2022/23 Roster Thread XV: Where Optional Skates are Mandatory

[ugiswrong]

I think his shot is still developing, and if he relaxes and trusts his skill will get nasty, kind of like Frost with possession.

 

[Rich Nixon]

We got Avs fans over offering Newhook for a retained Hayes on the Trade board. In what world...?

 

[Lindberg]

We got Avs fans over offering Newhook for a retained Hayes on the Trade board. In what world...?

Hayes at 50% retained isn't bad value. These idiots in charge just need to finally admit and commit to a rebuild.

 

[Curufinwe]

It was terrible comparison. Diff positions. Other factors. You clearly have something against Cates based on your previous post. Guess because the coach likes him more than Frost.

I don't have anything against Cates. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of Fletcher-fluffers who laud the team for banishing one waiver exempt prospect to the AHL as Braun and Rist0 set new NHL records for defensive futility, while another is giving infinite rope in the NHL, and is in fact being forced to play out of his position to the detriment of his offensive development..

 

[Beef Invictus]

We got Avs fans over offering Newhook for a retained Hayes on the Trade board. In what world...?

I'd say sold, but we'd ruin him

 

[Magua]

Risto just needs 5 more games. I’m biting my fingernails I’m so nervous. I can tell you none of the players on that list were in the first year of a 5 year, $25MM contract after being traded for top 10 value. That Risto is actually an offensive defenseman, arguably the best on the team, would make this even more historic.

 

[renberg]

Do you believe that if they take long-term deals here it means they're awful non-competitive losers?

Anyone that calls G a non-competitive loser is silly. Ask Crosby

Watch Claude Giroux start Game 6 with a monster hit on Sidney Crosby

He followed this hit by scoring the first goal of the game. Not bad.

nhl.nbcsports.com

If the Flyers were a competitive club that was well managed, G would have been extended. He probably would have given the organization a bit of a home town discount to remain here. I'm going to go out on a limb here but, next to BC, is there a Flyer who gave more to live up to the Club's image of toughness that Giroux. He showed up every night that he put on a jersey. He may not have been the most vocal leader but his example was out there every night.

 

[Striiker]

Giroux’s only real flaw was being on a dogshit team.

He was elite at some things and merely “good” or “really good” at everything else. No holes, never detrimental, even played much bigger than his size.

Unfortunately some fans and almost all media/execs are dumb enough to judge individuals on team achievements, so he remains criminally underrated.

The fact that he’s still this good, at this age, is crazy too. Hopefully Ottawa gets its shit together and can compete before he’s done there.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Anyone that calls G a non-competitive loser is silly. Ask Crosby

Watch Claude Giroux start Game 6 with a monster hit on Sidney Crosby

He followed this hit by scoring the first goal of the game. Not bad.

nhl.nbcsports.com

If the Flyers were a competitive club that was well managed, G would have been extended. He probably would have given the organization a bit of a home town discount to remain here. I'm going to go out on a limb here but, next to BC, is there a Flyer who gave more to live up to the Club's image of toughness that Giroux. He showed up every night that he put on a jersey. He may not have been the most vocal leader but his example was out there every night.

Well we know that isn't true at all. Giroux asked Fletcher to bring him back & Fletcher told him no, in so many words.

Like literally, Giroux told Fletch "You can trade me anywhere that will give you the best deal. Just promise to bring me back in the offseason" & Chuck Fletcher told him "We can't promise that"

That's why Giroux forced Philly's hand and only wanted to go to FLA. Fletcher is to blame for the return from FLA without a bidding war, and not bringing Giroux back this summer.

It all comes back to Fletcher being *terrible*

 

[FlyerNutter]

@Appleyard

Sighting on Stick2Hockey Pod.

 

[Lindberg]

Well we know that isn't true at all. Giroux asked Fletcher to bring him back & Fletcher told him no, in so many words.

Like literally, Giroux told Fletch "You can trade me anywhere that will give you the best deal. Just promise to bring me back in the offseason" & Chuck Fletcher told him "We can't promise that"

That's why Giroux forced Philly's hand and only wanted to go to FLA. Fletcher is to blame for the return from FLA without a bidding war, and not bringing Giroux back this summer.

It all comes back to Fletcher being *terrible*

I don't blame Giroux at all for either wanting to come back to Philly or going to Ottawa. I'm sure they have friends in the Philly area and winning isn't everything. Not everyone wants to constantly uproot their lives. I enjoy being more of a nomad but that's definitely not what most people like to do.

I haven't really cared much about this club for the past few years and I've watched little to no games but hearing the thoughts that the Flyers might be blowing this thing apart and sending Kevin Hayes packing would be a blessing. Would be a Christmas miracle if Comcast thought selling the team was the smart move. I'd rather have another Ed Snider then this pile.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

If the Flyers were a competitive club that was well managed, G would have been extended. He probably would have given the organization a bit of a home town discount to remain here. I'm going to go out on a limb here but, next to BC, is there a Flyer who gave more to live up to the Club's image of toughness that Giroux. He showed up every night that he put on a jersey. He may not have been the most vocal leader but his example was out there every night.

There are around 21 of them. This isn't meant to shit on Claude at all, but like Generation X, the 1985-87 crew seems to be forgotten about too often. They were in legendary playoff wars that almost brought us a title against one of the greatest dynasties the NHL has seen. Claude doesn't have that. It's obviously not his fault even a little, everyone with even a single brain cell knows that, but the fact that they did go through those and he didn't stands. The discussion about "best" Flyers is completely different, of course, and there's no arguing against his case in the top tier.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

There are around 21 of them. This isn't meant to shit on Claude at all, but like Generation X, the 1985-87 crew seems to be forgotten about too often. They were in legendary playoff wars that almost brought us a title against one of the greatest dynasties the NHL has seen. Claude doesn't have that. It's obviously not his fault even a little, everyone with even a single brain cell knows that, but the fact that they did go through those and he didn't stands. The discussion about "best" Flyers is completely different, of course, and there's no arguing against his case in the top tier.

If Giroux had half decent goaltending then the Flyers beat the greatest cap-era dynasty which was admittedly before they got started.

 

[Curufinwe]

I think his shot is still developing, and if he relaxes and trusts his skill will get nasty, kind of like Frost with possession.

I'm more impressed with OT's skating than his shot. He's made some defenders look foolish with nifty moves this season.

 

[deadhead]

I don't have anything against Cates. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of Fletcher-fluffers who laud the team for banishing one waiver exempt prospect to the AHL as Braun and Rist0 set new NHL records for defensive futility, while another is giving infinite rope in the NHL, and is in fact being forced to play out of his position to the detriment of his offensive development..

Cates is more experienced than York, 4 year senior, pointless sending him to the AHL.

Both are high IQ players, York just wasn't skating well in pre-season. His game is more about edge work and quickness than speed, when he's not fluid skating with the puck, he's a bit more limited. But he did need to bulk up, not to be huge, but strong enough to use a short man's leverage on bigger players. Just maybe did too much, he's 21, players tend to add strength over time, not in one summer.

I think Cates at center is a reflection of the lack of defense by the other centers, he's our best defensive center and with experience will probably be close to elite in that role. Whether he can develop offensively at center is a question, but there's a role for a top defender, especially with Couts out - if Couts returns close to 100%, Cates will probably move back to LW.

In a rebuilding year, good time to "stretch" players.
They're doing that with York as well, he's said he's more comfortable on the left side, yet he was playing RHD with Sanheim.
I'd like to see them try Frost on the PK, he's got the speed for an aggressive PK, and converting turnovers into SH goals messes with teams and makes them more hesitant on the PP.

OT may be the best skater with the puck on the team, though Frost is looking better recently. He can puck handle at high speed, which is why he's good at zone entries, TK has never mastered that art. He's got a very dangerous wrist shot, but I think he lacks confidence in it, he'll either rush a shot or hold it for too long. But this happens to a lot of young scorers, they struggle for a year or two, then break out with enough experience that the game slows down.

 

[deadhead]

Well we know that isn't true at all. Giroux asked Fletcher to bring him back & Fletcher told him no, in so many words.

Like literally, Giroux told Fletch "You can trade me anywhere that will give you the best deal. Just promise to bring me back in the offseason" & Chuck Fletcher told him "We can't promise that"

That's why Giroux forced Philly's hand and only wanted to go to FLA. Fletcher is to blame for the return from FLA without a bidding war, and not bringing Giroux back this summer.

It all comes back to Fletcher being *terrible*

Nothing wrong with the return from Florida. What did people think we were getting for Giroux?
He's a good player, but he's not Stone in his prime, willing to sign an extension, etc. He wasn't garnering a king's ransom, Colorado had taken Byrum and Newhook off the table, the prospects that were left were no better than Tippett.

Tippett is better than a lot of people thought, with a lot of upside left, 2024 1st (b/c Zito wanted the D-man more) and a 2023 3rd.
That was market value for a 34 year old rental that FLA knew they couldn't retain.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Cates is more experienced than York, 4 year senior, pointless sending him to the AHL.

Both are high IQ players, York just wasn't skating well in pre-season. His game is more about edge work and quickness than speed, when he's not fluid skating with the puck, he's a bit more limited. But he did need to bulk up, not to be huge, but strong enough to use a short man's leverage on bigger players. Just maybe did too much, he's 21, players tend to add strength over time, not in one summer.

I think Cates at center is a reflection of the lack of defense by the other centers, he's our best defensive center and with experience will probably be close to elite in that role. Whether he can develop offensively at center is a question, but there's a role for a top defender, especially with Couts out - if Couts returns close to 100%, Cates will probably move back to LW.

In a rebuilding year, good time to "stretch" players.
They're doing that with York as well, he's said he's more comfortable on the left side, yet he was playing RHD with Sanheim.
I'd like to see them try Frost on the PK, he's got the speed for an aggressive PK, and converting turnovers into SH goals messes with teams and makes them more hesitant on the PP.

OT may be the best skater with the puck on the team, though Frost is looking better recently. He can puck handle at high speed, which is why he's good at zone entries, TK has never mastered that art. He's got a very dangerous wrist shot, but I think he lacks confidence in it, he'll either rush a shot or hold it for too long. But this happens to a lot of young scorers, they struggle for a year or two, then break out with enough experience that the game slows down.

Disagree as you don't play him at center and get him acclimated then move him again. Right or wrong it is clear the coach likes/wants him at center.

Their PK sucks' they should be trying many diff combos.

York said he prefers the left. Wonder if they spoke with him at all about moving to the right or just did it.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Nothing wrong with the return from Florida. What did people think we were getting for Giroux?
He's a good player, but he's not Stone in his prime, willing to sign an extension, etc. He wasn't garnering a king's ransom, Colorado had taken Byrum and Newhook off the table, the prospects that were left were no better than Tippett.

Tippett is better than a lot of people thought, with a lot of upside left, 2024 1st (b/c Zito wanted the D-man more) and a 2023 3rd.
That was market value for a 34 year old rental that FLA knew they couldn't retain.

The point with the return from Giroux is that it likely wasn't as much as we could've gotten. Limiting your market will almost always do that. And it's all because Fletch wouldn't do the obvious thing.

What I'm saying is that Chuck Fletcher in any situation where he can extract value in a transaction, he always fails. He never comes out with what many would think is max value.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The point with the return from Giroux is that it likely wasn't as much as we could've gotten. Limiting your market will almost always do that. And it's all because Fletch wouldn't do the obvious thing.

What I'm saying is that Chuck Fletcher in any situation where he can extract value in a transaction, he always fails. He never comes out with what many would think is max value.

So Chuck was supposed to cave into Giroux's demands? Going separate ways was the one rare thing he has actually done right.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

So Chuck was supposed to cave into Giroux's demands? Going separate ways was the one rare thing he has actually done right.

"cave in"?...You make it sound like it wasn't obviously the best thing to do considering the state of the team. It's a complete win-win unless they just didn't like Claude Giroux as a person/leader (which is possible since our FO doesn't know what they're doing).

You get (likely) more assets/picks to help build your team up & you keep one of the only reasons for fans to care about your team, likely at a discount.

 

[deadhead]

Disagree as you don't play him at center and get him acclimated then move him again. Right or wrong it is clear the coach likes/wants him at center.

Their PK sucks' they should be trying many diff combos.

York said he prefers the left. Wonder if they spoke with him at all about moving to the right or just did it.

In a rebuilding season, you have the luxury of putting players out of their comfort zone.

York's future may be LHD, but injuries happen, so being able to play RHD adds to his value.

Same with Cates, if he's a top defensive center, that has value, especially in the 3rd period when you have a lead. So even if his future is LW, being able to play situational center adds to his value.

Tippett has played both sides, while his future may be LW, like Farabee, being able to play both sides adds value.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

In a rebuilding season, you have the luxury of putting players out of their comfort zone.

York's future may be LHD, but injuries happen, so being able to play RHD adds to his value.

Same with Cates, if he's a top defensive center, that has value, especially in the 3rd period when you have a lead. So even if his future is LW, being able to play situational center adds to his value.

Tippett has played both sides, while his future may be LW, like Farabee, being able to play both sides adds value.

Not saying it doesn't add to his value. He made it clear he prefers the left side. So did they discuss it or just say your playing the right.

We view it diff with Cates is all. I dont see the center experiment ending anytime soon. Meaning next couple of seasons. We shall see.

You need to stop with the rebuilding season nonsense. They are not rebuilding. Not sure why you believe this to be the case.

"cave in"?...You make it sound like it wasn't obviously the best thing to do considering the state of the team. It's a complete win-win unless they just didn't like Claude Giroux as a person/leader (which is possible since our FO doesn't know what they're doing).

You get (likely) more assets/picks to help build your team up & you keep one of the only reasons for fans to care about your team, likely at a discount.

Don't make it sound like anything. It is not a win win to me. Sometimes it is best for a change for both parties. In this case I think that was the case.

Don't buy the discount angle either. With or without him this team is garbage.

 

[Beef Invictus]

"cave in"?...You make it sound like it wasn't obviously the best thing to do considering the state of the team. It's a complete win-win unless they just didn't like Claude Giroux as a person/leader (which is possible since our FO doesn't know what they're doing).

You get (likely) more assets/picks to help build your team up & you keep one of the only reasons for fans to care about your team, likely at a discount.

The guy flat-out doesn't like Giroux for any rational reason, but wants to pretend it's rational. And won't just admit it. The discussion can go nowhere.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

The guy flat-out doesn't like Giroux for no rational reason, but wants to pretend it's rational. And won't just admit it. The discussion can go nowhere.

Okay fine, you're right. I'll save this for Festivus I guess.

Tis the season.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

If Giroux had half decent goaltending then the Flyers beat the greatest cap-era dynasty which was admittedly before they got started.

I see you stopped reading after the bolded part.