2022/23 Roster Thread XIX: 19th Nervous Breakdown

[Fire Tortorella]

Thought this was interesting - Dom Luszczyszyn of The Athletic has Cates 4th in Selke voting.

The most curious name on the list has to be Philadelphia’s Noah Cates. With Sean Couturier out, someone had to step up defensively and Cates has done shockingly well. With Cates on the ice, the Flyers allow just 1.69 goals against per 60 and 2.47 expected goals against per 60, both of which are among the team’s best. Relative to teammates, Cates’ impact on goals against ranks fourth in the league while his impact on expected goals against ranks 14th. That’s in relatively tough minutes in a defensive role. He won’t get much love this year, but his presence on the list so deep into the season means he’s worth keeping an eye on in the future. The Flyers might have a hidden defensive gem on their hands.

 

[deadhead]

Thought this was interesting - Dom Luszczyszyn of The Athletic has Cates 4th in Selke voting.

That's not surprising, he's done a great job given he's a rookie moving to center and getting the toughest defensive assignments.

Cates is similar to Laughton, less physically talented but a lot smarter. He's going to be a top defensive center, in that role he doesn't have to be great offensively, Pageau has built a long career as a top defender and mediocre offensive center. If he's a 3C who garners 30+ ES points, a few SH points, maybe some PP2 points, gets the tough matchups and big PK minutes he's got a lot of value.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

31 Thoughts

Which of the 32 teams did you remove from your brain? Was it the Flyers? I bet it was the Flyers.

 

[Rebels57]

ASF has talked about this on his podcasts over time. He didn’t put an actual number down. But he said the end of last year the Flyers were probably lucky to get about 5K in actual people to show up (live attendance not paid) but this year they’ve probably more so been in like the 5K-10K range most nights. He said they are comping like crazy this year which has made the building not look that empty so far. Their business model is essentially comping tickets to get people through the gate & get the money back through parking, concessions, merch, etc.

And yet, somehow Fletcher is still not worried about his job.

Remarkable.

 

[Rebels57]

Thought this was interesting - Dom Luszczyszyn of The Athletic has Cates 4th in Selke voting.

Imagine if we did the right thing and tanked properly and lucked into Bedard and then traded Hayes? We could be heading into next season with

Bedard
Couturier
Frost
Cates

Down the middle. Suddenly things wouldn't look so relentlessly grim.

 

[deadhead]

Imagine if we did the right thing and tanked properly and lucked into Bedard and then traded Hayes? We could be heading into next season with

Bedard
Couturier
Frost
Cates

Down the middle. Suddenly things wouldn't look so relentlessly grim.

We're the Flyers, we'd end up with #2 and the next Patrick.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Imagine if we did the right thing and tanked properly and lucked into Bedard and then traded Hayes? We could be heading into next season with

Bedard
Couturier
Frost
Cates

Down the middle. Suddenly things wouldn't look so relentlessly grim.

Torts would 100% ruin Bedard

 

[Rich Nixon]

Torts would 100% ruin Bedard

Yeah swap him and Cates in that center stack. Bedard gotta prove he's a real NHL man by grinding on the 4th with Nic Deslauriers and some 37 year old defensive defenseman playing his first game at wing.

 

[Bigkarl]

Yeah swap him and Cates in that center stack. Bedard gotta prove he's a real NHL man by grinding on the 4th with Nic Deslauriers and some 37 year old defensive defenseman playing his first game at wing.

I’m thinking he needs 2 more years of juniors, a few training camps to get some fighting lessons from Stewart, and at least a year in the AHL under Lappy’s tutelage to remove any cuteness from his game and really master the dump and chase

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Imagine if we did the right thing and tanked properly and lucked into Bedard and then traded Hayes? We could be heading into next season with

Bedard
Couturier
Frost
Cates

Down the middle. Suddenly things wouldn't look so relentlessly grim.

I have zero faith the Flyers would develop Bedard properly.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

I have zero faith the Flyers would develop Bedard properly.

Yeah we once had
Giroux
Couts
Schenn
Filippula
Laughton
and we just drafted Patrick as well

 

[renberg]

Desnoyers and Foerster have been called up. We’ll wait and see if they get played. It’s time for some of the young guys at LV get some serious PT here now. Frankly I don’t care about LV and the POs. Winning a series or even the Calder Cup means nothing to me. Being a competent NHL performer does. It’s time to elevate Attard and Z as well. Knowing that they can handle being in the show next season is important. It opens up trading possibilities for others that are on the back end. This keeping players who have had a full time in their college career in the minors for more seasoning is goofy. Either they can play or they can’t. Leaving them in LV for Lappy to “develop “ is a waste.

 

[Rebels57]

I have zero faith the Flyers would develop Bedard properly.

I should have also mentioned that in this fantasy scenario, Dan Hilferty fires everyone from Dave Scott down to the equipment managers and Eric Tulsky is brought in as GM and the Flyers become a progressive organization.

 

[Chinatown88]

Which of the 32 teams did you remove from your brain? Was it the Flyers? I bet it was the Flyers.

Nah Jojo is too busy getting prepped for the NFL draft. So there only being 31 1st round picks has been drilled into his mind.

 

[Adam Warlock]

Torts would 100% ruin Bedard

Yup. The Flyers as an organization HATE young players with any degree of hype. There is nothing they despise more than a young, skilled player who walks into the NHL and has success... which is why they target and beat down these types of players. In their eyes, you have to earn your shot through hard work and paying your dues. This is why they love the Seelers and Mannings of the world...bc theyre the opposite.

A player like Bedard is their ultimate nightmare...bc he can step right in and make an impact. No way theyre gonna have an 18 year old be the face of their franchise...not without him being scratched, demoted, benched, put on the 4th line, and be publically shamed by the coach.

The only time they tried was lindros...bc he played a "flyers style". He was a diva tho so that experience just reenforces their hatred of young players.

 

[Striiker]

Thought this was interesting - Dom Luszczyszyn of The Athletic has Cates 4th in Selke voting.

First, the goals against per 60 stat really doesn't tell us much. Cates is getting extremely lucky.

0.943 on-ice save percentage at 5v5 is not sustainable and obviously not due to his play.

Second, his xGA/60 at 5v5 is 4th among forwards (with 500+ min) on the team. JVR is first.

Plus, his offense is shit.

 

[deadhead]

This is such nonsense.

Torts at least has no problem with highly skilled forwards as long as they back check and attack the O-zone instead of being cute.

Problem is the Flyers over the past decade haven't drafted many highly skilled forwards, TK, Frost, and ???
Farabee does it more on IQ than raw skill, guys like Allison, Laczynski simply aren't high skilled players.

It's hard to play an aggressive transition game and zone entry with players who aren't great skaters/passers and lack the puck handling skills and agility to avoid checks at the blue line.

 

[Beef Invictus]

This is such nonsense.

Torts at least has no problem with highly skilled forwards as long as they back check and attack the O-zone instead of being cute.

Problem is the Flyers over the past decade haven't drafted many highly skilled forwards, TK, Frost, and ???
Farabee does it more on IQ than raw skill, guys like Allison, Laczynski simply aren't high skilled players.

It's hard to play an aggressive transition game and zone entry with players who aren't great skaters/passers and lack the puck handling skills and agility to avoid checks at the blue line.

Bullshit. He's repeatedly expressed disdain of offensive skill. This year, when our forwards started playing more aggressive offense, he promptly lamented it and reigned it in. There was no defensive penalty in play. He just can't stand offense and wanted it to stop. His idea of an ideal game is one where they win 1-0 or 2-1.

 

[Striiker]

Yup. The Flyers as an organization HATE young players with any degree of hype. There is nothing they despise more than a young, skilled player who walks into the NHL and has success... which is why they target and beat down these types of players. In their eyes, you have to earn your shot through hard work and paying your dues. This is why they love the Seelers and Mannings of the world...bc theyre the opposite.

A player like Bedard is their ultimate nightmare...bc he can step right in and make an impact. No way theyre gonna have an 18 year old be the face of their franchise...not without him being scratched, demoted, benched, put on the 4th line, and be publically shamed by the coach.

The only time they tried was lindros...bc he played a "flyers style". He was a diva tho so that experience just reenforces their hatred of young players.

Yup, just look at how badly they've f***ed with Frost, simply because he had skill. Every time he did at what they asked of him, they made up some other bullshit to whine about.

Meanwhile Cates was gifted usage since day 1 and has never been benched or demoted, despite clearly being overwhelmed and not good enough for the top line.

Torts had a meltdown due to the Zegras goal... imagine him trying to coach a more skilled player.

 

[deadhead]

Cates 13:58 at ES
Frost 13:29 at ES

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Yup, just look at how badly they've f***ed with Frost, simply because he had skill. Every time he did at what they asked of him, they made up some other bullshit to whine about.

Meanwhile Cates was gifted usage since day 1 and has never been benched or demoted, despite clearly being overwhelmed and not good enough for the top line.

Torts had a meltdown due to the Zegras goal... imagine him trying to coach a more skilled player.

we dont have to worry..

100% Bedard is going to Chi. anyways.

#maximumpain

 

[VladDrag]

Cates 13:58 at ES
Frost 13:29 at ES

You are so insincere. You know this isn’t the whole story.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Cates' usage this year is basically a case study in what traditionally gets labeled as difficult Minutes, but isn't at all. For those not used to reading these charts, he mostly plays with the Flyers' top Forwards. That's what matters most.

Not speaking to Frost. Don't care. This post is about what constitutes difficult deployment.

Cates 13:58 at ES
Frost 13:29 at ES

That is dishonest by design. We all know you know better than that.

 

[deadhead]

How about since Dec 7, when the lines were set.
5x5 TOI:
TK 14:33
Laughton 14:10 - Off zone starts 45.25%, Off Zone FO 46.70%
Tippett 13:57
Frost 13:54 - Off zone starts 63.23%, Off Zone FO 59.65%
Cates 13:51 - Off zone starts 43.62%, Off Zone FO 44.65%
Hayes 13:48 (moved to LW)
JVR 13:12
Farabee 12:54
Allison 12:24

Frost most common wingers, JVR, Tippett
Cates, Farabee, TK
Laughton, Hayes, Allison

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Oh well in that case, I will make one comment about Frost.

His most common Winger since December 7th is a guy that couldn't even return a 7th rounder with 50 or maybe 75% retention at the deadline. I'm glad Ol' Torts beleives in him so much that he has him dragging that sled around. In Torts I trust!