2022/23 Roster Thread XV: Where Optional Skates are Mandatory

[Captain Dave Poulin]

 

[FlyerNutter]

But I was told players LOVE being benched by Torts!?!?!?!?!?!?! How can this be

We must get to the bottom of this mystery

3 months into his tenure HC has managed to completely alienate, and break the relationship with the leading point producer on the team.

Zamula, Frost, Allison and York dicked around. Farabee called out after coming back early from neck surgery. TDA benched. TK sat. Risto sat. Hart called out for needing to get used to playing more to help the team, irregardless of being tired.

Some of the above things are whatever, but add it all together - and it’s a masterful coaching job.

Tortorella is a POS, and the worst HC in my lifetime. That’s saying something. 3 months in

The others might have been terrible at their job, but for the most part kept professional. This idiot is just an asshole.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I think I know the crew that can help solve this mystery...

Spoiler

Once we finish executing him we will be on our way

 

[pit]

How are you supposed to coach offense?

Torts doesn't coach offense, Sirianni doesn't coach defense. That's why you have assistant coaches.

So offense can be coached now?

 

[freakydallas13]

They're going about it the hardest and least productive, but safest, way. That's why there's failure relative to other teams. They fail by design. As ever. This team has no feel for the pulse of the game in 2022 and they hire appropriately.

God forbid this team attempt to be anything other than "safe".

This team is trying to compete in a cutting competition, and while other teams are using knives and sharp scissors, Charles is using safety scissors. Has no idea why everyone else is lapping him, but thank god he's insulated from cutting himself.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Torts' teams don't quit on him, he burns himself out. So far, he seems a lot calmer than in the past, age does mellow you, though in his case it's relative, a mellow Torts is still wound tighter than most HCs.

Most of his players love him, he's one of the few HCs who actually cares about his players as people, not just assets.
In that sense he's the anti-AV. Given that offensive players like St. Louis, Panarin, Atkinson, et al. thrived under him, the idea that Torts is opposed to offense is silly, he's even said he expects players to TK and Frost to be primarily offense oriented, he just wants them skating hard off the puck - but he's not asking them to play like Cates.

Torts is exactly what this team needed, the Flyers have been sloppy the last five years outside of one season under AV, and going back further, when was the last time a Flyers team was 'Hard to play against." Even the better teams basically rode a top 1st line (basically G and Couts) to success, it was never a team effort.

this team is not hard to play against in any way.

This core group will quit as they have previously.

 

[Striiker]

Actually no players have had good years under Torts.

They’ve had years where they stat padded, but that’s not the same thing.

 

[BernieParent]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

3 months into his tenure HC has managed to completely alienate, and break the relationship with the leading point producer on the team.

Zamula, Frost, Allison and York dicked around. Farabee called out after coming back early from neck surgery. TDA benched. TK sat. Risto sat. Hart called out for needing to get used to playing more to help the team, irregardless of being tired.

Some of the above things are whatever, but add it all together - and it’s a masterful coaching job.

Tortorella is a POS, and the worst HC in my lifetime. That’s saying something. 3 months in

The others might have been terrible at their job, but for the most part kept professional. This idiot is just an asshole.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

People keep saying why would they buy Hayes out? It’s the most forward option to getting Hayes off the roster. I don’t see this relationship changing between him & Tortorella. Hayes is who he is. They’re not going want to keep an unhappy player there.

I don’t blame a team for not wanting an unhappy person around. It’s not good for any work environment. But it’s classic Flyers they’re always investing poorly into these players to the point they eventually find themselves in between a rock & hard place.

Hayes is the same style of player he’s always been but now he’s getting older so you’re just seeing natural decline added in. Unsurprisingly half way through his contract he became unnecessary at best given what we know about the age curve & what was Hayes starting off point at the time of the contract.

 

[renberg]

Presently living in Ohio, I have seen what Torts did with the Jackets. When he came here they were garbage. Now that he's gone, they're garbage again. In between they became a team that played above its talent level. He has his detractors; every coach does. Still the vast majority of his players respect him. So do the fans as we saw in the response that they had for him for his first game back in town this fall. He sure isn't Scotty Bowman behind the bench but his teams usually show improvement over time.
If Torts pisses off Kevin Hayes, I'm happy. Hayes play on the ice pisses me off. Every night he shows what a dog of a player he is. If some club was crazy enough to take him off of the Flyers' hands the club would be winning by subtraction.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

People keep saying why would they buy Hayes out? It’s the most forward option to getting Hayes off the roster. I don’t see this relationship changing between him & Tortorella. Hayes is who he is. They’re not going want to keep an unhappy player there.

I don’t blame a team for not wanting an unhappy person around. It’s not good for any work environment. But it’s classic Flyers they’re always investing poorly into these players to the point they eventually find themselves in between a rock & hard place.

Hayes is the same style of player he’s always been but now he’s getting older so you’re just seeing natural decline added in. Unsurprisingly half way through his contract he became unnecessary at best given what we know about the age curve & what was Hayes starting off point at the time of the contract.

The options being A) tie an asset or two to Hayes to ship him out or B) buy him out is just another example of Fletcher's top notch management job and yet he'll still be defended until the end of the Earth (along with Hayes) despite saying that they aren't actually defending either.

It really is inconceivable how this became reality.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

f***ing Zing of the century... hahah omg i laughing so hard right meow

 

[deadhead]

Great players played great.... more at 11.

Please provide proof that most players love playing for Torts. Now before you go and get some quotes from a couple players please know that having a few people come out and support him doesn't mean that most players love playing for him. It could very likely just mean that, unlike Torts, some people just don't want to be assholes by putting their neck out there and calling him out because they gain nothing out of it.

There were only two players who criticized Torts that I could find, one was a marginal player whose name I forget, hardly lasted a season in the NHL, the other was Dubinsky, who was fine with Torts until he was demoted to the third then fourth line his last two seasons in CBJ. Given Dubinsky was then out of the league it seemed more sour grapes than anything else, a player who simply didn't want to accept his skills had declined.

Numerous former players have praised him, including Hartnell, who you would not think was a Tort's "type."
Atkinson was a 6th rd pick, St. Louis a UDFA, it's not just the uber-talented like Panarin who thrived under him.

He clashed with Johansen who was then traded for Seth Jones.

He clashed with other players, like Dubois, who said it didn't bother him (his dad was a coach), and who was explicit that his issue was with the GM, not Torts, in forcing a trade.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

There were only two players who criticized Torts that I could find, one was a marginal player whose name I forget, hardly lasted a season in the NHL, the other was Dubinsky, who was fine with Torts until he was demoted to the third then fourth line his last two seasons in CBJ. Given Dubinsky was then out of the league it seemed more sour grapes than anything else, a player who simply didn't want to accept his skills had declined.

Numerous former players have praised him, including Hartnell, who you would not think was a Tort's "type."
Atkinson was a 6th rd pick, St. Louis a UDFA, it's not just the uber-talented like Panarin who thrived under him.

He clashed with Johansen who was then traded for Seth Jones.

He clashed with other players, like Dubois, who said it didn't bother him (his dad was a coach), and who was explicit that his issue was with the GM, not Torts, in forcing a trade.

Please provide proof that most players love playing for Torts. Now I see that you went and found some examples of players "praising" Torts please know that having a few people come out and support him doesn't mean that most players love playing for him. It could very likely just mean that, unlike Torts, some people just don't want to be assholes by putting their neck out there and calling him out because they gain nothing out of it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Please provide proof that most players love playing for Torts. Now I see that you went and found some examples of players "praising" Torts please know that having a few people come out and support him doesn't mean that most players love playing for him. It could very likely just mean that, unlike Torts, some people just don't want to be assholes by putting their neck out there and calling him out because they gain nothing out of it.

How often do active players come out against coaches? It's rare. It's seen as a bad career move.

I remember being showered with players who loved AV, too. For all that meant.

 

[freakydallas13]

The options being A) tie an asset or two to Hayes to ship him out or B) buy him out is just another example of Fletcher's top notch management job and yet he'll still be defended until the end of the Earth (along with Hayes) despite saying that they aren't actually defending either.

It really is inconceivable how this became reality.

Those "we had to sign Hayes!" takes have (to the surprise of almost no one) aged like milk.

"We needed a center! We would have been bad without signing him!"

Hilariously pathetic shilling.

 

[Curufinwe]

 

[Ben Grimm]

Flyers' Kevin Hayes could be bought out in offseason

Despite being the Philadelphia Flyers leading scorer, Kevin Hayes has found himself in John Tortorella's doghouse on a few occasions this season.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Cody Webster]

He's the culmination of ten years of futility.

Holmgren started the mess, traded for and gave AMac a 6x5 deal, then hired Hextall, who had a good start, then blew 8 1st (including two top ten) and 6 2nd rd picks, signed Weise 4x2.3 and JVR 5x7, and gave Voracek an 8x8.25M deal.

Fletcher finished the team off with the Ghost/Risto deals, signing AV and Hayes 7x7.

It was a group effort, takes a village of idiots to burn it to the ground.

At least Chuck hasn't been able to blow draft picks selections, he just trades them all to get rid of superior players

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Friedman reiterated again on his podcast that the Flyers were trying to trade JvR’s contract this summer but the ask around the league was a first rounder. He didn’t specify what first rounder but said first rounder.

So you have the best insider in the business saying it for the few still saying that was never the case.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The entire league knows Fletcher is the easiest prey in the league, and the team will continue to be treated as such until he's gone completely.

 

[Rich Nixon]

I kinda wanna piss on every piece of Flyers clothing I own and mail it all to Dave Scott's house at this point.

 

[deadhead]

Friedman reiterated again on his podcast that the Flyers were trying to trade JvR’s contract this summer but the ask around the league was a first rounder. He didn’t specify what first rounder but said first rounder.

So you have the best insider in the business saying it for the few still saying that was never the case.

CBj had the same problem trying to trade Voracek after they signed JG, the asking price supposedly was a 1st plus.
That's why they gave up Bjorkstrand for peanuts.

 

[deadhead]

Those "we had to sign Hayes!" takes have (to the surprise of almost no one) aged like milk.

"We needed a center! We would have been bad without signing him!"

Hilariously pathetic shilling.

No, just the reality that Holmgren insisted on winning now when he fired Hextall, he made it clear that the half-assed rebuild was over.
And they knew Patrick was damaged goods.

I'd say about 80% of the bad decisions in the NHL are due to FO/Owner pressure to win now.