2022/23 Roster Thread XIX: 19th Nervous Breakdown

[deadhead]

I still laugh every time I read someone lazily label Torts a "dino."

Yeah, he's in his 60s. He also has repeatedly stressed the need to get rid of veterans and add more youth.

What people really don't like about him is: 1) He'll criticize their favorite players on occasion; and 2) he stresses defense-first.

I swear some fans here think that all a coach needs to do is design a "Flying V" or similar whiteboard scheme and suddenly a team will become offensive wizards.

I don't think it so much that he stresses defense first, rather, he stresses defensive fundamentals.
If I were to use one phrase for his style of play, it would be "controlled aggression."

His aggressive forecheck is not "defense first," it leads to odd man rushes the other way, which is why he stresses back checking, get back and you limit the time that rush has to make a play.

1) forwards have to back check consistently, including offensive players, no cherry picking or half assed skating
2) win board battles at both ends of the ice to gain and keep possession
3) block shots
4) don't force entries, if you can't make a clean entry, dump it rather than turn it over at the blue line, it's not that he wants them to dump, he just doesn't want players who can't beat a defender to get stripped of the puck

He also wants defensemen, especially the more offensively talented players, to be aggressive attacking the O-zone, but forwards have to be aware and rotate to CYA for defensemen.

Nor does he have the same expectations for different players
* he wants Allison to play N/S but under control, not blindly attacking at full speed into the boards
* he wants Tippett to attack the net, not snipe from 20'
* he wants Frost to consistently make plays on offense, not go MIA for periods
and so on

 

[Striiker]

My god, the Racist has been a tire fire lol

And people still swear he's better than Goatisbehere.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don't think it so much that he stresses defense first, rather, he stresses defensive fundamentals.
If I were to use one phrase for his style of play, it would be "controlled aggression."

His aggressive forecheck is not "defense first," it leads to odd man rushes the other way, which is why he stresses back checking, get back and you limit the time that rush has to make a play.

1) forwards have to back check consistently, including offensive players, no cherry picking or half assed skating
2) win board battles at both ends of the ice to gain and keep possession
3) block shots
4) don't force entries, if you can't make a clean entry, dump it rather than turn it over at the blue line, it's not that he wants them to dump, he just doesn't want players who can't beat a defender to get stripped of the puck

He also wants defensemen, especially the more offensively talented players, to be aggressive attacking the O-zone, but forwards have to be aware and rotate to CYA for defensemen.

Nor does he have the same expectations for different players
* he wants Allison to play N/S but under control, not blindly attacking at full speed into the boards
* he wants Tippett to attack the net, not snipe from 20'
* he wants Frost to consistently make plays on offense, not go MIA for periods
and so on

When I say he preaches defense-first, I simply mean he wants his players to be responsible defensively & then he’ll give them some latitude to create. He doesn’t want his players focusing on offense & forgetting about defense.

Which I think is a completely reasonable approach.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I still laugh every time I read someone lazily label Torts a "dino."

Yeah, he's in his 60s. He also has repeatedly stressed the need to get rid of veterans and add more youth.

What people really don't like about him is: 1) He'll criticize their favorite players on occasion; and 2) he stresses defense-first.

I swear some fans here think that all a coach needs to do is design a "Flying V" or similar whiteboard scheme and suddenly a team will become offensive wizards.

He's a dino because he thinks it's 2003. And coaches like the league hasn't changed a whole lot in the last decade, much less the last 20 years. This is someone who prefers Barkov to McDavid.

It has nothing to do with criticism of "favorites." Either you are shit at reading comprehension or you are lying. Which is it?

These criticisms existed long before he said a word about anyone. Because he's a known commodity.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Torts is a dino because of his disdain for the youth at a base level just like every older generation has. That's not a good trait to have for a coach.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Torts is a dino because of his disdain for the youth at a base level just like every older generation has. That's not a good trait to have for a coach.

He can also be compared to Sutter who was once the same as Tortorella. I wouldn't call Sutter a dino because he has radically changed along with the game. That dude is old as hell and he's still evolving to stay relevant. Tortorella is too stubborn, arrogant, and lazy to try.

 

[wasup]

I still laugh every time I read someone lazily label Torts a "dino."

Yeah, he's in his 60s. He also has repeatedly stressed the need to get rid of veterans and add more youth.

What people really don't like about him is: 1) He'll criticize their favorite players on occasion; and 2) he stresses defense-first.

I swear some fans here think that all a coach needs to do is design a "Flying V" or similar whiteboard scheme and suddenly a team will become offensive wizards.

Dino coach is playing dump and chase and grind and he talks of this all the time instead of teaching players to read and react to what the other team is giving you . It's playing 2 D 1 F in overtime ,it's planting a player like Risto in front of the net on the pp , playing 11 F and 7d constantly , sticking square pegs in round holes { Cates on faceoffs } even though it don't work , guys playing stationary on the pp , collapsing back into a shell on the PK instead of pressuring like the top PK teams do . More of a puck possession game and east west instead his stupid North South dump and chase .

Where the hell do you want me to stop , I can keep going .

 

[Striiker]

For the tOrTs iS nOt a DiNo people, answer this question:

How many times has he healthy scratched Deslauriers this year?

Then compare that to how many times a younger player who actually has skill has been healthy scratched.

He's a dinosaur. Not debatable. Stop defending him, he's not going to sleep with you.

 

[Curufinwe]

Of course, GF% is just a fancy version of +/-.

Top xGF% (SVA) during that same period [xGFrel]:
York 52.19% [+6.62]
Seeler 46.62% [+1.22]
Sanheim 46.46% [+0.39]
Risto 46.13% [+0.37]
Braun 45.59% [-0.17]
Provorov 45.46% [-1.02]
TDA 42.54% [-5.64]
Yandle 41.40% [-5.84]

Hey, how come you left out Attard who actually has the best xGF% of the 11 defensmen in the chart you responded to? That's the 24 year old you are totally happy to have spend this entire season in the AHL.

If your beloved expected stat is so much better than fancy plus minus, why are you pretending that it doesn't exist for old Ronnie boy? Small sample sizes never bothered you before.

 

[deadhead]

Hey, how come you left out Attard who actually has the best xGF% of the 11 defensmen in the chart you responded to? That's the 24 year old you are totally happy to have spend this entire season in the AHL.

If your beloved expected stat is so much better than fancy plus minus, why are you pretending that it doesn't exist for old Ronnie boy? Small sample sizes never bothered you before.

Small end of season sample.

One reason I think they want the Phantoms to make a PO run is to see kids like Desnoyers, Lcyksell, Foerster, Zamula and Attard in games that matter. AHL PO competition is a notch below the NHL but well above the AHL regular season, and less likely to give a false read than a game like Flyers - Habs next week.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Small end of season sample.

One reason I think they want the Phantoms to make a PO run is to see kids like Desnoyers, Lcyksell, Foerster, Zamula and Attard in games that matter. AHL PO competition is a notch below the NHL but well above the AHL regular season, and less likely to give a false read than a game like Flyers - Habs next week.

I veto this.

You don't get to criticize a small sample of NHL games when you also make decisions based upon a few practices you don't even watch.

 

[Magua]

Of course, GF% is just a fancy version of +/-.

Top xGF% (SVA) during that same period [xGFrel]:
York 52.19% [+6.62]
Seeler 46.62% [+1.22]
Sanheim 46.46% [+0.39]
Risto 46.13% [+0.37]
Braun 45.59% [-0.17]
Provorov 45.46% [-1.02]
TDA 42.54% [-5.64]
Yandle 41.40% [-5.84]

Now, it is possible Sanheim is the luckiest mofo in North America. Can you show me Ginning's xGF%?

 

[Adam Warlock]

It never ceases to amaze me how "what have you done for me lately?" this fan base is. Ive been seeing a lot of "maybe sanheim and farabee arent so bad" posts on social media this week. Yeah, no shit. Theyre actually some of the few good players we have...theyre just having dowm years. It happens, especially when your teams dogshit.

Same people were out on TK going into this year and thought Coots was a career 3C 8 years ago.

My biggest hope for Briere is that he can actually recognize talent for talent.

 

[deadhead]

Now, it is possible Sanheim is the luckiest mofo in North America. Can you show me Ginning's xGF%?

Unfortunately, the person who was posting that info stopped a couple years ago.
Not sure AHL metrics are available, I'd be interested in seeing them.

 

[Striiker]

The people bitching about Sanheim are people who have always irrationally hated him - either because he’s not your typical unskilled defensive goon or simply because he was an Hextall pick - and are happily talking advantage of his first period of lesser play.

Everyone else can recognize a fluke down year after multiple very good ones. Typical of Flyers fans to believe a sample size of less than a season is a better representation of who a player is than 4+ years. Same as when people get fooled by production heavily influenced by unsustainable shooting percentages.

 

[Starat327]

Ill not hear any Sanheim slander. More details to come as to why.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The people bitching about Sanheim are people who have always irrationally hated him - either because he’s not your typical unskilled defensive goon or simply because he was an Hextall pick - and are happily talking advantage of his first period of lesser play.

Everyone else can recognize a fluke down year after multiple very good ones. Typical of Flyers fans to believe a sample size of less than a season is a better representation of who a player is than 4+ years. Same as when people get fooled by production heavily influenced by unsustainable shooting percentages.

This one season is not an outlier for Sanheim, but there's a secretly good dman hiding in Risto and TDA and their ten game good streaks annually are what they really are, not the rest of their careers. Fletcher is a genius, why can't you just appreciate and worship him?

 

[Striiker]

Is this a strawman or is he just dumb?



I have never once - in any fanbase, in any sport - heard anyone ever reference “tanking” with the the idea that the players themselves should/would be the ones intentionally losing games.

It is always something that the GM does by trading away good players for assets and then replacing them with inferior placeholders. Accepting that the team will be shit, even when trying their best, and allowing it to happen for the sake of the draft position.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Guy must hate practically the entire league then if that’s the standard.

 

[Striiker]

At this point I love any team that embarrasses the Flyers

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The people bitching about Sanheim are people who have always irrationally hated him - either because he’s not your typical unskilled defensive goon or simply because he was an Hextall pick - and are happily talking advantage of his first period of lesser play.

Everyone else can recognize a fluke down year after multiple very good ones. Typical of Flyers fans to believe a sample size of less than a season is a better representation of who a player is than 4+ years. Same as when people get fooled by production heavily influenced by unsustainable shooting percentages.

Must be it, cant be anything else.

 

[deadhead]

Guy must hate practically the entire league then if that’s the standard.

First rule for married men, suck up to your wife!
Jill's a serious Philly sports fan.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[wasup]

Yes it is a good move and probably a half year or more in the AHL would be good as well .