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2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

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Beef Invictus said:
It's a silly line to draw. They weren't suddenly a different team in game 11. It's all the same team.
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I'm not sure if you know this or not, but the Flyers basically won the 2020 Stanley Cup because they beat all the high ranked teams in the round Robin. If we ignore everything that came after with unfavorable results, the Flyers are champs.
 
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Striiker said:
For the whole year

Frost: 9.21 p/60
Cates 3.97 p/60

Frost is still completely dominating the head to head over the larger sample.
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Why always comparing those 2? Isn't that what one would expect from a hyped up stud junior player 1st rd pick over a 5th rd pick? Why is this so shocking?

Hopefully Frost agent uses that pp/60 in contract negotiations.
 
blackjackmulligan said:
Sure fire Flyers hall of fame player he played against them more often.
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blackjackmulligan said:
Love Morgan Frost. Gonna use 2023 as a stepping stone to become that long coveted #1 center.
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blackjackmulligan said:
Why always comparing those 2? Isn't that what one would expect from a hyped up stud junior player 1st rd pick over a 5th rd pick? Why is this so shocking?

Hopefully Frost agent uses that pp/60 in contract negotiations.
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Oh yeah you're mad he's proving you wrong
 
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Beef Invictus said:
It's a silly line to draw. They weren't suddenly a different team in game 11. It's all the same team.
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If you look at team stats, there's an obvious inflection point at game 11, which is not surprising, they were playing a new scheme, lines were being shuffled, and some players were injured. Took time to both become accustomed to a different style of play and different roles.

It's not like they became a great team, but they stopped being a putrid team carried by great goaltending - which everyone noted at that time, so it's not like I just discovered this.

As far as Cates, he's not a top 6 center, he has no business being matched up against top lines, but there aren't a lot of good alternatives this season. However, he's shown enough to be a viable 3C down the road as a defensive specialist, a Pageau type. Though he's probably good enough to be a top 6 LW. Shows what adding a couple top six forwards could do for slotting other players in situations more conducive to their talent level.

Nor is Frost a top 6 center right now, he's improved but most of his points have come against defensive deficient teams - which isn't surprising, he's just a better player with space to work, and he's still learning how to generate space against better defenders. That's something G could do instinctively, Frost is still a work in progress.
 
As far as Hayes, he seems to have settled in at LW, and has become a very good PP facilitator from the right board.
He's holding the puck less and passing much better.
Is he overpaid? Well, he makes the same money as JVR and is looking as good.
He's on a 20 goal, 70 point pace.

Note he's making Laughton look better, Laughton isn't a playmaker at center, but having a LW who can pass and a RW who can push the puck up the ice takes a lot of responsibility off his shoulders - the right chemistry can make a line work or the lack of such can expose deficiencies.
 
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Magua said:
Noah Cates is 24 next month. He was not a mind-blowingly productive college player over 4 years. Calling him a rookie who will figure it out seems awfully facile. If anything, defensive technique follows offense, not the other way around. Defensive stats are volatile as well.

I think most everyone’s expectations are Cates is a versatile bottom 6 piece who can be a high IQ, defensive forechecking 3rd forward with skilled players, as needed. Like Raffl, with worse skating but likely higher skill. It’s the team that has chosen to stamp “CENTER” on his forehead, and play him outside his comfort zone (negating key strengths) in gigantic offensive minutes where being low event and 5th percentile offensively sort of matters.
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You can tell people on here have absolutely no clue . People claiming that maybe Cates low scoring on Minn D was cause they played a defensive type of hockey . Cates did not go in as a true freshman and stayed till his draft plus 5 season . He was 3rd 4th 5th or 6th in scoring on his team every year getting top pp time and top mins . Heck his brother Jackson out scored him . But ya Tort's is going to unlock his secret scoring ability .

Cates is exactly as how you have described him above and anybody who has watched him over the last 5 years "should" be able to figure that out , but here we are .
 
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wasup said:
You can tell people on here have absolutely no clue . People claiming that maybe Cates low scoring on Minn D was cause they played a defensive type of hockey . Cates did not go in as a true freshman and stayed till his draft plus 5 season . He was 3rd 4th 5th or 6th in scoring on his team every year getting top pp time and top mins . Heck his brother Jackson out scored him . But ya Tort's is going to unlock his secret scoring ability .

Cates is exactly as how you have described him above and anybody who has watched him over the last 5 years "should" be able to figure that out , but here we are .
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Offensive production/primary line driving has never been his thing. I don’t know where this “Torts is an offensive savant POV” is coming from but it’s clear that whoever has this belief has never watched Torts hockey for more than a game or 2 at a time prior to him coaching the Flyers. Cates will score more on the wing (where he has played for a very long time). Will it be significantly more than at C? No. However, it’ll at least be more than what he is producing as a C (with good quality teammates). Playing him at C blunts/diminishes his skillset. The Flyers are morons and everyone needs to be fired. For this and many other sins over the past decade(ish).
 
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Curufinwe said:
Somehow Farabee is still yet to score a PP point, or a SH point. All 21 of his points are at ES.
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I've given up on having thought about Farabee. He seems to always be doing something that defies reason while producing.

It no longer matters. He's always producing and I'll leave it at that. Just enjoy it, and all.
 
wasup said:
You can tell people on here have absolutely no clue . People claiming that maybe Cates low scoring on Minn D was cause they played a defensive type of hockey . Cates did not go in as a true freshman and stayed till his draft plus 5 season . He was 3rd 4th 5th or 6th in scoring on his team every year getting top pp time and top mins . Heck his brother Jackson out scored him . But ya Tort's is going to unlock his secret scoring ability .

Cates is exactly as how you have described him above and anybody who has watched him over the last 5 years "should" be able to figure that out , but here we are .
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Yet peeps complaining about his point totals.

Beef Invictus said:
Top 6 centers aren't busts, are they? Because that's the level he's playing at. With middle six center as the floor so far.
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He is a top 6 center on this team by default at the current time. Just like cates is at the moment.
 
Beef Invictus said:
Frost produces to fit the role. Cates doesn't.

Cates is what you're always portrayed Frost to be, actually.
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So Frost produces at a 2nd line center clip? What metrics are you using to determine that?

Then he will be in line for a big pay raise no? Maybe the Hayes special.

Cates and Frost have similar point totals . Neither are top 6 centers.
 
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