2022/23 Roster Thread XIX: 19th Nervous Breakdown

[Striiker]

TK with Cates at ES
369 min

TK with Frost at ES
99 min

ES points?
Frost 25
Cates 21

 

[deadhead]

Those 38 games:

Frost w/ Tippett xGF 50.15%, GF/60: 3.80
Frost w/o Tippett xGF 48.15%, GF/60: 0.95
Tippett w/o Frost xGF 53.12%, GF/60: 2.24

Cates w/ TK xGF 47.12%, GF/60: 2.58
Cates w/o TK xGF 50.74%, GF/60: 1.99
Tk w/o Cates xGF 53.19%, GF/60: 2.37

 

[Magua]

Next to useless information without context. But you know that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cates 13:58 at ES
Frost 13:29 at ES

Those 38 games:

Frost w/ Tippett xGF 50.15%, GF/60: 3.80
Frost w/o Tippett xGF 48.15%, GF/60: 0.95
Tippett w/o Frost xGF 53.12%, GF/60: 2.24

Cates w/ TK xGF 47.12%, GF/60: 2.58
Cates w/o TK xGF 50.74%, GF/60: 1.99
Tk w/o Cates xGF 53.19%, GF/60: 2.37

How about since Dec 7, when the lines were set.
5x5 TOI:
TK 14:33
Laughton 14:10 - Off zone starts 45.25%, Off Zone FO 46.70%
Tippett 13:57
Frost 13:54 - Off zone starts 63.23%, Off Zone FO 59.65%
Cates 13:51 - Off zone starts 43.62%, Off Zone FO 44.65%
Hayes 13:48 (moved to LW)
JVR 13:12
Farabee 12:54
Allison 12:24

Frost most common wingers, JVR, Tippett
Cates, Farabee, TK
Laughton, Hayes, Allison

 

[deadhead]

Tippett is that good, Frost is a better playmaker, but Tippett doesn't go MIA for long periods anymore, Frost does.
Tippett is still a work in progress, as he gets more experience, the game will slow down.
Size, speed, skill and a high motor, it would be nice if he had a high hockey IQ, but he's probably around average.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tippett is that good, Frost is a better playmaker, but Tippett doesn't go MIA for long periods anymore, Frost does.
Tippett is still a work in progress, as he gets more experience, the game will slow down.
Size, speed, skill and a high motor, it would be nice if he had a high hockey IQ, but he's probably around average.

This is contradictory. If he lacks the high hockey IQ, then the game won't slow down.

 

[deadhead]

I don't think Briere or a new GM will make an immediate difference in their off-season plans and moves.
What will matter more is that the organization seems committed to a long-term rebuild.
That means they don't need to preserve cap room to make short-term moves to be competitive, and can just focus on acquiring assets.

Torts judgement of "keepers" will be a key.
Getting value out of players under contract means they may be patient with players they want to move, conversely, players where they have to decide to extend may get moved with a year left.

Couts - here as long as he wants to be
Atkinson - Torts favorite but also 34 next season, needs to rehabilitate his rep with a good season, but might want to finish his career on a PO team.
TK - tough call, two years left, do you sell or commit, arguments both way.
Farabee - he gets a mulligan due to the neck surgery, plus, they don't want to sell low
Tippett - he's staying
Frost - if he can consistently bring it he's staying, he'll get a full shot at showing he belongs
Cates - he's staying
Laughton - Torts really likes him, but he'll be 29 next season, 3x3 makes him very attractive.
JVR - bye, nice knowing ya
Hayes - I doubt they'd buy him out, but they may retain 50% and take what they can get
Allison - they'll listen to offers, he's 26 next year
Laczynski - see Allison, but he probably has to stay healthy before anyone would be interested
Deslauriers - he'd waive the NTC for a winner, but they may wait a year, then eat $500K
Bellow - don't let the door hit you on the way out

Provorov - I don't think the rainbow thang will matter, rather, frustration with his lack of progress
York - a keeper
Sanheim - tough, can't move him off a miserable season with that extension, but in a year or two???
Risto - Shaw has cleaned him up, they may wait a year, see if he can progress, then retain with 3 years left
TDA - think they try to clean up his defense, then flip him at next year's TDL
Seeler - they'll be open to offers once young D-men push him aside
Braun - here's a gold watch for your faithful service

 

[deadhead]

I can believe a major shakeup is coming, and I don't need inside sources.
It's obvious the fan base is unhappy, ticket sales and ratings are declining, and there a lot of negative national attention.

At some point Comcast Corporate knows they can't let this fester, and throwing Fletcher to the wolves (inevitable at this point, Vegas probably has it 10:1 he's fired within a week of the end of the season) won't be enough - it's gone well past that point.

I think Scott is put out to pasture, this happened under his watch, and they can allow him to gracefully "retire" given his age. And if he goes, I suspect the advisors will soon follow.

And I didn't have "inside sources."

 

[Cody Webster]

Is this good?

Shayne Gostisbehere saga shows how Flyers make talent disappear

How the Flyers got nothing for one of Carolina’s top 4 defensemen.

www.broadstreethockey.com

 

[BrindamoursNose]

And I didn't have "inside sources."

All of this was obvious by the time you said it. But you defended them up until that point.

I'm stunned you could even get yourself out of bed after the Fletcher firing considering how much you defended that guy's body of work.

 

[deadhead]

All of this was obvious by the time you said it. But you defended them up until that point.

I'm stunned you could even get yourself out of bed after the Fletcher firing considering how much you defended that guy's body of work.

I just don't pile on like the rest of you, b/c I don't need your approval, so I don't suck up to the prevailing opinion.

I didn't think Fletcher did a good job, but people exaggerate the quality of the team he inherited b/c here it's all about 'heroes and villains', much like American politics these days. He was put in a tough spot, Holmgren mandated a "win now" approach, Fletcher did a good job that first off-season building a playoff team without giving up significant resources. Then the wheels fell off starting in the summer of 2021.

Fletcher made a bad situation worse, but he didn't create the mess. That took a decade.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Got bored again and made a wild team for next year:

 

[deadhead]

If I were to guess next year's lineup:

Atkinson - Couts - TK
Farabee - Frost - Tippett
Lycksell - Cates - Foerster
Deslauriers - Desnoyers - Allison
Laczynski

York - TDA
Sanheim - Risto
Zamula - Attard
Seeler

JVR, Braun, Bellows, Lemieux FA
Hayes, Provorov, Laughton traded

TDA traded at the TDL, Andrae comes up
Risto, Deslauriers traded next summer

Gauthier is the wildcard

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

And I didn't have "inside sources."

You’re acting as if you’re some savant here.

These are all things that this entire board has said would be the case. This organization does the most obvious thing EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Also, no one exaggerates anything. Our stances are misrepresented intentionally in order to defend indefensible positions.

 

[deadhead]

You’re acting as if you’re some savant here.

These are all things that this entire board has said would be the case. This organization does the most obvious thing EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Also, no one exaggerates anything. Our stances are misrepresented intentionally in order to defend indefensible positions.

Yeah, by the way, I got a bridge I can sell you.

 

[Lindberg]

I just don't pile on like the rest of you, b/c I don't need your approval, so I don't suck up to the prevailing opinion.

I didn't think Fletcher did a good job, but people exaggerate the quality of the team he inherited b/c here it's all about 'heroes and villains', much like American politics these days. He was put in a tough spot, Holmgren mandated a "win now" approach, Fletcher did a good job that first off-season building a playoff team without giving up significant resources. Then the wheels fell off starting in the summer of 2021.

Fletcher made a bad situation worse, but he didn't create the mess. That took a decade.

I don't know if you're just being contradictory just to be a contrarian or whether your opinion is just that awful.

Chuck Fletcher was the GM for almost half a decade.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I just don't pile on like the rest of you, b/c I don't need your approval, so I don't suck up to the prevailing opinion.

I didn't think Fletcher did a good job, but people exaggerate the quality of the team he inherited b/c here it's all about 'heroes and villains', much like American politics these days. He was put in a tough spot, Holmgren mandated a "win now" approach, Fletcher did a good job that first off-season building a playoff team without giving up significant resources. Then the wheels fell off starting in the summer of 2021.

Fletcher made a bad situation worse, but he didn't create the mess. That took a decade.

Fletcher took significant assets & cap space...and made it 50x worse

He had 1 offseason of making the team competitive - almost entirely with Hextall's players - and then it fell apart after 1 offseason under his tutelage. Just 1.

 

[freakydallas13]

You’re acting as if you’re some savant here.

These are all things that this entire board has said would be the case. This organization does the most obvious thing EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Also, no one exaggerates anything. Our stances are misrepresented intentionally in order to defend indefensible positions.

He doesn't need our approval, but he sure as hell needs to correct everyone who is wrong (which is everyone but him).

 

[deadhead]

Fletcher took significant assets & cap space...and made it 50x worse

He had 1 offseason of moving the team competitive - almost entirely with Hextall's players, and then it fell apart after 1 offseason under his tutelage. Just 1.

That's not exaggeration?

He made significant changes to the 2019-20 team, Niskanen, Braun (2 top 4 D-men), Hayes, Pitlick. Other than Hayes, short-term patches. Braun cost a net 2nd, Niskanen, Gudas.

It fell apart b/c it wasn't sustainable. Look where all those players from the 2019 team are today. The only player gone from that team worth anything is G, and they got value for him, the rest, meh. The window was barely open, and shut quickly.

Fletcher blew the 2021 off-season and 2022 spring. But that wasn't what deep sixed the franchise.

 

[Striiker]

Imagine throwing away

1st
2nd
2nd
2nd
2nd
3rd
3rd
4th
4th
5th
5th
Giroux
Voracek
Ghost

... and getting nothing of real value in return and turning a team on the rise with tons of assets into a bottom 10 team with no cap space, no present, and no future.

Not to mention the horrendous contracts given out.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Other than Hayes,

Mrs Salary Cap otherwise loved the play. Thanks for asking.

Braun cost a net 2nd

Justin Braun cost the draft picks to acquire him plus the cap space used plus the thousands of Minutes of ice time that could have been used on a better player plus the value lost in kicking a draft pick 3 years down the road.

 

[Striiker]

Justin Braun cost the draft picks to acquire him plus the cap space used plus the thousands of Minutes of ice time that could have been used on a better player plus the value lost in kicking a draft pick 3 years down the road.

Boy ohhhhh boy do I remember bringing up this exact issue when the trades were made. Got repeatedly guaranteed by posters angry with my concerns that there was no way Braun would steal usage from Ghost and that he wouldn't even be used in the top 4.

As always, doubting Fletcher and AV's competence was the correct move.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Boy ohhhhh boy do I remember bringing up this exact issue when the trades were made. Got repeatedly guaranteed by posters angry with my concerns that there was no way Braun would steal usage from Ghost and that he wouldn't even be used in the top 4.

As always, doubting Fletcher and AV's competence was the correct move.

So you don't want me to remind you that despite how it ended, Braun was the top pair acquisition and Niskanen was on the 2nd?

 

[Striiker]

So you don't want me to remind you that despite how it ended, Braun was the top pair acquisition and Niskanen was on the 2nd?

Don't you worry, I remember everything.

I remember when I pointed out after the trades that Braun was the one Fletcher said was added for his on-ice play, specifically saying it was not for intangibles, but Niskanen was said to have been added to help the kids. Was told I was wrong. Braun was going to be on the 3rd pair or the bench.

Ghost never had a chance, even though clearly he was the only defensemen who should have had a top 4 spot locked in.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I remember people were saying with the trade back for York, the Flyers basically got Braun for free. Weird way of saying Boldy. This board was wild back then.

And remember they traded for one season of Braun. And that season turned out to be a partial season due to Covid. The general willingness by hockey fans' to ignore contract status when evaluating trades is befuddling. If you want to bet on the Braun types, that's fine, but you can't pay top of the market value. It was just the tip of the iceberg as every acquisition followed the same theme.