2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[Magua]

Even with Hart. How much would he likely yield in a trade this summer? Maybe a like a late first plus maybe like a B level pick/prospect? There isn’t really a robust trade market for goaltending.

I doubt Ersson would have enough sample to make them comfortable parting with Hart this summer & like you said I doubt that sample is enough to likely yield more than like a third rounder.

I was kind of laughing during that segment because they were talking trades & then they wandered off into the Canadian WJC scandal.

But to me the biggest more realistic takeaway is that Hart is up for a new deal in the summer of 2024. In theory Ersson if he gets games in this season & next that sample might be enough to give an idea of what you have. So you don’t have to hand Hart a blank check. Now this is the Flyers & they might just end up handing Hart the blank check regardless because that’s the path of least resistance & we can’t let our “franchise goalie” go.

They’re just dancing around the obvious Provorov big trade. No rebuild starts without it.

 

[renberg]

They’re just dancing around the obvious Provorov big trade. No rebuild starts without it.

I think that they want a young center who could be a one C for Provorov. Lafreniere + for Provorov or an extended Horvat?

 

[TB87]

The other scenario was mentioned by ASF on the latest Snow the Goalie. He thinks the Flyers might trade one of their goalies for assets once they’ve evaluated what they have. Sandstrom wouldnt return very much, but Hart or Ersson would.

When presented with an obvious choice (trading Provorov) they inevitably take the alternative path where the guy from Pet Cemetery says “Don’t go down that road.” Their stupidity is boundless.

 

[Magua]

I think that they want a young center who could be a one C for Provorov. Lafreniere + for Provorov or an extended Horvat?

If they trade Provorov for an older player, in want of an 8 year $8MM+ AAV, I'd say that's as much proof as it gets they're no point of return delusional in avoiding a proper rebuild. Horvart isn't even a 1C; he's a career 2C shooting 24%. Between their other cap commitments, no high end talent, etc., I'd be horrified. And I'm sure Chuck Fletcher would do it!

I doubt Lafreniere is traded in division, and I have no idea if that's the avenue I'd pursue anyway. The only Provorov trade that makes any darned sense is for a high 2023 1st, or a mid/late 1st + prospect. The first thing this organization needs to do is realize their window is about 3 miles away.

 

[Starat327]

If they trade Provorov for an older player, in want of an 8 year $8MM+ AAV, I'd say that's as much proof as it gets they're no point of return delusional in avoiding a proper rebuild. Horvart isn't even a 1C; he's a career 2C shooting 24%. Between their other cap commitments, no high end talent, etc., I'd be horrified. And I'm sure Chuck Fletcher would do it!

I doubt Lafreniere is traded in division, and I have no idea if that's the avenue I'd pursue anyway. The only Provorov trade that makes any darned sense is for a high 2023 1st, or a mid/late 1st + prospect. The first thing this organization needs to do is realize their window is about 3 miles away.

A 23 1st means nothing if the person spending it is thr same person in charge right now, though.

I'm sure that went without saying in your post, but I felt the need to clarify.

 

[Striiker]

A 23 1st means nothing if the person spending it is thr same person in charge right now, though.

I'm sure that went without saying in your post, but I felt the need to clarify.

He already spent a 13th overall on Risto and a 5th overall on Hayes 2.0 smh

If he's still here we could have 32 picks in the first round and we'd still end up with trash.

 

[Starat327]

He already spent a 13th overall on Risto and a 5th overall on Hayes 2.0 smh

If he's still here we could have 32 picks in the first round and we'd still end up with trash.

See, this is where you're wrong.

Hayes is at least a center.

 

[Striiker]

See, this is where you're wrong.

Hayes is at least a center.

Is he?

 

[Starat327]

Is he?

Oh cool, he isn't anymore. When did that happen?

I amend my previous statement to: Hayes played a lot of games at Center in the NHL at least. Gauthier won't.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Oh cool, he isn't anymore. When did that happen?

I amend my previous statement to: Hayes played a lot of games at Center in the NHL at least. Gauthier won't.

He’s a scoring winger now, teams will be knocking down the door to acquire him.

This is an actual take.

 

[Starat327]

He’s a scoring winger now, teams will be knocking down the door to acquire him.

This is an actual take.

Lol. I'm so glad I'm checked out of this abomination of a team, if you can call it that.

 

[Striiker]

Oh cool, he isn't anymore. When did that happen?

I amend my previous statement to: Hayes played a lot of games at Center in the NHL at least. Gauthier won't.

Soon after he was healthy scratched for being a lazy dumpster fire.

He’s been at wing for quite a while now. The guy we HAD TO SIGN because of our (fake) desperate need for a 2C.

 

[Beef Invictus]

He’s a scoring winger now

Is he though

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Is he though

Depends who you ask.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I had a Hayes move to wing later in his contract built into my expectations for him, but that also involved Couturier having a complete and functioning spinal column and Patrick having a complete and functioning neural network. I could choke down an overpriced winger in that situation.

In the current situation and with him being an obnoxious diva, not so great and enjoyable

 

[trostol]

i can totally see them trading Hart and him being a perennial pick for the Vezina

 

[Flyerfan4life]

i can totally see them trading Hart and him being a perennial pick for the Vezina

ohhhh its gunna happen

 

[renberg]

ohhhh its gunna happen

Let’s just wait until Ersson shows that he’s a legitimate starter. Beating three California dogs doesn’t show much.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

Let’s just wait until Ersson shows that he’s a legitimate starter. Beating three California dogs doesn’t show much.

We should be trying to be bad and avoid long term monster contacts, which is exactly why Hart should be dumped

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

The first thing this organization needs to do is realize their window is about 3 miles away.

Deady's been saying this for years. I mean years/miles whatever. Who do I call for plagiarism around here?

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Is he though

Well, he IS an All Star, isn't he?

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Even with Hart. How much would he likely yield in a trade this summer? Maybe a like a late first plus maybe like a B level pick/prospect? There isn’t really a robust trade market for goaltending.

I doubt Ersson would have enough sample to make them comfortable parting with Hart this summer & like you said I doubt that sample is enough to likely yield more than like a third rounder.

I was kind of laughing during that segment because they were talking trades & then they wandered off into the Canadian WJC scandal.

But to me the biggest more realistic takeaway is that Hart is up for a new deal in the summer of 2024. In theory Ersson if he gets games in this season & next that sample might be enough to give an idea of what you have. So you don’t have to hand Hart a blank check. Now this is the Flyers & they might just end up handing Hart the blank check regardless because that’s the path of least resistance & we can’t let our “franchise goalie” go.

Then add in long term deals for TK and Ivan that will be needed in 2025; already have Sanheim and Couturier long term. God only knows what they do with Tony D. Frost and Tippet will need new deals. Even York to an extent. Stuck in neutral and that is being nice.

They will keep this band of losing players together come hell or high water. Individually they have pieces to move that have real value. They do not want to move said players however, that is the funny part.

 

[ajgoal]

Yes, they can over a short period of time.

The injury occurred on the 23rd. He was placed on the IR on the 28th, which is when your original statements were made. It would take someone that is being intentionally obtuse to believe that he didn’t have a concussion at that point after that many days passed. He cleared the protocol ~ January 1st.

Let’s not forget that you claimed the whole situation was overblown.

Concussion protocol:

If, after the evaluation noted above, the Club Physician determines that the Player is not diagnosed with concussion, the Player may return to play at the Club Physician's discretion. Evolving and delayed-onset symptoms of concussion are well documented and highlight the need to follow-up with a player after a suspected concussion regardless of a negative acute evaluation. Therefore, Club Medical Personnel shall follow-up with the Player 24 hours after an incident where there was a clinical suspicion of concussion to inquire whether any concussion symptoms have subsequently developed.

In situations where a clinical assessment has been conducted and the Club Physician determines that he or she does not have definitive information to either make or exclude a diagnosis of concussion, the diagnosis may be deferred and documented in the SCAT5 App. If a diagnosis of concussion is deferred, the Player shall not be returned to play and a follow-up clinical assessment, which at a minimum should include a complete SCAT5, must be conducted within 24 hours, at which point a definitive diagnosis shall be made or excluded.

....

• Specifically, Players who are diagnosed with a concussion should undergo an initial, brief period of physical and cognitive rest (e.g., 24-48 hours).
• Players can then become gradually and progressively more exposed to activities (a "graded return-to-play progression") that do not provoke cognitive and physical symptoms (i.e., increased activity level should not bring on or worsen symptoms).

An example of a graded return-to-play progression is provided below. Generally, each step should take 24 hours. However, the time frame at each step may vary with Player age, history, etc., and management must be individualized. Club Medical Personnel should monitor progression through the exertional stages as well as continue to consider concurrent morbidities (e.g., migraine, neck, mood, sleep, etc.).

Once a Player diagnosed with concussion is determined by the Club Physician to be free of concussion-related symptoms at rest and upon exertion, the Player shall be referred to the Club's Consulting Neuropsychologist (or, if on the road, a Consulting Neuropsychologist from another team) for a post-concussion evaluation. This evaluation typically occurs prior to the Player engaging in on-ice activity involving controlled body contact, but must occur prior to returning to live game play. At a minimum, the Club's Consulting Neuropsychologist's post-injury evaluation shall consist of a clinical interview, and administration of ImPACT and the NHL Paper and Pencil neuropsychological test battery.

In order to facilitate this evaluation, Club Consulting Neuropsychologists should be advised as soon as a Player is diagnosed with a concussion. Club Consulting Neuropsychologists should be provided with baseline and post-injury SCAT5 data and narratives/reports of the acute medical evaluation, as well as subsequent symptom tracking for review as part of the post-injury assessment.

A Club Physician may request a neuropsychological evaluation prior to full symptom resolution when clinical reasons exist for doing so (e.g., prolonged recovery, complex clinical presentation).

Once complete, the Club Consulting Neuropsychologist shall convey the results of the evaluation to the Club Physician or Club Athletic Trainer (preferably both).

Although neuropsychological test data are very useful in assessing the neurocognitive sequelae of concussion, they should not be used in isolation to make the diagnosis of concussion or as the sole determinant for return-to-play.

Source: NHL concussion evaluation and management protocol for 2022-23 season

Given the length of time Hart was out, it was almost definitely actually a concussion. If he had showed no symptoms, they would have been able to pull him from protocol before the holiday break was over, not keep him in it for another week or so.

 

[VladDrag]

For those without twitter the tweet stated, "John Tortorella on Noah Cates being on the ice for every morning skate: "It pisses me off that he's out on the ice. I'm gonna outlaw those skates because now it's routine for those guys and it's just so wrong."

Torts is mad because some of the guys go out on the morning stake prior to games, and I understand it. There might be something to it. Cates really hasn't been popping like he was last year, and that may just be related to the position that he's been thrust into. But it also may be overtraining/overworking as well. Cates jumped straight into the NHL without any AHL time. His time a college he's only played what, 40 games a season? And it's not the same type of schedule with back to backs, multiple travels etc.

On the other side of that, however, there is literature out there that states that athletic performance is improved if a short 15-30 minute training session is completed ~8 hours beforehand.

 

[Larry44]

Good grief. Val is the future of the Flyers. I have nothing against women executives, far from it. Most of my best bosses have been women, but anyone hired by Scott and Fletcher can't be competent, whatever their gender. #FireThemAll