2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[Striiker]

I mean to me like Frost, Cates, & Tippett are all tracking to be guys who could potentially be useful middle of the lineup guys going forward. They’re all around the same age. They all have shown good, bad, & indifferent at times this year. It just seems like Frost always gets the “but” for any positives & has his flaws picked apart. It just seems like minds were already kind of made up to begin with & anything short of a barrier being completely smashed that wasn’t gonna change.

Obviously Cates & Tippett’s current deals extend into next year where Frost’s don’t. But Frost shouldn’t cost much to extend.

Because Tippett and Cates are the approved stereotypes. Sniper and defensively safe guy.

It’s really just that simple.

 

[deadhead]

The only "but" with Frost was when he was going to get his heat out of his butt and start playing up to his potential.
They've tried to give him a starting job for three years, gets injured, plays meh, finally starting to show something.
No different than Tippett in Florida before they gave up on him.
The luxury of being a bad team is you can be patient with these guys, playoff teams need them to produce right now.

I think they'd LOVE Frost to be a reliable 40 ES point 2C. It would solve a lot of problems.

The excuses are silly, Torts has settled on his top six (until JVR gets traded) and Frost will have every opportunity to nail down a starter's job.
"You win or you die."

 

[Beef Invictus]

The only "but" with Frost was when he was going to get his heat out of his butt and start playing up to his potential.
They've tried to give him a starting job for three years, gets injured, plays meh, finally starting to show something.
No different than Tippett in Florida before they gave up on him.
The luxury of being a bad team is you can be patient with these guys, playoff teams need them to produce right now.

I think they'd LOVE Frost to be a reliable 40 ES point 2C. It would solve a lot of problems.

The excuses are silly, Torts has settled on his top six (until JVR gets traded) and Frost will have every opportunity to nail down a starter's job.
"You win or you die."

The real question was, when would the team let him produce?

 

[usahockey22flyers]

Just spent too much time on those cap websites.

I am literally begging Chuck to move salary and take on a bad contract or two for picks. Begging him.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Quote from the Flyers coach officially confirming Hart had a concussion and was in the protocol.



You, on the next page of the thread:

I said in other post, which you fail to quote, that I did not see where the flyers said he was in concussion protocol. Don't tell part of the story.

What's better, a player who puts up 60 points playing 30 minutes a game, or a player who puts up 60 points playing 15 minutes a game?

60 total point is 60 total points. That's what is judged no?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I said in other post, which you fail to quote, that I did not see where the flyers said he was in concussion protocol. Don't tell part of the story.


60 total point is 60 total points. That's what is judged no?

You have a deleted post (in fairness, it wasn’t deleted by you) right after where you continue down the path of “just because he’s in the concussion protocol doesn’t mean he has a concussion.”

Don’t tell part of the story.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I said in other post, which you fail to quote, that I did not see where the flyers said he was in concussion protocol. Don't tell part of the story.


60 total point is 60 total points. That's what is judged no?

No. Not at all. A player who produces the same amount of points in half the time is pretty blatantly better. I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

No. Not at all. A player who produces the same amount of points in half the time is pretty blatantly better. I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

Tale as old as time.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

You have a deleted post (in fairness, it wasn’t deleted by you) right after where you continue down the path of “just because he’s in the concussion protocol doesn’t mean he has a concussion.”

Don’t tell part of the story.

Correct it doesn't. It is a precaution. A player may or may not have one.

 

[Striiker]

LOL WHAT

 

[blackjackmulligan]

No. Not at all. A player who produces the same amount of points in half the time is pretty blatantly better. I think you're being deliberately obtuse.

I am not at all. End of the day the 60 total points is the same number.

Next topic. What would you think if Briere wants Chuck to stay on as GM for another year plus because he feels he isnt ready yet to be GM.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Correct it doesn't. It is a precaution. A player may or may not have one.

So once again you are being intentionally obtuse for confrontational reasons.

Good talk.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

So once again you are being intentionally obtuse for confrontational reasons.

Good talk.

No I am no in any way. Can A player can be in concussion protocol without a concussion?Is it used as a precaution? If he cant then I stand corrected.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

No I am no in any way. Can A player can be in concussion protocol without a concussion?Is it used as a precaution? If he cant then I stand corrected.

Yes, they can over a short period of time.

The injury occurred on the 23rd. He was placed on the IR on the 28th, which is when your original statements were made. It would take someone that is being intentionally obtuse to believe that he didn’t have a concussion at that point after that many days passed. He cleared the protocol ~ January 1st.

Let’s not forget that you claimed the whole situation was overblown.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It was said he had a mild concussion.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Yes, they can over a short period of time.

The injury occurred on the 23rd. He was placed on the IR on the 28th, which is when your original statements were made. It would take someone that is being intentionally obtuse to believe that he didn’t have a concussion at that point after that many days passed. He cleared the protocol ~ January 1st.

Let’s not forget that you claimed the whole situation was overblown.

Thanks for the clarification. No obtuse here. Did the Flyers or Hart ever confirm he was concussed? edit: post above said they did.

Yes I did say it was overblown.What is the big deal?

 

[Beef Invictus]

I am not at all. End of the day the 60 total points is the same number.

Next topic. What would you think if Briere wants Chuck to stay on as GM for another year plus because he feels he isnt ready yet to be GM.

But heres the thing: play them both equal ice time and one ends up with something like 120 points. While the other has 60. That's how rates work. You want the player who outscores the team at a higher rate. Not the lower rate. And any team that operates on pure points rather than rates (as the Flyers seem to) is managed incompetently and probably makes a lot of bad moves.

It's always better, always, to have a guy who produces more per minute. This nonsense is how people fell for Ristolainen producing. A lot of it was just brute ice time. Per minute, he was not that good.

Points are not points. Rate of production is key. A player who puts up 82 points in 41 games is more productive than a player who puts up 82 points in 82 games.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

But heres the thing: play them both equal ice time and one ends up with something like 120 points. While the other has 60. That's how rates work.

It's always better, always, to have a guy who produces more per minute. This nonsense is how people fell for Ristolainen producing. A lot of it was just brute ice time. Per minute, he was not that good.

Points are not points. Rate of production is key. A player who puts up 82 points in 41 games is more productive than a player who puts up 82 points in 82 games.

This is just not true and I think you know this. The 15 minute player may be at his best and productive when playing 15 minutes. He plays 20 that production may decease. There is absolutely zero guarantee with more ice time he produces more.

You mention Risto. He is a better player when playing less minutes than opposed to more.

They still finish with the same points. That is what counts. They wont be saying who was more productive they will be saying they are both 60 point players.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is just not true and I think you know this. The 15 minute player may be at his best and productive when playing 15 minutes. He plays 20 that production may decease. There is absolutely zero guarantee with more ice time he produces more.

You mention Risto. He is a better player when paying less minutes than opposed to more.

They still finish with the same points. That is what counts. They wont be saying who was more productive they will be saying they are both 60 point players.

A team that signs based on raw production (like the Flyers) rather than based on rates is a bad team. The good teams keep finding these hidden gems because they look beyond raw production to find the guys scoring at higher rates, and then they scale them up.

The reason these guys end up being a steal is also because guys like Fletcher aren't willing to pay them, but are happy to pay the Ristolainens.

Any competent team and agent values the production rates more than raw totals. Producing more points in time played is better then producing fewer points in that same time. I'd say this is basic math, but I hesitate to call it that. It's just elementary counting.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

A team that signs based on raw production (like the Flyers) rather than based on rates is a bad team. The good teams keep finding these hidden gems because they look beyond raw production to find the guys scoring at higher rates, and then they scale them up.

The reason these guys end up being a steal is also because guys like Fletcher aren't willing to pay them, but are happy to pay the Ristolainens.

Any competent team and agent values the production rates more than raw totals. Producing more points in time played is better then producing fewer points in that same time. I'd say this is basic math, but I hesitate to call it that. It's just elementary counting.

Next topic. What would you think if Briere wants Chuck to stay on as GM for another year plus because he feels he isnt ready yet to be GM.

 

[Striiker]

Guys, making $40 an hour and $20 an hour is actually the exact same thing.

Either way, you're going to eventually earn that $40, even if it takes twice the time. $40 is $40, the rate you make it is irrelevant.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Next topic. What would you think if Briere wants Chuck to stay on as GM for another year plus because he feels he isnt ready yet to be GM.

I assume you get it now.

Briere shouldn't be the GM. He should be tossed out with everyone else, right now. Otherwise it simply doesn't matter. Every arrangement of the same pieces will make the same results.

 

[Young Sandwich]

As a business owner, would you rather hire the employee that takes 40 hours to finish a specific project, or the employee that takes 20 hours to finish the same exact project? It's really not that hard of a concept.

 

[kudymen]

As a business owner, would you rather hire the employee that takes 40 hours to finish a specific project, or the employee that takes 20 hours to finish the same exact project? It's really not that hard of a concept.

Well what if one of them is really hard to work against (tm)?

 

[Chinatown88]

As a business owner, would you rather hire the employee that takes 40 hours to finish a specific project, or the employee that takes 20 hours to finish the same exact project? It's really not that hard of a concept.

As an avid enjoyer of Lil Beef shenanigans against Beef. Would I rather Lil Beef be super efficient in tormenting her dad? Or would I rather Lil Beef be inefficient and drag out the torment? Tough decisions.