2022/23 Roster Thread XIX: 19th Nervous Breakdown

[Striiker]

He's gotten a level of usage that the team never would have allowed him without Couturier injured for the year. That's boosted him. Atkinson out has opened a ton of ice time for Tippett too.

Fate accidentally forced the team to do right things. The reason it was considered impossible was that he wouldn't get the usage required. Circumstances dictated otherwise.

And even then they tried their best to keep Frost out of the top 6 by putting him with Deslauriers and MacEwen for a while.

Torts still goes out of his way to bitch about Frost too. Apparently he still needs to prove himself but inferior players are confirmed to be great and part of the future core.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

As Beef eluded to, it depends on depolyment, imo.

If they keep Frost at a 2C, with offensive wingers (Farabee, TK, Tippett, Atkinson, maybe even Foerster next year), then my bet would is that he increases his points total to something around 50-55 points next season...

But if when Couts comes back (and can remain healthy), if they put Cates as 2C and give Cates those wingers, and usage, then I wouldn't expect much more than 30-40 points from Frost next season. All revolves around deployment imo.

If couts is healthy and assuming Hayes gets moved, I'd go with this fwd group (barring fa, and other things) oh and can't forget about the lock on wing.....but......
Farabee couts tk
Forester frost Tippett
Laughton Cates Atkinson
Nickyd Laczynski Allison

Not bad honestly, some young pieces who can play well and contribute, not amazing by any means, but not a bottom 3 fwd group, and that's assuming cutter needs more time defense is gonna need some work lol and let's say they move provy for picks and no one comes back (for arguement sake

Sanhiem tda (hope he's gone)
York risto
Seeler attard

Hart
Ersson

 

[deadhead]

We shall see if Frost can elevate the wingers he is given now that he has a full year under his belt.

if Frost is given those wingers wont he also attract more difficult matchups against? Cates while having better wingers all year also sees other teams better players.

Cates and Frost are getting the toughest matchups this season, so if Couts comes back, life will be easier.

Farabee - Couts - TK
Atkinson - Frost - Tippett
Laughton??? - Cates - Foerster
Deslauriers/Lemieux - Desnoyers - Allison

Laczynski is on thin ice, he's not talented enough to play injured, and can't stay healthy
Brink will push for a spot in camp if he's 100%.
Lycksell has had a great AHL season, but hasn't shown much in NHL cameos.
Gauthier???

LW is an issue right now, I think Atkinson would have to move over and they still need another LW, so a veteran patch is a good possibility. Or they'll get a prospect back in a trade and give him a shot.

Right now I have Provorov and Hayes traded, maybe Laughton.

Reason to put Atkinson at LW is you'd rather have the kids get acclimated to the NHL before you start moving them out of their comfort zone.

York - Attard
Sanheim - [veteran RHD pickup]
Seeler/Zamula - Risto/TDA

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cates and Frost are getting the toughest matchups this season, so if Couts comes back, life will be easier.

Farabee - Couts - TK
Atkinson - Frost - Tippett
Laughton??? - Cates - Foerster
Deslauriers/Lemieux - Desnoyers - Allison

Laczynski is on thin ice, he's not talented enough to play injured, and can't stay healthy
Brink will push for a spot in camp if he's 100%.
Lycksell has had a great AHL season, but hasn't shown much in NHL cameos.
Gauthier???

LW is an issue right now, I think Atkinson would have to move over and they still need another LW, so a veteran patch is a good possibility. Or they'll get a prospect back in a trade and give him a shot.

Right now I have Provorov and Hayes traded, maybe Laughton.

Reason to put Atkinson at LW is you'd rather have the kids get acclimated to the NHL before you start moving them out of their comfort zone.

York - Attard
Sanheim - [veteran RHD pickup]
Seeler/Zamula - Risto/TDA

Frost will not be the 2C under Tortorella.

 

[VladDrag]

We shall see if Frost can elevate the wingers he is given now that he has a full year under his belt.

if Frost is given those wingers wont he also attract more difficult matchups against? Cates while having better wingers all year also sees other teams better players.

QoC is nowhere near as important as QoT when it comes to net impact. But even now, most of his on ice time is against the top two forwards from the opposition, while being deployed in the middle 6.

As Jojo has stated, most players play against the oppositions best lines because the opposition plays their best lines the most.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Cates and Frost are getting the toughest matchups this season, so if Couts comes back, life will be easier.

Farabee - Couts - TK
Atkinson - Frost - Tippett
Laughton??? - Cates - Foerster
Deslauriers/Lemieux - Desnoyers - Allison

Laczynski is on thin ice, he's not talented enough to play injured, and can't stay healthy
Brink will push for a spot in camp if he's 100%.
Lycksell has had a great AHL season, but hasn't shown much in NHL cameos.
Gauthier???

LW is an issue right now, I think Atkinson would have to move over and they still need another LW, so a veteran patch is a good possibility. Or they'll get a prospect back in a trade and give him a shot.

Right now I have Provorov and Hayes traded, maybe Laughton.

Reason to put Atkinson at LW is you'd rather have the kids get acclimated to the NHL before you start moving them out of their comfort zone.

York - Attard
Sanheim - [veteran RHD pickup]
Seeler/Zamula - Risto/TDA

such an underwhelming lineup. Still do not think you will both Forrest and Desnoyers in the lineup all things being equal.

so you have Attard as on the top pair. Do you want bet any money he has better chance of not being on the roster than the top pair. 6 spots on D are fully accounted for less any trades. That leaves zero open spot for someone in LHV. even if one is traded we shall what direction they go.

 

[VladDrag]

If couts is healthy and assuming Hayes gets moved, I'd go with this fwd group (barring fa, and other things) oh and can't forget about the lock on wing.....but......
Farabee couts tk
Forester frost Tippett
Laughton Cates Atkinson
Nickyd Laczynski Allison

Not bad honestly, some young pieces who can play well and contribute, not amazing by any means, but not a bottom 3 fwd group, and that's assuming cutter needs more time defense is gonna need some work lol and let's say they move provy for picks and no one comes back (for arguement sake

Sanhiem tda (hope he's gone)
York risto
Seeler attard

Hart
Ersson

As Beef said, I would be seriously be shocked if Frost gets 2C usage over Cates, if this year is anything to go off of.

 

[deadhead]

such an underwhelming lineup. Still do not think you will both Forrest and Desnoyers in the lineup all things being equal.

so you have Attard as on the top pair. Do you want bet any money he has better chance of not being on the roster than the top pair. 6 spots on D are fully accounted for less any trades. That leaves zero open spot for someone in LHV. even if one is traded we shall what direction they go.

"Top pair" doesn't mean top minutes.

A HC will mix and match throughout a game, depending on situation.
For example, TDA now starts on the 3rd pair, but gets PT in offensive situations and if they're behind and need to score, PP1, etc.

So it's more matching Attard with York, with York getting 5 more minutes a game, PK duty, PP duty, and a few extra shifts with other D-men.

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

As Beef said, I would be seriously be shocked if Frost gets 2C usage over Cates, if this year is anything to go off of.

This is another reason why new management needs a new GM and that GM needs to start over with a new coaching staff.

 

[deadhead]

As Beef said, I would be seriously be shocked if Frost gets 2C usage over Cates, if this year is anything to go off of.

They've played pretty much the same minutes at 5x5 this season.
They just have different roles.
I'd expect Frost to be the 2C, but Cates to be used more as a jack of all trades, 3C, 2LW at times, PK, PP2.
Much like Laughton the last few years.
2020-21: 15:25
2021-22: 16:25
2022-23: 18:50 [Cates 17:40]

 

[VladDrag]

They've played pretty much the same minutes at 5x5 this season.
They just have different roles.
I'd expect Frost to be the 2C, but Cates to be used more as a jack of all trades, 3C, 2LW at times, PK, PP2.
Much like Laughton the last few years.
2020-21: 15:25
2021-22: 16:25
2022-23: 18:50 [Cates 17:40]

I really more mean about linemates at 5v5. Not so much minutes. Torts has been a roller of lines this season so there isn’t huge variety in ice time for most of the top 9 players at 5v5.

If Couts is healthy next year I expect him and Cates to get the better offensive wingers, but we’ll see

This is another reason why new management needs a new GM and that GM needs to start over with a new coaching staff.

Yup. If next season Frost is deployed with inferior wingers vs Cates, that is a prime example of bad development.

 

[Kelmitchell2]

As Beef said, I would be seriously be shocked if Frost gets 2C usage over Cates, if this year is anything to go off of.

Oh I know, that's why I said I'd go with that, however they won't

 

[deadhead]

Frost and Tippett seemed joined at the hip. So it comes down to the LW.
And if Couts is healthy, he'll get a healthy Farabee on the 1st line.
So my bet would be Atkinson as a mentor for Frost at LW.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

"Top pair" doesn't mean top minutes.

A HC will mix and match throughout a game, depending on situation.
For example, TDA now starts on the 3rd pair, but gets PT in offensive situations and if they're behind and need to score, PP1, etc.

So it's more matching Attard with York, with York getting 5 more minutes a game, PK duty, PP duty, and a few extra shifts with other D-men.

Attard wont be on the team. Heard it here first.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Dave Scott sighting.

Now Ryan Ellis?

 

[Chinatown88]

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Frost will not be the 2C under Tortorella.

frankly i dont think Frost survives the off season..

i have the sneaking feeling Torts will load this team with old dog grinders when he gets firmly in Brieres ear..

i have zero faith this Org. can/will build a competitive team design for the year 2023+...

 

[deadhead]

Torts CBJ lineup in his 2nd season by ES TOI:

Foligno (29) 15:08 (15-15 30) - 157 hits
Wennberg (22) 15:06 (11-25 36)
Saad (24) 14:57 (23-27 50)
Dubinsky (30) 14:45 (10-26 36) - 248 hits
Jenner (23) 14:04 (16-15 31) - 216 hits
Atkinson (27) 13:59 (22-16 38)
Bjorkstrand (21) 12:23 (26g 6-7 13)
Anderson (22) 11:45 (17-12 29) - 147 hits
Karlsson (24) 11:33 (5-17 22)
Calvert (27) 11:30 (7-4 11)
Gagner (27) 11:16 (10-22 32)
Hartnell (34) 10:38 (11-23 34)
Sedlak (23) 9:06 6-6 12)

So who were the "old dog grinders?"

 

[Columbus Hockey Dad]

frankly i dont think Frost survives the off season..

i have the sneaking feeling Torts will load this team with old dog grinders when he gets firmly in Brieres ear..

i have zero faith this Org. can/will build a competitive team design for the year 2023+...

If he could load the whole team with a bunch of Cate's and Laughton's, he would.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Torts CBJ lineup in his 2nd season by ES TOI:

Foligno (29) 15:08 (15-15 30) - 157 hits
Wennberg (22) 15:06 (11-25 36)
Saad (24) 14:57 (23-27 50)
Dubinsky (30) 14:45 (10-26 36) - 248 hits
Jenner (23) 14:04 (16-15 31) - 216 hits
Atkinson (27) 13:59 (22-16 38)
Bjorkstrand (21) 12:23 (26g 6-7 13)
Anderson (22) 11:45 (17-12 29) - 147 hits
Karlsson (24) 11:33 (5-17 22)
Calvert (27) 11:30 (7-4 11)
Gagner (27) 11:16 (10-22 32)
Hartnell (34) 10:38 (11-23 34)
Sedlak (23) 9:06 6-6 12)

So who were the "old dog grinders?"

Lets focus on the present and the summer coming up. Then we shall see. What he did on the past is just that.

I just do not see any type of real rebuild why he is the coach. None at all.

 

[deadhead]

Lets focus on the present and the summer coming up. Then we shall see. What he did on the past is just that.

I just do not see any type of real rebuild why he is the coach. None at all.

I see the opposite, just not the way people think of a rebuild here, they're not going to tear it apart or play a half dozen rookies at the same time.

This season, Frost, Cates, Tippett, York became full-time starters, Allison when healthy
Next season, Foerster, Desnoyers, Attard? Zamula? Brink? Gauthier? Prospect from a trade?
Probably 3-4 new starters.
Rinse and repeat in 2024-25.
Over a three year period, 11 or so new starters out of a total of 20 players.

Gone: Laughton, JVR, Hayes, DesLauriers, Atkinson, Lemieux/MacEwen, Brown, Bellows, Provorov, Risto, TDA, Seeler, Braun.

By 2025-26 the only veteran holdovers might be Couts, TK and Sanheim.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

I see the opposite, just not the way people think of a rebuild here, they're not going to tear it apart or play a half dozen rookies at the same time.

This season, Frost, Cates, Tippett, York became full-time starters, Allison when healthy
Next season, Foerster, Desnoyers, Attard? Zamula? Brink? Gauthier? Prospect from a trade?
Probably 3-4 new starters.
Rinse and repeat in 2024-25.
Over a three year period, 11 or so new starters out of a total of 20 players.

Gone: Laughton, JVR, Hayes, DesLauriers, Atkinson, Lemieux/MacEwen, Brown, Bellows, Provorov, Risto, TDA, Seeler, Braun.

By 2025-26 the only veteran holdovers might be Couts, TK and Sanheim.

This is where we differ. They will acquire a couple of vet slug torts type players. Both on offense and defense

Laughton will not be gone. Why do you think this?

Also way to many assumptions on who else will be dealt. Risto aint going anywhere until maybe maybe the last year of his deal. No one is taking that contract in the next 2 years even with 50% retention. He does nothing to help a team get over the hump at his discounted 50% cost. Cam also will likely not be moved unless he has a very good next season. Then maybe you trade him at the 2025 deadline. Hayes has value at 50% so i can see him dealt. I can easily see Seeler resigned to a 1 year ext.

Of the bold how many break camp with the Flyers do you think?

Well by 2025 TK is a free agents. There is zero need to then sign him to 8 year big money deal. None. Look at the conference. Flyers so far behind majority of the teams.

 

[deadhead]

Risto will find buyers with money retained, Yzerman gave 31 year old Chariot 4yr/$19M.
Risto at 30 would be 3x5 with a cap that's rising over his last 3 seasons.

Cam has 2 years left, he might be moved next summer as a favor, though they'll want some veterans - and I'm sure Torts would prefer Couts and Atkinson over JVR and Hayes.

TDA has one year left, probably moved at the TDL.

Laughton has 3x3 on his contract, easily moved at any time.

Seeler is on a two way deal, if a contender has some injuries . . .

Deslauriers after next season will be 2x1.75 with no NTC, retain $500K and no problem moving him.

Simply shouldn't be any problem clearing out the remaining veterans over the next two seasons.
At that point, Couts is the only long-term veteran contract (Ellis' contract won't be dealt until the last season b/c salary > cap hit until then).

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Risto will find buyers with money retained, Yzerman gave 31 year old Chariot 4yr/$19M.
Risto at 30 would be 3x5 with a cap that's rising over his last 3 seasons.

Cam has 2 years left, he might be moved next summer as a favor, though they'll want some veterans - and I'm sure Torts would prefer Couts and Atkinson over JVR and Hayes.

TDA has one year left, probably moved at the TDL.

Laughton has 3x3 on his contract, easily moved at any time.

Seeler is on a two way deal, if a contender has some injuries . . .

Deslauriers after next season will be 2x1.75 with no NTC, retain $500K and no problem moving him.

Simply shouldn't be any problem clearing out the remaining veterans over the next two seasons.
At that point, Couts is the only long-term veteran contract (Ellis' contract won't be dealt until the last season b/c salary > cap hit until then).

Risto: That is your opinion. Mine differs greatly. Ben is >>>>> than Risto by a huge margin.

Cam: who will want him? He needs to get on the ice. Or if LTIR then yes next summer he may be moved for cap purposes.

Tony D: agree

Laughton: yes very moveable: now. Diff is they do not want to move him. Now is the time to do that. They will miss the boat as usual.

Seeler: see Laughton above. They choose to keep him. His 2 way deal mean nothing at all. Why you keep mentioning it?

Nic D: after next season he will be that much worse. No trade value to me though can be buried in the AHL.

Flyers have moveable parts. They choose to keep them and running it back. Insanity.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

If he could load the whole team with a bunch of Cate's and Laughton's, he would.

you forgot shittruck and rascist tagteam