2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

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VladDrag

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Feb 6, 2018
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Philly gets a young top 4 defender signed long term to a fair contract (who I would argue the most valuable asset in the trade imo) as well as a young forward who could use a change of scenery. Hayes has clearly been on the outside with Torts and at full value would be an extremely difficult contract to move with receiving much if any value. York and Macewan are used to balance out the value difference. If York is viewed as too valuable in this scenario a different defender could be used to help bridge the value.
But the Flyers don't need a mid-20's defender who will not be useful by the time this team is ready to compete. That's not a disrespect to Girard. The Flyers just aren't there. The timeline doesn't work. It's a bunch of pieces that just don't make sense for the Flyers and where they are.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Flyers are on a 76 point pace which, based on last year's standings, would put them at 10th or 11th overall pick.

Not ideal.
They're 7th in P%. I think that's a fair reflection of the team so far, but it the goaltending cools off they could finish as low as 4th or 5th overall.

 

freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,561
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Vancouver
I don't understand. What is so taboo about adopting a strategy that is aimed at making this team competitive for the long run, and executing on it?

The problem, I would guess, is their perspective on "rebuilding," and that it's for losers.

Well, if the shoe fits....
How are you supposed to have moral victories if you are rebuilding?

No, better to waste assets, max cap, and sign 50 contracts every year for a decade while being a playoff tweener. This is the future contrarians and the front office want, and anything else is stupid.
 

Rebels57

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Sep 28, 2014
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They're 7th in P%. I think that's a fair reflection of the team so far, but it the goaltending cools off they could finish as low as 4th or 5th overall.


7th is exactly where I predicted them to finish thanks to Torts getting them to grind out undeserved wins..but I think they tumble a few spots lower if they start moving out pieces.
 

ajgoal

Almost always never serious
Jun 29, 2015
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7th is exactly where I predicted them to finish thanks to Torts getting them to grind out undeserved wins..but I think they tumble a few spots lower if they start moving out pieces.
I disagree. Beyond JVR, they're looking at offseason at best trades or ones where they might actually improve the team by subtraction.
 

MacDonald4MVP

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May 7, 2016
10,217
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#Flyerstypical..

time to pick the yearly draft selection that makes no NHL difference to the team at all..


yah us...
Not true they turned 11th overall into Fisto who you might argue is the most impactful player flyers have play in NHL night in and night out. Who says Fletcher won't go back to the same well?
 
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MacDonald4MVP

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May 7, 2016
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I disagree. Beyond JVR, they're looking at offseason at best trades or ones where they might actually improve the team by subtraction.
That's what we've been told after Weise, Nate dog and so on and how we will get to see kids like NAK, Lindblom or Laczynski fill out those spots, yet here we are.
 
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ajgoal

Almost always never serious
Jun 29, 2015
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That's what we've been told after Weise, Nate dog and so on and how we will get to see kids like NAK, Lindblom or Laczynski fill out those spots, yet here we are.
My point is that they're not likely to get much worse as any players sans JVR that they really want to get rid of that might make the team worse (Hayes, Provorov, etc) are on long term deals that generally makes them hard to trade in season. Any guys like Braun, Seeler, Brown, MacEwen... that they could trade (but probably won't) would make the team better. So the hope that they'll trade some guys off and fall in the standings is unlikely IMO.
 
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Magua

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Apr 25, 2016
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Charlie had an article dedicated mostly to Frost today, and his major takeaway was that he IS better against worse teams (and he defined it as bottom 12!) than top teams. The Flyers are a bad all-around team -- isn't that a no shit Sherlock observation? Frost even scores more against top 10 teams than middle 10 teams, since this is so small sample. The entire team does worse against top teams. That's what bad teams do! This Frost isolating is plain goofy.

Then you have SanFilippo (in his Provorov article today) saying: "The problem is, while many of the other young Flyers have seemed to show real growth playing in Torts’ structured system, Frost has had zero consistency. He has half a season to figure it out. I’m not confident he gets there." That zero consistency this season is heavily influenced by the team's usage of him early. How can you ignore that part? I guess the same way you can ignore the visible skill growth he's indeed showing the last 4-6 weeks, 1 fresh game aside (because good players NEVER have bad games). Cherry on top: why does no one want to acknowledge he's been respectable defensively? Because it makes the narrative harder.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
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It's been obvious from the start that Frost was never going to get fair treatment or honest evaluations from this garbage franchise or their drooling shills.

He's played well, done exactly what was asked of him, and produces when given a chance. Still only gets criticisms, while clearly inferior teammates are bulletproof and exclusively praised.

Hard to imagine a less likable group of idiots than the Flyers staff and media. Hopefully they all get what they deserve.
 

TB87

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
May 30, 2018
6,200
17,341
ASF is one of the surface-level “analysts” on the Flyers beat. He only notices (and pontificates when he does) when “big” things happen. There’s never any takeaway about the “why” or “how” a player is playing well (or not). It’s just: this happened. He and his podcast partner despise Frost so much. A lot of the Flyers beats do. Its so very weird.

An NHL player had an uncharacteristically bad game with some big mistakes that ended up in the net? Throw him in the trash cuz he. Is. Done.
 

FlyerNutter

In the forest, a man learns what it means to live
Jun 22, 2018
12,935
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Winnipeg
ASF is one of the surface-level “analysts” on the Flyers beat. He only notices (and pontificates when he does) when “big” things happen. There’s never any takeaway about the “why” or “how” a player is playing well (or not). It’s just: this happened. He and his podcast partner despise Frost so much. A lot of the Flyers beats do. Its so very weird.

An NHL player had an uncharacteristically bad game with some big mistakes that ended up in the net? Throw him in the trash cuz he. Is. Done.

I like ASF because he was one of the few willing to call them out earlier.

He’s got his faults though. It took him far too long to realize they need a ground up rebuild, and he’s firmly in the club that thinks Torts is Moses about to lead them out of the sand.
 

Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
38,674
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Huron of the Lakes
ASF is one of the surface-level “analysts” on the Flyers beat. He only notices (and pontificates when he does) when “big” things happen. There’s never any takeaway about the “why” or “how” a player is playing well (or not). It’s just: this happened. He and his podcast partner despise Frost so much. A lot of the Flyers beats do. Its so very weird.

An NHL player had an uncharacteristically bad game with some big mistakes that ended up in the net? Throw him in the trash cuz he. Is. Done.

I said this the other day, but let's say he doesn't morph into a superstar in the back half of the season (a likely outcome). It's a lot of the same to an unbiased eye: growing offensive confidence, nice inconsistent production, intelligent subtleties, a sense that he's an NHL player.......but not this obvious top 6 stud. Like what are these people setting up as "getting there"?

Tage Thompson had 14 points in 38 games at age 23, after 21 points in 107 games prior. Boy, does Buffalo regret not shipping him for slop. Plenty of guys come into their own at age ~24+. Karlsson, Terry, Marchessault, Bennett, Verhaeghe, Bunting, Gourde, Hagel, Bjorkstrand, Burakovsky, Tatar, Eriksson Ek, Nichushkin. It's an endless list! Many of these players were sold low on, or just needed regular minutes. And Frost missed 1 entire year. He's an RFA; he'd be cheap to re-sign; this team is not going to be remotely competitive so ice time is readily available. Frost is the exact natural talent + statistical intrigue that a 2nd team feasts upon.

Why is Frost the only player on the team and in the league who, after 3 pro years, MUST be arbitrarily "there"? The Flyers traded the equivalent of a top 10 1st for a 27 year old defender they wanted to "develop." You wonder why this team stinks at developing and keeping young talent.
 

Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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Charlie had an article dedicated mostly to Frost today, and his major takeaway was that he IS better against worse teams (and he defined it as bottom 12!) than top teams. The Flyers are a bad all-around team -- isn't that a no shit Sherlock observation? Frost even scores more against top 10 teams than middle 10 teams, since this is so small sample. The entire team does worse against top teams. That's what bad teams do! This Frost isolating is plain goofy.

Then you have SanFilippo (in his Provorov article today) saying: "The problem is, while many of the other young Flyers have seemed to show real growth playing in Torts’ structured system, Frost has had zero consistency. He has half a season to figure it out. I’m not confident he gets there." That zero consistency this season is heavily influenced by the team's usage of him early. How can you ignore that part? I guess the same way you can ignore the visible skill growth he's indeed showing the last 4-6 weeks, 1 fresh game aside (because good players NEVER have bad games). Cherry on top: why does no one want to acknowledge he's been respectable defensively? Because it makes the narrative harder.

The team and its supporters tend to be desperate to get rid of him.
 
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