2.5 changes of consequence over ~15 months sunk a franchise.

Paul Fenton signed Parise & Suter to those monstrous contracts.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

 

[Beef Invictus]

As usual, BS.
Minnesota crashed because of the guy who replaced Fletcher was so bad he got fired after one year.

So far, it's hard to say whether Fletcher's drafts are good or not in Philly, took 8 years to evaluate Hextall's drafts.
The bolded have the best chance to be NHL starters

York is looking like a potential 1st pair D-man.
Andrae is a top D-man in the SHL at 21.
Brink led the NCAA in scoring as a 20 year old junior.
Attard flashed last year after a solid college career, struggling with learning defensive fundamental but the talent is there
Desnoyers is having a solid season in LHV, two way player with a goal scoring knack
Wisdom has struggled off injury, but has bottom six potentil
Gauthier is off to a good start in college, same with Kaplan.
Foerster, set back by injury, is picking up the pace in LHV.
Kosolov is having a solid season in the KHL.
Samson is raw but has potential down the road as a two way RHD
Kaplan is off to a fine start in college at 18-19.

So while trading a 1st and (2) seconds has hindered drafting, they're not doing a bad job so far with the picks they have.

Buddy, the effects of Fletcher are wrecking their team right this second.

You really don't have defend everything he's ever done.

 

[deadhead]

Can you please just stop making shit up? I've been trying for years, but I really can't do it much more.

Chuck Fletcher and Brent Flahr shit the bed for 4 years but if you connect the dots, it's actually a phrenological map of the bumps on Paul Holmgren's head. Simultaneously, Paul Fenton, who made 2.5 changes of consequence over ~15 months sunk a franchise.

The last two years Fletcher was there, they had 106 and 101 points, lost in the 1st rd both years, but I was told that Toronto losing five straight times in the 1st rd doesn't reflect how good of a team they have.

Yes, he made some bad errors "trying to win now",
2/26/17 Hanzal for a 1st and 2nd
letting Vegas take Tuch in return for a 3rd and protecting veteran forwards

But he left a good if aging team behind him, it wasn't a black hole.
The core of the defense are his players, Zucker got value, and Kaprizov is their best player.

Fenton:
Niederreiter for Rask
Coyle for Donato and a 5th
Grandlund for Fiala was his good move

Guerin trades:
2/20 Zucker (Flahr) for Pitt 2021 1st, Addison
9/20 Staal for Bjugstad
3/22 3rd for Deslauriers
3/22 Kahkonen for Middleton
3/22 2nd for Fleury (and his contract)
6/22 Fiala for Faber and 2022 1st
6/22 5th for Reaves

The one thing that stands out is he's been allowed to move out veterans for picks, and replaced them with low cost free agents to buy time for young players to develop (signed 3 veterans to "block" Middleton and Addison on defense).
That is, "rebulding" not by tearing the team down but by focusing on adding young assets and moving out older veterans.

Did do well signing UFAs so far
2021-22 leading scorers
Kaprizov (Flahr)
Fiala (Fenton trade)
Zuccarello (FA - 2019, 5yr/$30M)
Hartman (FA-2019, 2yr/$3.8M, then 3yr/$5.1m)
Eriksson Ek (Flahr)
Gaudreau (FA-2021, 2yr/$2.4M)
Foligno (Fletcher trade)
Boldy (#12-2019)
Greenway (Flahr)

Brodin (Flahr)
Dumba (Flahr)
Spurgeon (Flahr)
Goligoski (FA-2021, 2yr/$4M)
Kulikov (FA-2021, 2yr/$4.5M)
Merrill (FA-2021, 3yr/$3.6M)

G: Fleury, Talbot

2022-23 changes:
Addison 3rd pair D
Middleton 4th D
Sam Steel C, 1yr/$825
Connor Dewar C 3rd rd 2018 (Fenton/Flahr)

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Unsurprisingly no mention of the Parise or Suter contracts.