2022/23 Roster Thread XV: Where Optional Skates are Mandatory

[deadhead]

Players are often a work in progress, two steps forward, one step back. There's no perfect way of handling young players.
York clearly benefited from a couple months in LHV, anyone who thinks he looked like this in pre-season wasn't watching the games.

Torts isn't the martinet that some claim (and AV was):

“He does some crazy things,” John Tortorella said of Travis Konecny. But when you have a reactionary player who’s a “bundle of energy,” you have to be careful how you coach him. Said Konecny is cognizant of what he needs to improve — “or that’s what he tells me.”

“When we get to being a team that is competing in big games, playoffs and all that, when we get there as a team, hopefully at that time, he’ll lead the way as far as situational play,” Tortorella noted on Tuesday night. “He’s still a pretty young man in this game. I’m hoping he leads the way as far as understanding some of those things when you’re in those key type of situations.”

“He’s [Tippett] climbing out of it,” Tortorella noted before the puck even dropped on Tuesday. “You notice him more, his skating. I just felt he was trying to make more of a difference. And I don’t think that’s a physical skill, that’s a mental skill. I think we’re going to go through some ups and downs with him until he gets that totally consistent.”

“I watch him [Frost] tonight, I see him carry the puck more instead of just getting rid of it,” Tortorella observed. “I think the big part of his game is carrying the puck, bringing people to him, so he can make plays. For a big part of this season, he was just getting rid of the puck. I think he feels more confident.”

“This is a big time for his career. He has a chance to show, or not show,” Tortorella said. “He’s going to get the opportunity throughout the rest of this year and I think he’s trying to seize it here.”

 

[Curufinwe]

Players are often a work in progress, two steps forward, one step back. There's no perfect way of handling young players.
York clearly benefited from a couple months in LHV, anyone who thinks he looked like this in pre-season wasn't watching the games.

Maybe Noah Cates should have spent two months in LHV and then he wouldn't be a complete offensive flop as a top 6 center in the NHL at age 23.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Yeah but just wait until you see him in the Playoffs. Different animal.

I hear he becomes Chris Therien swimming in a sea of Jagrs

 

[Tripod]

I don’t even miss Ghost tbh.

Why would you when we have a better version in ADA.

Who cares about the cost.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Maybe Noah Cates should have spent two months in LHV and then he wouldn't be a complete offensive flop as a top 6 center in the NHL at age 23.

Great comparison. York and Cates.

 

[Curufinwe]

Great comparison. York and Cates.

If you don't like comparing waiver-exempt prospects in their early 20s without much NHL experience, we could compare Cates to Deslauriers, who is outscoring him per ES hour this season.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Beef Invictus]

No it doesn't. Answer the question. Actually no need.

How he coaches has nothing to do with what we are discussing.


Do you have any proof it harmed the team?

How he coaches has everything to do with it. His coaching style matches what he said he expects of Frost. That confirms his words aren't empty.


Does playing an inferior player over a superior player make the team better, or worse? Does making the team worse help the team?

 

[deadhead]

Couts 2nd to 4th seasons: pp/60 (5x5): 1.16, 1.53, 1.36.

We'll see how Cates finishes out the season, he's only played with "real" wingers the last couple weeks.
He's also hands down the best defensive forward on the team.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Players are often a work in progress, two steps forward, one step back. There's no perfect way of handling young players.
York clearly benefited from a couple months in LHV, anyone who thinks he looked like this in pre-season wasn't watching the games.

Torts isn't the martinet that some claim (and AV was):

“He does some crazy things,” John Tortorella said of Travis Konecny. But when you have a reactionary player who’s a “bundle of energy,” you have to be careful how you coach him. Said Konecny is cognizant of what he needs to improve — “or that’s what he tells me.”

“When we get to being a team that is competing in big games, playoffs and all that, when we get there as a team, hopefully at that time, he’ll lead the way as far as situational play,” Tortorella noted on Tuesday night. “He’s still a pretty young man in this game. I’m hoping he leads the way as far as understanding some of those things when you’re in those key type of situations.”

“He’s [Tippett] climbing out of it,” Tortorella noted before the puck even dropped on Tuesday. “You notice him more, his skating. I just felt he was trying to make more of a difference. And I don’t think that’s a physical skill, that’s a mental skill. I think we’re going to go through some ups and downs with him until he gets that totally consistent.”

“I watch him [Frost] tonight, I see him carry the puck more instead of just getting rid of it,” Tortorella observed. “I think the big part of his game is carrying the puck, bringing people to him, so he can make plays. For a big part of this season, he was just getting rid of the puck. I think he feels more confident.”

“This is a big time for his career. He has a chance to show, or not show,” Tortorella said. “He’s going to get the opportunity throughout the rest of this year and I think he’s trying to seize it here.”

Players routinely look one way in preseason and then completely different in the regular season. You should know this, you annually make grand proclamations based on preseason while ignoring actually useful sample sizes and then you're wrong about them.

Preseason is a shit metric, a small and highly flawed sample size. York didn't undergo a renaissance.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Couts 2nd to 4th seasons: pp/60 (5x5): 1.16, 1.53, 1.36.

We'll see how Cates finishes out the season, he's only played with "real" wingers the last couple weeks.
He's also hands down the best defensive forward on the team.

Cates doesn't have Couturier's offensive pedigree, and he's gotten vastly easier usage. Come on.

 

[deadhead]

Players routinely look one way in preseason and then completely different in the regular season. You should know this, you annually make grand proclamations based on preseason while ignoring actually useful sample sizes and then you're wrong about them.

Preseason is a shit metric, a small and highly flawed sample size. York didn't undergo a renaissance.

Veterans with guaranteed jobs do, they're just getting their game conditioning and timing down.
Kids shouldn't approach pre-season as if they have a guaranteed job, the best way to lose one.
Though I think York bulked up too fast, he did not look like the same skater he has since he returned.

 

[BiggE]

Couts 2nd to 4th seasons: pp/60 (5x5): 1.16, 1.53, 1.36.

We'll see how Cates finishes out the season, he's only played with "real" wingers the last couple weeks.
He's also hands down the best defensive forward on the team.

Comparing Cates to Couturier is beyond ridiculous, even for you.

 

[Striiker]

Preseason is a shit metric, a small and highly flawed sample size. York didn't undergo a renaissance.

Remember when Twarynski proved he was a legit NHL player during preseason a few years back? I bet he’s been killing it as a regular since then.

You’d think people would eventually learn that it’s worthless for evaluations due to sample size, screwed up rosters, and rusty vet players who aren’t going 100%… but apparently not.

 

[deadhead]

Comparing Cates to Couturier is beyond ridiculous, even for you.

Same situation, top flight defensive center with less than ideal wings struggling to generate offense.
No, I don't think Cates is going to become Couts, I'm not sure he'll stay at center next year if Couts returns and Gauthier is for real.
But I'd bet on his offense improving over the next couple years as he grows accustomed to playing more of an offense oriented role.

What is impressive is adjusting to center after playing mostly wing in college, he's already a solid defensive center, if he could get his scoring into the 1.50+ range, he'd be a solid two way center.
Pageau in 9 years has had peak years of 1.64, 1.61, and 1.56, and he was traded for a 1stm 2nd & 3rd, and given a 6x$5 contract.
Cates doesn't have to be an elite scorer to have real value.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

If you don't like comparing waiver-exempt prospects in their early 20s without much NHL experience, we could compare Cates to Deslauriers, who is outscoring him per ES hour this season.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

It was terrible comparison. Diff positions. Other factors. You clearly have something against Cates based on your previous post. Guess because the coach likes him more than Frost.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

How he coaches has everything to do with it. His coaching style matches what he said he expects of Frost. That confirms his words aren't empty.


Does playing an inferior player over a superior player make the team better, or worse? Does making the team worse help the team?

Who was the superior player? Define superior? How did the make the team worse? Again any proof as you like to ask others. Is it possible York started the year in the top 6 then completely shits the bed? Is that a possible scenario? Yes or no? Waiting for the proof how it harmed the team. dont bother.

No how he coaches has nothing to do with what was being discussed. Stop moving the goal post. Cement head had no clue on how torts or his staff wanted York to play. Cement head also never told York anything. He spoke out of line. End of the story.

 

[flyerslducks]

Farabee has 16 ESP, but no other points

Laughton only has 6 ESP, but has 4 PPP, and 3 SHP.

Interesting. Hopefully he gets more pp1 opportunity when jvr gets traded. I think torts might go tippet or cates tho

 

[deadhead]

Interesting. Hopefully he gets more pp1 opportunity when jvr gets traded. I think torts might go tippet or cates tho

Tippett might have the best shot on the team, like a lot of inexperienced players, he sometimes rushes things, but he's got an excellent wrist shot.
When they add Foerster and Gaither, to go with Tippett and TK, they'll actually have some fire power.
Now if they could just find another playmaking center, though I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy Brink, he may fill that role for a line from RW.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Veterans with guaranteed jobs do, they're just getting their game conditioning and timing down.
Kids shouldn't approach pre-season as if they have a guaranteed job, the best way to lose one.
Though I think York bulked up too fast, he did not look like the same skater he has since he returned.

Bulking up too fast points to the shit development values you insist aren't shit.

Preseason is shit not because of player mindsets. It's shit because you have a bunch of guys coasting, a bunch of guys playing for their final shot, you have a range of players who were asked to work on or display specific things, you have pond hockey. It's garbage.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tippett might have the best shot on the team, like a lot of inexperienced players, he sometimes rushes things, but he's got an excellent wrist shot.
When they add Foerster and Gaither, to go with Tippett and TK, they'll actually have some fire power.
Now if they could just find another playmaking center, though I'm looking forward to seeing a healthy Brink, he may fill that role for a line from RW.

Tippett does not have the best shot on the team. TK, JVR, Atkinson, Hayes, Farabee, Couturier, all better. You're really whipping out the most bizarre things today between this and comparing Cates to Couts.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who was the superior player? Define superior? How did the make the team worse? Again any proof as you like to ask others. Is it possible York started the year in the top 6 then completely shits the bed? Is that a possible scenario? Yes or no? Waiting for the proof how it harmed the team. dont bother.

No how he coaches has nothing to do with what was being discussed. Stop moving the goal post. Cement head had no clue on how torts or his staff wanted York to play. Cement head also never told York anything. He spoke out of line. End of the story.

York. York is better than Braun and Seeler. Always has been.

I'm not moving the goalposts. You are dishonestly trying to ignore vital things that prove you wrong. Actions backing up words is important. Its not moving the goalposts.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I’d rather pay risto to not play for us

thats prolly what will happen..

#Flyerstypical

 

[deadhead]

Tippett does not have the best shot on the team. TK, JVR, Atkinson, Hayes, Farabee, Couturier, all better. You're really whipping out the most bizarre things today between this and comparing Cates to Couts.

Atkinson and Couts ain't on the team, Hayes, Farabee, JVR don't have a wrist shot as good as Tippett, they're better scorers, because they know how to make plays, especially in traffic. TK is the only one comparable in terms of release and velocity. Tippett's accuracy varies, I think because he rushes plays.

 

[VladDrag]

Tippett does not have the best shot on the team. TK, JVR, Atkinson, Hayes, Farabee, Couturier, all better. You're really whipping out the most bizarre things today between this and comparing Cates to Couts.

Personally, I think TK is the best combination of release, accuracy and power. Atkinson has a great release and very good power. I think he's more of a volume shooter, in that he gets lots of chances in HD areas, which is very valuable.

I think Tippett has the most power on the team, but I also think he's extremely inaccurate.

I also think Laughton has one of the best wrist shots when it comes to release, power and accuracy. But, unlike the other guys, he's not good at getting into positions to effectively use it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Personally, I think TK is the best combination of release, accuracy and power. Atkinson has a great release and very good power. I think he's more of a volume shooter, in that he gets lots of chances in HD areas, which is very valuable.

I think Tippett has the most power on the team, but I also think he's extremely inaccurate.

I also think Laughton has one of the best wrist shots when it comes to release, power and accuracy. But, unlike the other guys, he's not good at getting into positions to effectively use it.

Laughton is definitely a more effective shooter than Tippett.