2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[Hollywood Cannon]

Or just bad luck, a healthy Couts and everything falls into place.
A healthy Couts and Patrick, and Kevin Hayes has a different address.

Problem is at some point you admit you've been snakebit and stop doubling down and retrench.

Cates isn't a 2C either so no things woudn't just fall into place.

It's ok to admit that the roster construction is dog water.

 

[deadhead]

Cates isn't a 2C either so no things woudn't just fall into place.

It's ok to admit that the roster construction is dog water.

Frost and Cates would be under far less pressure if Couts was centering a true 1st line.
Hayes might still be the 2C if he could be given more sheltered minutes.

Losing Couts is big, he's a true 1C when 100%, Selke winner, solid offensive center in one package.
Funny how soon people forget how good he was.

It'll be interesting to see how he looks if he returns in April.
With JVR gone, I'd expect Frost 2C, Cates 3C and Laughton LW.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Frost and Cates would be under far less pressure if Couts was centering a true 1st line.
Hayes might still be the 2C if he could be given more sheltered minutes.

Losing Couts is big, he's a true 1C when 100%, Selke winner, solid offensive center in one package.
Funny how soon people forget how good he was.

It'll be interesting to see how he looks if he returns in April.
With JVR gone, I'd expect Frost 2C, Cates 3C and Laughton LW.

A roster that is dependent on one player, no matter who it is, is not a well crafted roster.

No one is forgetting how good Couturier was and let's not lose sight of the word "was" there. In order to believe that Couturier is going to come back at this juncture as the same player takes a hell of a lot of hopium and copium.

You're going to be wrong about Frost jumping Cates, fyi.

 

[deadhead]

A roster that is dependent on one player, no matter who it is, is not a well crafted roster.

No one is forgetting how good Couturier was and let's not lose sight of the word "was" there. In order to believe that Couturier is going to come back at this juncture as the same player takes a hell of a lot of hopium and copium.

You're going to be wrong about Frost jumping Cates, fyi.

This team has lacked depth for a decade, it wasn't caused by Fletcher, it wasn't fixed by Fletcher.
I mean Hextall had centers like Filppula and Lehtera.
It's all due to the emphasis on competing in the short-term and relying on patches instead of long-term roster building.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

This team has lacked depth for a decade, it wasn't caused by Fletcher, it wasn't fixed by Fletcher.
I mean Hextall had centers like Filppula and Lehtera.
It's all due to the emphasis on competing in the short-term and relying on patches instead of long-term roster building.

Oh look, more minimization and absolution of Chuck's failures. "Someone else did it so it's not a big deal!"

I don't care about what Ron Hextall did at this juncture but even if I did, the only players worth a damn on this roster sans York were brought in by Hextall. We're four plus years into Fletcher's reign. Stop absolving.

 

[Starat327]

Oh look, more minimization and absolution of Chuck's failures. "Someone else did it so it's not a big deal!"

I don't care about what Ron Hextall did at this juncture but even if I did, the only players worth a damn on this roster sans York were brought in by Hextall. We're four plus years into Fletcher's reign. Stop absolving.

Better idea: Stop responding.

 

[Striiker]

I’m convinced Billy would actually die if he saw a turd go unpolished

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I’m convinced Billy would actually die if he saw a turd go unpolished

The exact ratio and tally will vary based on the source you use, but you can basically ballpark it as somewhere between 2 and 4 teams generate double the threat the Flyers do on the 5v4 PP. DOUBLE.

 

[Rebels57]

The exact ratio and tally will vary based on the source you use, but you can basically ballpark it as somewhere between 2 and 4 teams generate double the threat the Flyers do on the 5v4 PP. DOUBLE.

So hiring a goon that tried to fight one of his players and was then fired before being an anti-vaxxer was not the most intelligent hire?

 

[deadhead]

Oh look, more minimization and absolution of Chuck's failures. "Someone else did it so it's not a big deal!"

I don't care about what Ron Hextall did at this juncture but even if I did, the only players worth a damn on this roster sans York were brought in by Hextall. We're four plus years into Fletcher's reign. Stop absolving.

Not absolving, but the general sense around here is you fire Fletcher, hire a "miracle" GM and everything will be honky dory.

Until the FO is changed to one that embraces a rebuild (not necessarily a tear down, but no more short-term thinking), it won't matter who they hire as GM - because no GM with a lick of sense would take the job.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Better idea: Stop responding.

I need to fulfill a quota to get my $12 salary.

 

[Starat327]

I need to fulfill a quota to get my $12 salary.

there has to be better ways to do this. Post your meals in the menu thread or something.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Not absolving, but the general sense around here is you fire Fletcher, hire a "miracle" GM and everything will be honky dory.

Until the FO is changed to one that embraces a rebuild (not necessarily a tear down, but no more short-term thinking), it won't matter who they hire as GM - because no GM with a lick of sense would take the job.

Yes, absolving.

Literally no one believes that firing Fletcher will fix everything. We have explained our stance countless times. WE want everyone gone and have for years but you know this and have to resort to constant strawman arguments.

Oh wait, the no one believes that statement isn’t true. YOU believe that Torts and Briere will fix everything despite Briere being hand picked by the same morons that have the team in this position.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I’m convinced Billy would actually die if he saw a turd go unpolished

I remember being admonished for questioning his tanking of the SJ PP because he gave a nice lecture once. Apparently a lecture is more important than actual NHL results.

Anyways, the actual NHL results ended up being more relevant. I guess there's more to coaching than fighting players and talking good theory in a vacuum.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Not absolving, but the general sense around here is you fire Fletcher, hire a "miracle" GM and everything will be honky dory.

Until the FO is changed to one that embraces a rebuild (not necessarily a tear down, but no more short-term thinking), it won't matter who they hire as GM - because no GM with a lick of sense would take the job.

So in your mind no GM can do better with the same "circumstances" surrounding Chuck.

Cant draft better, make better trades, make better assessments, , make better hires. Is this what you really believe?

 

[deadhead]

The problem with the PP is talent, I mean they were worse last season with Giroux, because he was all they had.
Nor is Sanheim a solution, watching him, he's almost as bad as Provorov.

TDA and York are actually decent, Hayes is solid on the right board, but right now they're just as mess, especially when it comes to zone entries. Too many kids who lack "shake and bake" and can't force the defense to back up. Teams just line up at the blue line and dare them to try to beat them.

 

[deadhead]

So in your mind no GM can do better with the same "circumstances" surrounding Chuck.

Cant draft better, make better trades, make better assessments, , make better hires. Is this what you really believe?

Would you take this job if you had alternatives with the current FO? Knowing the advisors call the tune?
That you won't be allowed to take a step backwards to fix the roster?
Knowing you're expected to make the playoffs instead of build a team?

Fletcher could have done better, but unless you think another GM was going to pull off miracles, those moves wouldn't have made much difference. So you keep Ghost instead of Risto, you have a 1st and a couple 2nds, but you're still expected to add veteran players up to the cap to try and make the playoffs.

Flyers didn't have tradeable assets to make moves unless you move players like TK or Provorov, and then you have to replace them, so you're just running in place. Ghost had negative value, Voracek had negative value, JVR had negative value due to their contracts.

Fans talk about trading players for picks - uh, that's called a rebuild - and that was what got Hextall fired (along with his personality and failure to find a better goalie). The FO wouldn't have allowed any GM to do that, Holmgren made that clear when Fletcher was hired.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The problem with the PP is talent, I mean they were worse last season with Giroux, because he was all they had.
Nor is Sanheim a solution, watching him, he's almost as bad as Provorov.

TDA and York are actually decent, Hayes is solid on the right board, but right now they're just as mess, especially when it comes to zone entries. Too many kids who lack "shake and bake" and can't force the defense to back up. Teams just line up at the blue line and dare them to try to beat them.

Must go deeper than talent. A less talented Coyotes PP is better.

Coaching matters. Tortorella, who doesn't understand offense, rarely oversees good PPs. Rocky's resume isn't jam-packed with success either. The opposite, actually.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Would you take this job if you had alternatives with the current FO? Knowing the advisors call the tune?
That you won't be allowed to take a step backwards to fix the roster?
Knowing you're expected to make the playoffs instead of build a team?

Fletcher could have done better, but unless you think another GM was going to pull off miracles, those moves wouldn't have made much difference. So you keep Ghost instead of Risto, you have a 1st and a couple 2nds, but you're still expected to add veteran players up to the cap to try and make the playoffs.

Flyers didn't have tradeable assets to make moves unless you move players like TK or Provorov, and then you have to replace them, so you're just running in place. Ghost had negative value, Voracek had negative value, JVR had negative value due to their contracts.

Fans talk about trading players for picks - uh, that's called a rebuild - and that was what got Hextall fired (along with his personality and failure to find a better goalie). The FO wouldn't have allowed any GM to do that, Holmgren made that clear when Fletcher was hired.

I don't understand how the team got into such a dire situation if Fletcher has only made one, maybe two mistakes in 4 years. A GM that error-free should be far better positioned.

Why, you make it sound like he's done a horrible job and shouldn't be absolved of blame at every single turn.

 

[flyerslducks]

It’s almost as if some flyer fans want frost to do bad so they can say "I told you so". So f***ing odd

 

[Striiker]

The exact ratio and tally will vary based on the source you use, but you can basically ballpark it as somewhere between 2 and 4 teams generate double the threat the Flyers do on the 5v4 PP. DOUBLE.

Sean told Bill.

I'm sure he'll recieve a thoughtful response.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Would you take this job if you had alternatives with the current FO? Knowing the advisors call the tune?
That you won't be allowed to take a step backwards to fix the roster?
Knowing you're expected to make the playoffs instead of build a team?

Fletcher could have done better, but unless you think another GM was going to pull off miracles, those moves wouldn't have made much difference. So you keep Ghost instead of Risto, you have a 1st and a couple 2nds, but you're still expected to add veteran players up to the cap to try and make the playoffs.

Flyers didn't have tradeable assets to make moves unless you move players like TK or Provorov, and then you have to replace them, so you're just running in place. Ghost had negative value, Voracek had negative value, JVR had negative value due to their contracts.

Fans talk about trading players for picks - uh, that's called a rebuild - and that was what got Hextall fired (along with his personality and failure to find a better goalie). The FO wouldn't have allowed any GM to do that, Holmgren made that clear when Fletcher was hired.

It was a simple question dead. I have zero doubt others could and would have done a better job.

I do not believe the advisers call the tune. What I believe and has been reported elsewhere is Chuck involves them, then they offer their opinion. They do not seek him out telling him what to do. This is all on Chuck. He has no backbone. He is a fn lackey in the worst way.

Must go deeper than talent. A less talented Coyotes PP is better.

Coaching matters. Tortorella, who doesn't understand offense, rarely oversees good PPs. Rocky's resume isn't jam-packed with success either. The opposite, actually.

Not utilizing what talent you do have properly. Coaching, schemes, usage. Many reasons.

 

[Striiker]

I remember being admonished for questioning his tanking of the SJ PP because he gave a nice lecture once. Apparently a lecture is more important than actual NHL results.

Anyways, the actual NHL results ended up being more relevant. I guess there's more to coaching than fighting players and talking good theory in a vacuum.

Must be something funny going on here.

Coaches/management can't be wrong, so it must be the players not listening or something.

 

[flyersnorth]

Fletcher could have done better, but unless you think another GM was going to pull off miracles, those moves wouldn't have made much difference.

I would not expect miracles.

I would expect a competent GM who would not make the following moves:

Stewart
Thompson x2,
Braun x2,
Grant,
Deslauriers for 4 years AND A NO TRADE CLAUSE for a 4th liner
Ristolainen for 5 years ($25M) and Ghost, 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, Hagg
DeAngelo for 2 years and 2nd, 3rd, 4th round pick,
Brown
MacEwen

Of the trades that were decent, NONE have worked out -

Niskanen
Ellis
Atkinson

You do not need a miracle worker to outperform Fletcher. You simply need a competent GM.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It was a simple question dead. I have zero doubt others could and would have done a better job.

I do not believe the advisers call the tune. What I believe and has been reported elsewhere is Chuck involves them, then they offer their opinion. They do not seek him out telling him what to do. This is all on Chuck. He has no backbone. He is a fn lackey in the worst way.


Not utilizing what talent you do have properly. Coaching, schemes, usage. Many reasons.

I am pretty sure you've objected to this before, but it ties to his laziness. Why figure out a problem yourself when you can just solicit solutions from someone else and then pursue those? Far easier. Unfortunately that means he's calling Lombardi and Clarke for ideas. Always taking the easiest paths of least resistance.