2022/23 Roster Thread XVI: Suite 16, Room for Improvement

[Hollywood Cannon]

They're not going to fix this mess until they rid themselves of the Snider mindset that the Flyers always compete, and buy their way out of mistakes. That simply doesn't work anymore. That's what got them into this hole.

What they need to do is obvious, make moves based on a 3-5 year horizon, build up the young asset base, clear cap room to facilitate trades to add more assets, not to overpay a 28-29 year old "name" FA on a 7 year deal.

Whether they do it depends not on the identity of the new GM, but on the FO making a commitment to a real rebuild and resist the temptation for a quick fix and a banner saying "mission accomplished."


What keys? B/c they showcased him after Couts and Ellis are out and G is gone?
Next year they'll showcase TK, because there will be no alternative.
Hayes was given nothing, if he had real pull JG would be a Flyer - his college BFF.

No, because they brought in all of his buddies and the organization made him the center of marketing. Denying that is not based in any type of reality.

You live in literal fantasy land.

Similarly, if Dave Scott was in charge Johnny Gaudreau would be a Flyer but he’s not, Chuck Fletcher is. Also, don’t let the fact that Gaudreau isn’t a Flyer distract you from the fact that they did try and get him by moving out JVR despite their claims that they didn’t.

 

[DancingPanther]

You're being far too kind. When it comes to sports, there really aren't that many of these inflection points where we definitively know. The difference between overwhelmingly likely and immutable is a chasm. This is the latter.

It's the easy solution you can compartmentalize. You can take every mistake in the world that adds up over years and gift-wrap it as the bold new solution. Those moves that don't matter never reach an event horizon if you find a new scapegoat every few years.

It's the cowardly, egotistical way out. I can tell because I'm so unbelievably intelligent that I can decipher locker room dynamics from scraps of information like between period interviews. I know whether a player is in shape. I know who works hard. If you set out to find signs of something, there's so much coverage now that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. No scope. No big picture. If it was false, I couldn't make this checklist.

It's unpleasantness by design. The clearest, brightest sign you can possibly have within the sports umbrella to move on with your life. Whatever's on the other end of it will never, ever make your life better. Run screaming and thank whatever higher power you believe in that someone was kind enough to tell you instead of making you do the leg work of discovery.

It's ok to say you don't know and leave it at that. But it takes the tiniest shred of humility.

Eat at Arby's.

Arby's has good fries

 

[TB87]

Arby's has good fries

Love me some of their Curly Fries. So good

 

[deadhead]

No, because they brought in all of his buddies and the organization made him the center of marketing. Denying that is not based in any type of reality.

You live in literal fantasy land.

Similarly, if Dave Scott was in charge Johnny Gaudreau would be a Flyer but he’s not, Chuck Fletcher is. Also, don’t let the fact that Gaudreau isn’t a Flyer distract you from the fact that they did try and get him by moving out JVR despite their claims that they didn’t.

Who else were they gonna market? Ellis?
Half the team is on IR, G is gone. And goalies are a tough sell (hiding behind that mask).

Those "buddies" were AV's former Ranger players. You really think Hayes brought them in?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Who else were they gonna market? Ellis?
Half the team is on IR, G is gone. And goalies are a tough sell (hiding behind that mask).

Those "buddies" were AV's former Ranger players. You really think Hayes brought them in?

They did it when Giroux was here.

Yes, yes I do believe that Hayes was brought in and asked about bringing those players in and they did to make him happy.

 

[deadhead]

They did it when Giroux was here.

Yes, yes I do believe that Hayes was brought in and asked about bringing those players in and they did to make him happy.

So you're saying Hayes had more influence than the HC they gave $25M to?

 

[Beef Invictus]

The alleged “outdated” “moron” dino sure has done well with TK & Tippett this season, & numerous young players throughout his long coaching career.

The outdated moron played Werenski as a rover & is trying to get York to be more of an active rover, as well.

The mistake would be putting Hayes ahead of the team. That’s exactly the type of mentality Torts is eliminating. If you don’t buy in, then you’ll hear about it & probably won’t be around to see next season. This is about molding a team, not catering to the disgruntled.

This outdated moron is playing the team in a defensive shell that ignores plays from the point and gets eaten apart while treating offense as "defense in the other end" with the emphasis on moving to the perimeter and grinding away.

TK is so good that he would thrive in any system. We have seen him do it. Tippett is riding a shooting heater. We've seen how that plays out before too.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So you're saying Hayes had more influence than the HC they gave $25M to?

Considering the team was openly pushing the Hayes Friendship Circle and the part he played in getting those guys here, yes.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Before they hired AV, they had offered to make Q the highest paid HC in the NHL.
It's clear they were going to hire a big name HC, and throw a lot of money at someone.
And it's not like there were a lot of options.
Going with a young, inexperienced HC was probably out of the question after Hakstol.
Because, as we know, they weren't rebuilding.

Philadelphia Flyers to hire three-time Stanley Cup champion Joel Quenneville as coach

Joel Quenneville, a three-time Stanley Cup champion with the Chicago Blackhawks, has been offered head coach position of the Philadelphia Flyers.

www.9news.com

Conflicting reports on whether Flyers will fire Dave Hakstol, hire Joel Quenneville as next head coach

After plenty of speculation, scrutiny and, well, awful hockey, the Flyers finally made the decision to go in a new direction with head coach — to almost no one’s surprise.

www.phillyvoice.com

Joel Quenneville Denies He's Accepted Flyers Job, Report Says

According to a report out of Philadelphia, former Chicago Blackhawks head coach Joel Quenneville has a new job.

www.nbcchicago.com

This is a lot of absolving Fletcher of all blame from someone who claims they never absolve him of blame.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

So you're saying Hayes had more influence than the HC they gave $25M to?

Then the dead coach walking? Yes.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

When will dear Charles Fletcher grow up to be a big boy with accountability?

dont worry hes gunna get fired upwards..

#Flyerstypical

 

[Striiker]

They did it when Giroux was here.

Yes, yes I do believe that Hayes was brought in and asked about bringing those players in and they did to make him happy.

No, no, no.

It’s a complete coincidence that Hayes has been shoved down our throats from literal day one and it’s also a complete coincidence that Fletcher kept adding his friends to the team.

Especially when they wouldn’t shut up about what a great leader he is and how they needed to change the culture/leadership.

 

[Striiker]

This outdated moron is playing the team in a defensive shell that ignores plays from the point and gets eaten apart while treating offense as "defense in the other end" with the emphasis on moving to the perimeter and grinding away.

TK is so good that he would thrive in any system. We have seen him do it. Tippett is riding a shooting heater. We've seen how that plays out before too.

TK had 37 points in his last 45 games under Hakstol after being freed from the bottom 6 in his 2nd season, 2017-2018

He then had 61 points in 66 games under AV in 2019-2020.

But actually his current scoring is all thanks to Torts revolutionary coaching. The guy who admits he doesn't understand offense.

 

[Beef Invictus]

TK had 37 points in his last 45 games under Hakstol after being freed from the bottom 6 in his 2nd season, 2017-2018

He then had 61 points in 66 games under AV in 2019-2020.

But actually his current scoring is all thanks to Torts revolutionary coaching. The guy who admits he doesn't understand offense.

I mean, this is a guy who has worshipped every single Flyers coach including Gordon.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

There's never any options

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Does McDavid not value winning for not asking out of Edmonton?

Ask me that question after he has played 15 years in the oilers organization.

The irony is rich. $50 million rich. As per usual with this franchise in the Fletcher years, every decision they make contradicts the last decision or the last quote. It's a jaw dropping lack of consistency. Hayes was an essential free agent center, a PKing dynamo, the nucleus of the new culture and core (Giroux, Voracek, Ghost = BAD), a leader with an 'A' on his jersey. Now, on pace for 70 points, he's not a center, doesn't PK, and so corrosive to the locker room they need to buy him out urgently.

They do not need to buy him out.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

R

Hayes was none of those things. What he was what you do when the guy who hired you tells you to "win now" after firing your predecessor for not winning, the top young center you inherited turns out to be damaged goods, and the other FA centers had no interest in coming to Philly (Pavelski and Duchene).

Yandle, Brassard had played for AV in NY, this wasn't Hayes' buddies, this was AV wanting HIS players.

And they hired AV b/c Holmgren made it clear he wanted a "name" HC after Berube and Haskol, they tried for Q, AV was the consolation prize.

So Hayes is guy who scream wins now? Come on man. He is a complimentary player, not a driver. I do not have that much of an issue with Hayes like others. He is pretty much the same player now that he was before they signed him.

What someone needs to do, it wont be Chuck as he is a vagina, is sit both the coach and Hayes down. Tell then to make it work as both are here and not going anywhere.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

What other option did they have if they were going to compete in 2019?

They had no centers after Couts, unless they move G back to center, which means two mediocre top lines, with rookie Farabee as the 2LW. Raffl was your other LW (Lindblom didn't emerge until the spring).

Now whether, once they learned Patrick was kaput, they should have tried to compete is another story, but Holmgren insisted on being competitive (he was the VP, and Scott parroted him).

Once Holmgren decided the rebuild was over, even though only a few young players had emerged, TK, Provorov and Sanheim, with Farabee as a rookie, Frost clearly not ready, Lindblom had just come over from the SHL, Vorobyev, Bunnaman and Twarynski AHL plus talents at best. Ghost was hobbled and Myers promising but inconsistent.

I credit AV with a great job turning this group into a top 8 team before COVID derailed them - but a lot of that was Hart emerging and then playing lights out in the playoffs. But it wasn't sustainable, and once AV realized that, he mailed it in.

Is the new GM at fault for not telling Shooter that it was not go time then? Is he not to blame for being a lackey then? This guy is a failure at every turn. There is no debate. No discussion.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

No, because they brought in all of his buddies and the organization made him the center of marketing. Denying that is not based in any type of reality.

You live in literal fantasy land.

Similarly, if Dave Scott was in charge Johnny Gaudreau would be a Flyer but he’s not, Chuck Fletcher is. Also, don’t let the fact that Gaudreau isn’t a Flyer distract you from the fact that they did try and get him by moving out JVR despite their claims that they didn’t.

Guess one counts as "all". If Chuck really wanted Gaudreau he would have had him. For whatever reason they stayed away. You are correct that if Scott or Clarke was running the show he would be a Flyer. So the Clarke still having say is false.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Guess one counts as "all". If Chuck really wanted Gaudreau he would have had him. For whatever reason they stayed away. You are correct that if Scott or Clarke was running the show he would be a Flyer. So the Clarke still having say is false.

One? Wrong. Multiple. We’ve had this discussion before though and it’s not worth rehashing.

Chuck is a lazy sack of shit. It was too “hard” to move JVR or make other moves due to his own ineptitude so once he saw how hard it was going to be and threw up his hands and signed Deslauriers instead.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

One? Wrong. Multiple. We’ve had this discussion before though and it’s not worth rehashing.

Chuck is a lazy sack of shit. It was too “hard” to move JVR or make other moves due to his own ineptitude so once he saw how hard it was going to be and threw up his hands and signed Deslauriers instead.

One. Sorry there is not multiple. Please do not give me a waiver pick up in Brown or the trade for Cam. Both those moves have absolutely nothing to do with Hayes.

JVR is not part of the equation. He had money to get JG and he decided to use it elsewhere. The rest yes he is terrible

 

[Beef Invictus]

"Please do not mention the things that prove me wrong"

 

[Curufinwe]

Ask me that question after he has played 15 years in the oilers organization.

Let's ask now since he's already in year 8 as an Oiler, and because your account will surely not be around in 7 years time.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

"Please do not mention the things that prove me wrong"

Yeah it proves me wrong. The fact you and others actually think claiming Brown on waivers and trading for Cam was all done for Hayes is hysterical. Take your blinders off.

Let's ask now since he's already in year 8 as an Oiler, and because your account will surely not be around in 7 years time.

what else do you have today? Any Cates comments?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah it proves me wrong. The fact you and others actually think claiming Brown on waivers and trading for Cam was all done for Hayes is hysterical. Take your blinders off.


what else do you have today? Any Cates comments?

The team flat-out told us they tried to fixate the culture around Hayes. These idiots built around him. Then they publicized it as a great revolution.