2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[deadhead]

The irony is rich. $50 million rich. As per usual with this franchise in the Fletcher years, every decision they make contradicts the last decision or the last quote. It's a jaw dropping lack of consistency. Hayes was an essential free agent center, a PKing dynamo, the nucleus of the new culture and core (Giroux, Voracek, Ghost = BAD), a leader with an 'A' on his jersey. Now, on pace for 70 points, he's not a center, doesn't PK, and so corrosive to the locker room they need to buy him out urgently.

Hayes was none of those things. What he was what you do when the guy who hired you tells you to "win now" after firing your predecessor for not winning, the top young center you inherited turns out to be damaged goods, and the other FA centers had no interest in coming to Philly (Pavelski and Duchene).

Yandle, Brassard had played for AV in NY, this wasn't Hayes' buddies, this was AV wanting HIS players.

And they hired AV b/c Holmgren made it clear he wanted a "name" HC after Berube and Haskol, they tried for Q, AV was the consolation prize.

 

[renberg]

Why would a dino like Hayes? He's an actual lazy player which is what dinos hates. Except usually they are net positive players and they confuse skill with laziness. Hayes is actually lazy and his skills are limited

He’s got what Flahr loves-SIZE

 

[BringBackHakstol]

It's funny how any good player Fletcher doesn't get is because this guy has inside info that they would never come here no matter what

 

[deadhead]

It's funny how any good player Fletcher doesn't get is because this guy has inside info that they would never come here no matter what

No, it's because the Flyers by 2019 were not a premier destination anymore, they hadn't got past the first round since 2012, they could no longer outspend the competition, the climate is meh and it ain't NYC.

Flyer fans are living in the past if they think the Flyers have first dibs on free agents anymore.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

He’s got what Flahr loves-SIZE

Flahr had a fever dream while passing out in a diabetic coma from diet coke and stomboli, confused the family dog licking his face to be the next marquee player

 

[Adam Warlock]

Kings fan coming in peace, looking to get an idea from the Flyers faithful what the ask would be on a number of players (in general terms, not from Kings)

Provorov
Konecny
Laughton
TDA
JVR

Also - reading the notes, sounds like most would be on board with moving TDA. Given the position they are in, would something around TDA to Ottawa in turn for taking back Zaitsev++ be a move that should be explored. Its said Ottawa is willing to add a high draft pick/prospect, which should add a nice package given they are looking for a RHD and TDA has positive value.

In terms of Hayes, with some level of retention Im sure there would be multiple teams interested, most likely Colorado and Boston. Hayes being a Boston boy would have appeal, maybe taking back Craig Smith (UFA) along with some retention makes the trade offer a return that helps the retool.

Just a couple outsider thoughts - generally interested to hear the values expected. Thanks

Provy and TK would need to be 2023 1st, a young player or prospect with top 6 or top 4 potential, and a 3rd asset of a B prospect or 2nd or 3rd rounder.

Laughton would take at least a 1st bc theres no reason to trade him.

JVR id ask for a 1st in an effort for a deadline overpay. GMs love them some vet presence.

 

[Magua]

Hayes was none of those things.

The team thought he was all those things. That’s undeniable. He was the piece they viewed as putting them over the hump. And Tortorella just this summer said he was most excited to work with Hayes — “there’s more in there” — surely after discussions with management. He got his hands on him, realized there was not in fact more in there, Hayes is sulking, and now suddenly it’s a narrative flip flop. Could it be because it reflects poorly on Chuckles?

 

[BrindamoursNose]

You're being far too kind. When it comes to sports, there really aren't that many of these inflection points where we definitively know. The difference between overwhelmingly likely and immutable is a chasm. This is the latter.

It's the easy solution you can compartmentalize. You can take every mistake in the world that adds up over years and gift-wrap it as the bold new solution. Those moves that don't matter never reach an event horizon if you find a new scapegoat every few years.

It's the cowardly, egotistical way out. I can tell because I'm so unbelievably intelligent that I can decipher locker room dynamics from scraps of information like between period interviews. I know whether a player is in shape. I know who works hard. If you set out to find signs of something, there's so much coverage now that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. No scope. No big picture. If it was false, I couldn't make this checklist.

It's unpleasantness by design. The clearest, brightest sign you can possibly have within the sports umbrella to move on with your life. Whatever's on the other end of it will never, ever make your life better. Run screaming and thank whatever higher power you believe in that someone was kind enough to tell you instead of making you do the leg work of discovery.

It's ok to say you don't know and leave it at that. But it takes the tiniest shred of humility.

Eat at Arby's.

You certainly have the meats

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Hayes was none of those things. What he was what you do when the guy who hired you tells you to "win now" after firing your predecessor for not winning, the top young center you inherited turns out to be damaged goods, and the other FA centers had no interest in coming to Philly (Pavelski and Duchene).

Yandle, Brassard had played for AV in NY, this wasn't Hayes' buddies, this was AV wanting HIS players.

And they hired AV b/c Holmgren made it clear he wanted a "name" HC after Berube and Haskol, they tried for Q, AV was the consolation prize.

Utter. Bullshit.

Hayes was given the keys to the kingdom by the franchise and denying that is just more fantasy bullshit.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You certainly have the meats

I sure do. My wife made chicken sauce piquant and some Cajun cheesy spoon bread and I'm in New Orleans heaven.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I like how it’s Holmgren specifically that made Fletcher hire AV. I don’t discount the notion the team in part hired AV to get their big name splash quota. But I’d imagine that was collective effort which didn’t have Fletcher being handed a coach against his will like it was reported this time with Tortorella.

 

[Striiker]

You're being far too kind. When it comes to sports, there really aren't that many of these inflection points where we definitively know. The difference between overwhelmingly likely and immutable is a chasm. This is the latter.

It's the easy solution you can compartmentalize. You can take every mistake in the world that adds up over years and gift-wrap it as the bold new solution. Those moves that don't matter never reach an event horizon if you find a new scapegoat every few years.

It's the cowardly, egotistical way out. I can tell because I'm so unbelievably intelligent that I can decipher locker room dynamics from scraps of information like between period interviews. I know whether a player is in shape. I know who works hard. If you set out to find signs of something, there's so much coverage now that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. No scope. No big picture. If it was false, I couldn't make this checklist.

It's unpleasantness by design. The clearest, brightest sign you can possibly have within the sports umbrella to move on with your life. Whatever's on the other end of it will never, ever make your life better. Run screaming and thank whatever higher power you believe in that someone was kind enough to tell you instead of making you do the leg work of discovery.

It's ok to say you don't know and leave it at that. But it takes the tiniest shred of humility.

Eat at Arby's.

Arbys gyros are legit.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I don’t know or care which particular stooge made them do it. Either they clean house or they don’t. That’s all I need to know. Whoever is making the decisions will either see the danger of letting it fester or not.

 

[FlyerNutter]

You're being far too kind. When it comes to sports, there really aren't that many of these inflection points where we definitively know. The difference between overwhelmingly likely and immutable is a chasm. This is the latter.

It's the easy solution you can compartmentalize. You can take every mistake in the world that adds up over years and gift-wrap it as the bold new solution. Those moves that don't matter never reach an event horizon if you find a new scapegoat every few years.

It's the cowardly, egotistical way out. I can tell because I'm so unbelievably intelligent that I can decipher locker room dynamics from scraps of information like between period interviews. I know whether a player is in shape. I know who works hard. If you set out to find signs of something, there's so much coverage now that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. No scope. No big picture. If it was false, I couldn't make this checklist.

It's unpleasantness by design. The clearest, brightest sign you can possibly have within the sports umbrella to move on with your life. Whatever's on the other end of it will never, ever make your life better. Run screaming and thank whatever higher power you believe in that someone was kind enough to tell you instead of making you do the leg work of discovery.

It's ok to say you don't know and leave it at that. But it takes the tiniest shred of humility.

Eat at Arby's.

You f***ed your wife on the first date didn't you.

God damn Shakespeare

 

[Chinatown88]

I don’t know or care which particular stooge made them do it. Either they clean house or they don’t. That’s all I need to know. Whoever is making the decisions will either see the danger of letting it fester or not.

 

[wankstifier]

When will dear Charles Fletcher grow up to be a big boy with accountability?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

When will dear Charles Fletcher grow up to be a big boy with accountability?

Him apparently being an ISIS like hostage is the story of his life.

 

[deadhead]

The team thought he was all those things. That’s undeniable. He was the piece they viewed as putting them over the hump. And Tortorella just this summer said he was most excited to work with Hayes — “there’s more in there” — surely after discussions with management. He got his hands on him, realized there was not in fact more in there, Hayes is sulking, and now suddenly it’s a narrative flip flop.

What other option did they have if they were going to compete in 2019?

They had no centers after Couts, unless they move G back to center, which means two mediocre top lines, with rookie Farabee as the 2LW. Raffl was your other LW (Lindblom didn't emerge until the spring).

Now whether, once they learned Patrick was kaput, they should have tried to compete is another story, but Holmgren insisted on being competitive (he was the VP, and Scott parroted him).

Once Holmgren decided the rebuild was over, even though only a few young players had emerged, TK, Provorov and Sanheim, with Farabee as a rookie, Frost clearly not ready, Lindblom had just come over from the SHL, Vorobyev, Bunnaman and Twarynski AHL plus talents at best. Ghost was hobbled and Myers promising but inconsistent.

I credit AV with a great job turning this group into a top 8 team before COVID derailed them - but a lot of that was Hart emerging and then playing lights out in the playoffs. But it wasn't sustainable, and once AV realized that, he mailed it in.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Arbys gyros are legit.

I’m not knocking it but I feel like every old dude in my family that completely rails against fast food type of places oddly love that place.

 

[VladDrag]

What game is this

 

[deadhead]

I like how it’s Holmgren specifically that made Fletcher hire AV. I don’t discount the notion the team in part hired AV to get their big name splash quota. But I’d imagine that was collective effort which didn’t have Fletcher being handed a coach against his will like it was reported this time with Tortorella.

Before they hired AV, they had offered to make Q the highest paid HC in the NHL.
It's clear they were going to hire a big name HC, and throw a lot of money at someone.
And it's not like there were a lot of options.
Going with a young, inexperienced HC was probably out of the question after Hakstol.
Because, as we know, they weren't rebuilding.

Philadelphia Flyers to hire three-time Stanley Cup champion Joel Quenneville as coach

Joel Quenneville, a three-time Stanley Cup champion with the Chicago Blackhawks, has been offered head coach position of the Philadelphia Flyers.

www.9news.com

Conflicting reports on whether Flyers will fire Dave Hakstol, hire Joel Quenneville as next head coach

After plenty of speculation, scrutiny and, well, awful hockey, the Flyers finally made the decision to go in a new direction with head coach — to almost no one’s surprise.

www.phillyvoice.com

Joel Quenneville Denies He's Accepted Flyers Job, Report Says

According to a report out of Philadelphia, former Chicago Blackhawks head coach Joel Quenneville has a new job.

www.nbcchicago.com

 

[Chinatown88]

What game is this

Power wash Simulator

 

[Striiker]

I’m not knocking it but I feel like every old dude in my family that completely rails against fast food type of places oddly love that place.

Probably because it's mostly just simple sandwiches and those are pretty hard to screw up.

You also don't feel the same shame as when you have something like McDonalds.

 

[sauce88]

What other option did they have if they were going to compete in 2019?

They had no centers after Couts, unless they move G back to center, which means two mediocre top lines, with rookie Farabee as the 2LW. Raffl was your other LW (Lindblom didn't emerge until the spring).

Now whether, once they learned Patrick was kaput, they should have tried to compete is another story, but Holmgren insisted on being competitive (he was the VP, and Scott parroted him).

Once Holmgren decided the rebuild was over, even though only a few young players had emerged, TK, Provorov and Sanheim, with Farabee as a rookie, Frost clearly not ready, Lindblom had just come over from the SHL, Vorobyev, Bunnaman and Twarynski AHL plus talents at best. Ghost was hobbled and Myers promising but inconsistent.

I credit AV with a great job turning this group into a top 8 team before COVID derailed them - but a lot of that was Hart emerging and then playing lights out in the playoffs. But it wasn't sustainable, and once AV realized that, he mailed it in.

There are always options other than free agency. I know you've stated in the past that over paying mediocre free agents in the past is a quick way to sewer your roster. I agree with that, and low and behold look at this team. The problem is Fletcher is lazy. It's not hard to see that all of the moves he's made have been the path of least resistance.

This management team has literally contradicted the valid points you've made in some of your posts and you still defend them, especially Fletcher.

Maybe we should have discussions about how the Flyers should fix this mess instead of trying to point fingers at who the problem is in defending this rotten franchise.

 

[deadhead]

They're not going to fix this mess until they rid themselves of the Snider mindset that the Flyers always compete, and buy their way out of mistakes. That simply doesn't work anymore. That's what got them into this hole.

What they need to do is obvious, make moves based on a 3-5 year horizon, build up the young asset base, clear cap room to facilitate trades to add more assets, not to overpay a 28-29 year old "name" FA on a 7 year deal.

Whether they do it depends not on the identity of the new GM, but on the FO making a commitment to a real rebuild and resist the temptation for a quick fix and a banner saying "mission accomplished."

Utter. Bullshit.

Hayes was given the keys to the kingdom by the franchise and denying that is just more fantasy bullshit.

What keys? B/c they showcased him after Couts and Ellis are out and G is gone?
Next year they'll showcase TK, because there will be no alternative.
Hayes was given nothing, if he had real pull JG would be a Flyer - his college BFF.