2022/23 Roster Thread XV: Where Optional Skates are Mandatory

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LegionOfDoom91

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Jan 25, 2013
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Well they would basically be the only analytical group to value the Risto and Deslauriers types. Considering they brought outsiders in, that’s just not a likely scenario. But I also recognize there are lots of private datasets that are not available to the public…so I guess it is possible that they are using some model that shows these crappy players have value.

But honestly, it’s most likely Fletch is just not listening to them. He talked about wanting Risto for years. We know he loves the perceived hard workers, low event players.

Charlie said around the time of the extension that the analytic department presented a case against Ristolainen just like they did at the time of the initial trade. Both times their recommendations were ignored. As the hockey people just liked Ristolainen too much to value what the analytics say/said about him. They concluded the analytics are missing it with a player like Ristolainen.

He also talked about everything he’s ever discussed with analytic people in the private & public spheres is that the variance isn’t going to be that greatly different. In regards to a bad player like Ristolainen he said they’re all gonna conclude he’s bad it’s just to what degree. He said the variance isn’t going to be that greatly different.

You can fire them for all I care along with everybody else but do we really think they’re going to win a battle in this current industry over the likes Fletcher, Lombardi, Clarke, Holmgren, etc.? These guys are all older school hockey guy types who if they feel strongly about something they’re not going to come off it no matter what is presented. All of these guys have made similar mistakes before even Ristolainen.
 
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deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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RIsto is playing better this year, last 25 games:
CF 45.80%, CFrel -4.26, xGF 48.21%, xGF rel +1.82, GF/GA 13/17, xGF/60: 2.27.

One thing I've noticed is he uses his stick a lot more effectively instead of trying to body everyone.
He may look ugly at times, but he's not the black hole he was last season.
He's never going to live up to his contract or the trade, but hopefully Shaw can at least make him into a decent 3rd pair guy.
 

FlyerNutter

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Jun 22, 2018
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Well they would basically be the only analytical group to value the Risto and Deslauriers types. Considering they brought outsiders in, that’s just not a likely scenario. But I also recognize there are lots of private datasets that are not available to the public…so I guess it is possible that they are using some model that shows these crappy players have value.

But honestly, it’s most likely Fletch is just not listening to them. He talked about wanting Risto for years. We know he loves the perceived hard workers, low event players.

Anderson has been in place since 2014. “Ron wanted to expand the area, and Snider was really on board with that”

“How do we not only handle it. Analyze it. Figure it out… how do we present that information to management, coaches, player development coaches - and use that to make us better”

“Somebody drops you off at a beach, and someone tells you to find the best grain of sand. What it really comes down to is coming together as a group, and determining what things are pressing, and that can make an immediate impact. What can make the largest impact… what things we can communicate easily”

“What we’ve been spending the last couple years getting better at is trying to marry in the person scouting, and the data”.

“What we are relied upon to do. Is find the comparable to this player. What’s the right range. Right term, AAV. How does that impact things down the line. What is the downward stream effect of the decision. Our job is just to provide as much data as we can. It’s not just should be acquire player x. It’s about are we doing well at this part of the game. It might go to Chuck. The coaches. The strength and conditioning staff. It’s trying to put that info into the right peoples hands”

He’s been in place since 2014. I can’t state how strongly he’s been advocating against certain moves, or if he’s just being ignored. I’m not going to absolve them though, because frankly there have been far too many examples to show he hasn’t lead his department to be convincing enough in his arguments. I think he’s a shitty communicator or advocate. That’s just my fan opinion.

Like far too many men in this org, I get a sense that department is very comfortable in not rocking the boat. I could very well be mistaken but somehow I doubt it.

The fact he was kept on by the country club after the firing of Hextall/Pryor doesn't scream to me as someone who is willing to make a lot of noise.
 
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renberg

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RIsto is playing better this year, last 25 games:
CF 45.80%, CFrel -4.26, xGF 48.21%, xGF rel +1.82, GF/GA 13/17, xGF/60: 2.27.

One thing I've noticed is he uses his stick a lot more effectively instead of trying to body everyone.
He may look ugly at times, but he's not the black hole he was last season.
He's never going to live up to his contract or the trade, but hopefully Shaw can at least make him into a decent 3rd pair guy.
Deady you’re trying to defend Risto’s play by putting out a low bar for him. Better isn’t necessarily good.
I get it that he needs to learn a different type of game to play in order to be effective in the NHL. I’d just rather that he did that somewhere else; perhaps LHV than doing it here. His mistakes are more damaging here. Right now a kid with potential deserves his spot more than he does.
 

blackjackmulligan

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Jun 17, 2022
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So you aren’t a flyers fan?
So are you going to answer my question?

Fletcher gave up a ton of assets to acquire Stinktolainen. The guy bombs in Philadelphia, several teams were interested at the trade deadline and were WILLING to give up a first round pick and Schmuck decided to double down and re-sign the league's worst top four defender for five years. And now we have a coaching staff that is basically teaching Ass-To-Mouth how to play defense. This is a move that sinks a franchise. So yeah, it is a big deal. It's a sign of how poorly managed this club is and how there's no checks and balances in place.
Any links to this as don't recall seeing any. Do not get me wrong as should have been moved regardless as you just cut your losses and get back what you can
 

deadhead

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Feb 26, 2014
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Deady you’re trying to defend Risto’s play by putting out a low bar for him. Better isn’t necessarily good.
I get it that he needs to learn a different type of game to play in order to be effective in the NHL. I’d just rather that he did that somewhere else; perhaps LHV than doing it here. His mistakes are more damaging here. Right now a kid with potential deserves his spot more than he does.
You don't deep six his value just to please fans.
What kid with potential?

The only RHD is Attard, and he needs time in the AHL to learn fundamentals (rover in college), at some point he'll replace Braun this spring.
Zamula didn't show much in the NHL, and right now you could make the case he's being outplayed by Ginning.
 

renberg

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You don't deep six his value just to please fans.
What kid with potential?

The only RHD is Attard, and he needs time in the AHL to learn fundamentals (rover in college), at some point he'll replace Braun this spring.
Zamula didn't show much in the NHL, and right now you could make the case he's being outplayed by Ginning.
I’d rather see Attard or Z up here improving their game than watching Risto drifting around the ice causing calamities. Aside from getting beat so that opponents can score, Risto has learned how to check opponents into the back of Hart’s head.
 
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Beef Invictus

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Dec 21, 2009
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RIsto is playing better this year, last 25 games:
CF 45.80%, CFrel -4.26, xGF 48.21%, xGF rel +1.82, GF/GA 13/17, xGF/60: 2.27.

One thing I've noticed is he uses his stick a lot more effectively instead of trying to body everyone.
He may look ugly at times, but he's not the black hole he was last season.
He's never going to live up to his contract or the trade, but hopefully Shaw can at least make him into a decent 3rd pair guy.

crab-cherry.gif
 

BringBackHakstol

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Oct 25, 2005
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You don't deep six his value just to please fans.
What kid with potential?

The only RHD is Attard, and he needs time in the AHL to learn fundamentals (rover in college), at some point he'll replace Braun this spring.
Zamula didn't show much in the NHL, and right now you could make the case he's being outplayed by Ginning.
My dude just give it a rest and take the L. It's all good, we all are wrong sometimes
 

Flyerfan4life

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Jun 9, 2010
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So are you going to answer my question?


Any links to this as don't recall seeing any. Do not get me wrong as should have been moved regardless as you just cut your losses and get back what you can
there were no other teams... thats all bullshit..

why do you think he wanted to test the market! but ended up resigning here at a paycut..cuz not one other team called his agent
 

blackjackmulligan

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Jun 17, 2022
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there were no other teams... thats all bullshit..

why do you think he wanted to test the market! but ended up resigning here at a paycut..cuz not one other team called his agent
I believe there was some interest just not any great return. Would have made Chuck "look" bad so he doubled down. Just flat out dumb not to cut bait no matter the return.

Funny thing is Risto and his agent saying that he was born for playoff hockey and the like. Take a walk with that shit.
 

Curufinwe

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Feb 28, 2013
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Fletcher''s Flyers are 28th in the league at Christmas in his fifth year as GM. That’s one place behind Arizona who are actively tanking. The 2nd rounder he traded to Buffalo for Ristolainen along with Robert Hagg and the 14th pick in 2021, is going to be around 37th overall in 2023.

Happy Holidays! :xcheers:
 
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Curufinwe

Registered User
Feb 28, 2013
56,996
45,417
RIsto is playing better this year, last 25 games:
CF 45.80%, CFrel -4.26, xGF 48.21%, xGF rel +1.82, GF/GA 13/17, xGF/60: 2.27.

One thing I've noticed is he uses his stick a lot more effectively instead of trying to body everyone.
He may look ugly at times, but he's not the black hole he was last season.
He has one point all season, which makes him the biggest offensive black hole in the league on defense outside of Braun and Bortuzzo (minimum 20 GP).

His $/Point is $5.1 million. :laugh:

Ghost, who Fletcher traded with the 36th overall pick in 2022 to make room for Risto, has a $/P ratio of $187,500. 👻

 

captainpaxil

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Dec 2, 2008
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It looks like risto has been asked to change his game and as someone who appreciated his aggressive mistakes I'm disappointed. I feel he may just be a low hockey IQ guy which is a bad spot to have sunk five mil into. Those guys burn you unless you hide them
Zamula has been having a hard time transitioning to right d. He also has zero points this year. Physically gifted but the awareness I liked in him previously seems a bit slower as if he's thinking more. I think too many NHL minutes would be bad for his confidence right now.
I think the tda experiment is at about par. He hasn't had the revitalizing effect we wanted but the talent is pretty obvious and he seems coachable.
Braun is what he is but when the whole right side is a question mark slow and steady gets beat to the inside
 
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