2022/23 Roster Thread XIV: Season's Beatings

[deadhead]

Jake had negative value with that contract, Ghost had negative value with that contract.
CBJ a year later had to give away Bjorkstrand b/c they couldn't move Jake without at least a 1st rd pick going with him.
No one has shown me a better deal for a player similar to G. Not one rumor of someone offering an A" prospect (Colorado took Newhook and Byrum off the table, for example).

 

[Redpath]

The Ghost/Fisto situation was three seperate mistakes (paying to get rid of ghost, paying that much for Fisto, and resigning Fisto), but sure. Keep hand waving that as the lone mistake Fletcher has made.

Edit: weren't we told for years that trading Ghost and bringing in Risto were not related to each other?

Interesting you are able to lump them together for the sake of "Fletcher's lone mistake" though.

Don't forget mistake #4, paying more draft picks and more cap space for DeAngelo when we could have just kept Ghost in the first place

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I don't absolve him of blame, I just don't think he was the prime mover for the collapse of this franchise.
Nor do I think another GM would have made much of a difference as long as he was expected to win now with this talent base (starting in 2018).

He could have done a better job, but he still wasn't going to turn Bunnaman into a 2C or trade Voracek for anything more than another bad contract. Nor would anyone get much more for Giroux, because no one has (34 year old rental forward who was good, not elite).

To me, Hayes is about the same value as JVR, both can score, both are limited, both are overpaid, except when Hayes was signed the cap was expected to be a big higher (pre-COVID). Both reflected the delusion that this team was on the cusp of the top 8.

The Risto/Ghost sequence was his one bad mistake, the other moves were just shuffling pieces around.

So to me Fletcher is less important than Scott and the advisors, because replace him with Briere or an outside GM and tell them you want an aggressive reload and you'll have a new set of mistakes driven by attempting the impossible.

And that's why I'm so thankful they hired Torts, b/c by making it clear this team isn't close to being competitive, it makes it hard to sell an "aggressive reload" to the media, and hopefully the Comcast brass as well.

Saying that he only has one mistake is absolving him.

 

[Striiker]

Fletcher is very much the disease. Remove the advisors, and he's still wretched. That's all he has ever been. The problem is that there are other diseases who will see to it that they hire someone else as bad as him.

Fletcher is a lung tumor and the advisors are 20 packs a day cigarette smoking.

He’s the “effect” of a clear “cause”, but also his own massive problem and the one directly doing the damage and causing other problems.

 

[Striiker]

Also excited to see what Arizona gets in a potential Ghost trade and how the Fletcher shills attempt to defend Chucky after he’s further embarrassed by it.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

The Ghost/Fisto situation was three seperate mistakes (paying to get rid of ghost, paying that much for Fisto, and resigning Fisto), but sure. Keep hand waving that as the lone mistake Fletcher has made.

Edit: weren't we told for years that trading Ghost and bringing in Risto were not related to each other?

Interesting you are able to lump them together for the sake of "Fletcher's lone mistake" though.

memer when Yandle was a cheaper Ghost... hahaa...

i memer...

Also excited to see what Arizona gets in a potential Ghost trade and how the Fletcher shills attempt to defend Chucky after he’s further embarrassed by it.

"why didnt he play this good heere"..

haha...

you know its coming

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Also excited to see what Arizona gets in a potential Ghost trade and how the Fletcher shills attempt to defend Chucky after he’s further embarrassed by it.

He couldn’t be kept on the team as they had to cater to a lame duck HC.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Torts on Hayes: "I think he's reactive. He plays hockey. Tried to teach him low play, and what you have to do as a centre. I think its too much for him right now.....There are bad habits there, that are hard to change at this point in his career. We've tried."

Will be interesting to see what they are willing to add to attempt to offload the player.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Torts on Hayes: "I think he's reactive. He plays hockey. Tried to teach him low play, and what you have to do as a centre. I think its too much for him right now.....There are bad habits there, that are hard to change at this point in his career. We've tried."

Will be interesting to see what they are willing to add to attempt to offload the player.

If he can keep up his points, you hope that you can retain 50% for the next however long in a trade.

 

[FlyerNutter]

If he can keep up his points, you hope that you can retain 50% for the next however long in a trade.

I dont see him being moved without additions even with a smart GM. He's a 30 y old player coming off of significant injuries, never the best skater - in a league thats shifting more, and more to an emphasis on skating.

He's a third line player on a decent team. I personally wouldn't even consider touching him as an acquisition.

There is an element here that I think Torts will want him gone no matter what. Briere will likely cater to his coach.

 

[Striiker]

He couldn’t be kept on the team as they had to cater to a lame duck HC.

Plus they had no choice but to use that cap space and lineup spot on Ristolainen.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Plus they had no choice but to use that cap space and lineup spot on Ristolainen.

But they’re not related.

 

[Striiker]

But they’re not related.

Of course not.

Risto replaced Hagg. That’s how that works.

 

[BernieParent]

Torts on Hayes: "I think he's reactive. He plays hockey. Tried to teach him low play, and what you have to do as a centre. I think its too much for him right now.....There are bad habits there, that are hard to change at this point in his career. We've tried."

Will be interesting to see what they are willing to add to attempt to offload the player.

You can't teach an old Hayes new tricks.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I don't absolve him of blame, I just don't think he was the prime mover for the collapse of this franchise.
Nor do I think another GM would have made much of a difference as long as he was expected to win now with this talent base (starting in 2018).

He could have done a better job, but he still wasn't going to turn Bunnaman into a 2C or trade Voracek for anything more than another bad contract. Nor would anyone get much more for Giroux, because no one has (34 year old rental forward who was good, not elite).

To me, Hayes is about the same value as JVR, both can score, both are limited, both are overpaid, except when Hayes was signed the cap was expected to be a big higher (pre-COVID). Both reflected the delusion that this team was on the cusp of the top 8.

The Risto/Ghost sequence was his one bad mistake, the other moves were just shuffling pieces around.

So to me Fletcher is less important than Scott and the advisors, because replace him with Briere or an outside GM and tell them you want an aggressive reload and you'll have a new set of mistakes driven by attempting the impossible.

And that's why I'm so thankful they hired Torts, b/c by making it clear this team isn't close to being competitive, it makes it hard to sell an "aggressive reload" to the media, and hopefully the Comcast brass as well.

"I don't absolve him of blame" he says, before immediately absolving him of blame

 

[Deadpool8812]

Torts on Hayes: "I think he's reactive. He plays hockey. Tried to teach him low play, and what you have to do as a centre. I think its too much for him right now.....There are bad habits there, that are hard to change at this point in his career. We've tried."

Will be interesting to see what they are willing to add to attempt to offload the player.

Is that an actual quote? If so, it just further proves what a shit player Hayes is.

 

[deadhead]

"I don't absolve him of blame" he says, before immediately absolving him of blame

No, I think he did what he was told to do, win now. Which meant that when Patrick was damaged goods, get a center, when Ghost got steamrolled by the Penguins in the playoffs, get a legitimate 1st pair guy and so on . . .
And get a "name" HC.

Some were not the best moves, but other than Risto, none had a real impact.

It's isn't like another GM could have created a "miracle on ice," they simply didn't have the talent depth to compete with the big boys, and those touted prospects left by Hextall have turned out to be mostly busts. And if a GM did a better job, it would have been Hextall all over, make the POs twice instead of once and lose in the first round.

By the way, Hakstol is such an awful HC that he's got Seattle tied with Dallas for the second best record in the West, despite having to start Martin Jones b/c Grubauer is so washed up.
Top Forwards: Burakovsky, Weenberg, Schwartz, Beniers, Guorde, Eberle, Bjorkstrand, Tanev, McCann
Top D-men: Larsson, Dunn, Oleksiak, Schultz, Soucy, Borgen

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

No, I think he did what he was told to do, win now. Which meant that when Patrick was damaged goods, get a center, when Ghost got steamrolled by the Penguins in the playoffs, get a legitimate 1st pair guy and so on . . .
And get a "name" HC.

Some were not the best moves, but other than Risto, none had a real impact.

It's isn't like another GM could have created a "miracle on ice," they simply didn't have the talent depth to compete with the big boys, and those touted prospects left by Hextall have turned out to be mostly busts. And if a GM did a better job, it would have been Hextall all over, make the POs twice instead of once and lose in the first round.

By the way, Hakstol is such an awful HC that he's got Seattle tied with Dallas for the second best record in the West, despite having to start Martin Jones b/c Grubauer is so washed up.
Top Forwards: Burakovsky, Weenberg, Schwartz, Beniers, Guorde, Eberle, Bjorkstrand, Tanev, McCann
Top D-men: Larsson, Dunn, Oleksiak, Schultz, Soucy, Borgen

He didn’t win now so he did not do what he was told to do.

You are continuing to absolve him at every turn in multi paragraph form which is exactly what you were accused of.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, I think he did what he was told to do, win now. Which meant that when Patrick was damaged goods, get a center, when Ghost got steamrolled by the Penguins in the playoffs, get a legitimate 1st pair guy and so on . . .
And get a "name" HC.

Some were not the best moves, but other than Risto, none had a real impact.

It's isn't like another GM could have created a "miracle on ice," they simply didn't have the talent depth to compete with the big boys, and those touted prospects left by Hextall have turned out to be mostly busts. And if a GM did a better job, it would have been Hextall all over, make the POs twice instead of once and lose in the first round.

By the way, Hakstol is such an awful HC that he's got Seattle tied with Dallas for the second best record in the West, despite having to start Martin Jones b/c Grubauer is so washed up.
Top Forwards: Burakovsky, Weenberg, Schwartz, Beniers, Guorde, Eberle, Bjorkstrand, Tanev, McCann
Top D-men: Larsson, Dunn, Oleksiak, Schultz, Soucy, Borgen

He didn't do what he was told to do, then. If he was told to win now, he did the exact opposite of that. He failed. That is the worst defense possible; the idea that because he was told to make the team good, him making it exquisitely awful is OK. How the hell do you figure that's the case?

Ghost didn't get steamrolled in those playoffs. I already debunked that in detail. He missed on every move he has made. Every single one. He has not had a single successful move. There is no defending him. Give up. It's humiliating.

Hint: The key to not absolving him of blame is to stop absolving him of blame for every single thing he's done.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Is that an actual quote? If so, it just further proves what a shit player Hayes is.

Pregame today

 

[landsbergfan]

The joy it brings me to see, after all the talk about compete, grit, playing the right way, defense, etc, the flyers as one of the closest teams to "go down easy"

 

[flyersnorth]

No, I think he did what he was told to do, win now. Which meant that when Patrick was damaged goods, get a center, when Ghost got steamrolled by the Penguins in the playoffs, get a legitimate 1st pair guy and so on . . .
And get a "name" HC.

Some were not the best moves, but other than Risto, none had a real impact.

Yes, they have had a real impact. The impact has been not winning. Not now. Not ever under Fletcher. In fact, he has made the team worse.

So by that metric, he has failed to "win now."

And he has failed to "win now" because of the moves he *did* make. He believed those moves would make the team better.

Clearly, they have not.

The Flyers didn't need a "miracle on ice," they needed a competent general manager.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[BiggE]

The other GMs in Philly are praying that Cuck never gets fired. He makes them all look even better by comparison.

 

[kudymen]

"I don't absolve him of blame" he says, before immediately absolving him of blame

"I don't absolve him of blame"
Next paragraph
"Yes he could have done a better job, but"

Lolz