2022/23 Roster Thread XIX: 19th Nervous Breakdown

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Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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This was quite generous of you. :laugh:


I can't even imagine what Lindros would have been like in today's game where you can no longer "clutch and grab." and there's no hitting a defenseless player. He would have been unstoppable.

His opinions have validity but I could deal without his berating of others.

This forum has been wrong so many times. I remember threads upon threads of how awesome Provorov was and he was a #1. Oops.
 
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Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,288
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Pennsylvania
His opinions have validity but I could deal without his berating of others.

This forum has been wrong so many times. I remember threads upon threads of how awesome Provorov was and he was a #1. Oops.

And I was regularly getting angry responses when I would tell people Provorov was NOT a #1 or the Flyers best defensemen, long before the majority of this forum came to grips with that reality. ;)
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
7,170
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And I was regularly getting angry responses when I would tell people Provorov was NOT a #1 or the Flyers best defensemen, long before the majority of this forum came to grips with that reality. ;)
I said Provorov wasn't a #1 years ago and I wasn't impressed by him and I probably took flack for it but I didn't feel the need to just attack others. Same with Gostisbehere being better than Laughton.

You'd be far better served if you didn't just resort to angry responses anytime someone disagrees with you.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,288
156,975
Pennsylvania
I said Provorov wasn't a #1 years ago and I wasn't impressed by him and I probably took flack for it but I didn't feel the need to just attack others. Same with Gostisbehere being better than Laughton.

You'd be far better served if you didn't just resort to angry responses anytime someone disagrees with you.
Nobody was attacked. Nobody was angry.

I made an objective statement about a player, you responded out of nowhere and made accusations about my "blind bias" and "objectivity", all while not even reading what I was actually writing.
 

Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
7,170
7,894
Nobody was attacked. Nobody was angry.

I made an objective statement about a player, you responded out of nowhere and made accusations about my "blind bias" and "objectivity", all while not even reading what I was actually writing.

I'd say you interjecting the conversation with my opinion of football QBs and dismissing my argument that way is an angry response. You added a lot of irrevelant conversation to the post to suit your argument/narrative.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,288
156,975
Pennsylvania
I'd say you interjecting the conversation with my opinion of football QBs and dismissing my argument that way is an angry response. You added a lot of irrevelant conversation to the post to suit your argument/narrative.
Nope, that was giving an example of the issue I was mentioning, which popped up yet again in this conversation. You need to be more skeptical of the narratives you're fed by the dinosaurs in sports media.

In fact, you're the one who started bringing up other topics to try to discredit my statement first. Was this an angry response too?

Sometimes you have zero objectively to the situation. Heck you don't believe Gretzky was the best or anywhere close to the best so that's a bit telling.
 

Striiker

Former Flyers Fan
Jun 2, 2013
90,288
156,975
Pennsylvania
And also, let's settle this nonsense by either forcing you to go on record as either a) insanely high on the player or b) arguing for no reason

611e8166805313590eca7b9e72285a4f.png
 

Columbus Hockey Dad

Registered User
Oct 30, 2018
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And I was regularly getting angry responses when I would tell people Provorov was NOT a #1 or the Flyers best defensemen, long before the majority of this forum came to grips with that reality. ;)
I think for the most part, it's the high level of condescension and snobbery I pickup with you that rubs me the wrong way. Whether you're right or wrong on your opinions, it's hard to see past the snobbery.

McDavid is better than Gretzky
Lemieux was better than both.
 

Columbus Hockey Dad

Registered User
Oct 30, 2018
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Who's the last top notch sniper the Flyers have had.
TK has his moments, but he's been an inconsistent shooter.
Voracek?
Some of you probably don't remember this, but I remember when we traded Tocchet for Recchi. He was so fun to watch when he got here because we hadn't seen a genuine sniper in years. I remember watching games waiting to seem in snap one by the goaltender. It feels like that now. It's been so many years since we've had a sniper that people don't know what one actually is as we still don't have one.
 
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freakydallas13

Registered User
Jan 30, 2007
7,561
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big players
a big fast center
I'm not saying big players are bad necessarily, but you touched on it with your "beware the big man" part. Valuing a lesser player because they are "big" is the calling card of this franchise, and a one of the reasons their drafting has been terrible for at least a decade.

I'm also not saying Gauthier will bust, but the emphasis on bigness combined with the organization that calls him a center already and values shooters too highly is setting this pick up for failure before he ever hits NHL ice.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
51,054
22,226
I'm not saying big players are bad necessarily, but you touched on it with your "beware the big man" part. Valuing a lesser player because they are "big" is the calling card of this franchise, and a one of the reasons their drafting has been terrible for at least a decade.

I'm also not saying Gauthier will bust, but the emphasis on bigness combined with the organization that calls him a center already and values shooters too highly is setting this pick up for failure before he ever hits NHL ice.
Big has value in certain roles, at center, a big center with speed who plays defense can carry wings who are offense first. Couts is so smart he does it without speed, but that's asking a lot of any player to match his IQ.

Reason you try wings at center first is same reason NFL teams try athletic lineman at tackle first, and ML teams OFs in CF, more value if they can handle it, and if they're just passable, insurance against injuries.

They'll give Gauthier every opportunity to show he can handle center, the way they've stuck with Cates and why they left Desnoyers there. On the other hand, they've pretty much concluded that Laughton is really a LW who can fill in at center.
 

Magua

Entirely Palatable Product
Apr 25, 2016
38,673
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Huron of the Lakes
His opinions have validity but I could deal without his berating of others.

This forum has been wrong so many times. I remember threads upon threads of how awesome Provorov was and he was a #1. Oops.

But who is wrong? Because the same people -- the hardcore prospect watchers, whose opinions I trust more than any professional scout or scouting service -- were definitely not the biggest Provorov supporters. All the flaws we see today were pointed out by others since I've been here. These same people are the ones who didn't like the Ratcliffe pick (and were screaming for Robertson as a fringe top 10 talent), didn't like the Tuomaala pick (again, ranking Stankoven similarly to Robertson) They had nuanced opinions on York and Foerster that seem a lot closer to the truth than the team's opinions. Certainly, we could go through dozens and dozens of spot-on evaluations for players that aren't even Flyers property.

My point being these are the SAME people who are the ones watching Gauthier and saying he's a dressed up winger. That his ceiling is probably a 2nd line complementary winger, although the PP can be a swing trait. And that's not any more a condemnation than saying Provorov was always a dressed up 2/3 guy, which daydreamy people took to heart.

Gauthier isn't much of a play driver or play controller, with processing on the average side at best. His shot-pass selection is heavily leaning towards low % shots, with not much in the way of below dots/royal road passing. He has above average wheels and entry abilities, in combination with his hands -- not to the degree of someone as athletic as Tippett, but it is noticeably good. In the offensive zone, he doesn't play that big and prefers to hang around off-puck. All that said, I think he exceeded expectations as a freshman, but I think that's more an acknowledgment of what he does well projecting well instead of growth in what he doesn't do well. His projections 1 year ago don't feel different, just more likely, which is not meant in a bad way.
 

Chinatown88

1 year 1 month 1 day and counting
Jan 17, 2012
24,993
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The Universe
But who is wrong? Because the same people -- the hardcore prospect watchers, whose opinions I trust more than any professional scout or scouting service -- were definitely not the biggest Provorov supporters. All the flaws we see today were pointed out by others since I've been here. These same people are the ones who didn't like the Ratcliffe pick (and were screaming for Robertson as a fringe top 10 talent), didn't like the Tuomaala pick (again, ranking Stankoven similarly to Robertson) They had nuanced opinions on York and Foerster that seem a lot closer to the truth than the team's opinions. Certainly, we could go through dozens and dozens of spot-on evaluations for players that aren't even Flyers property.

My point being these are the SAME people who are the ones watching Gauthier and saying he's a dressed up winger. That his ceiling is probably a 2nd line complementary winger, although the PP can be a swing trait. And that's not any more a condemnation than saying Provorov was always a dressed up 2/3 guy, which daydreamy people took to heart.

Gauthier isn't much of a play driver or play controller, with processing on the average side at best. His shot-pass selection is heavily leaning towards low % shots, with not much in the way of below dots/royal road passing. He has above average wheels and entry abilities, in combination with his hands -- not to the degree of someone as athletic as Tippett, but it is noticeably good. In the offensive zone, he doesn't play that big and prefers to hang around off-puck. All that said, I think he exceeded expectations as a freshman, but I think that's more an acknowledgment of what he does well projecting well instead of growth in what he doesn't do well. His projections 1 year ago don't feel different, just more likely, which is not meant in a bad way.
This is a lot of praise for @BigToe
 
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